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-   -   Other: The Cap, The Full and the Half Not's (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1240941)

Ripper 08-02-2012 09:22 PM

The Cap, The Full and the Half Not's
 
For the Capgeek followers this is basically a thread for the top 6 and the bottom 6 in relation to cap ceiling and cap floor. If the cap were a cup it would be overflowing for Boston and Minny and turned almost upside down for the Isles and Coyotes.

So let's explore the cap situations of the top six and bottom six keeping in mind that the cap levels for 2012-13 are $54,000,000 -$70,000,000

The Top 6
1. Boston - No Space but have Tim Thomas (sitting out a year and potentially waived NTC for cap relief purposes to bottom 6 and Tukka Rask unwilling to sign an extension, goaltending is an issue. Thomas cap hit is $5,000,000

2. Minnesota - No Space
3. Calgary - No Space (25 Non roster players and 23 Roster players for 48 of 50 allowable signed contracts. They have 3.5 in cap space but also have 3.1 in bonuses. The only movement maybe Bowwmeester at 2 years 6.68 cap

4. Philadelphia - No Space they do have Pronger at 5M which could allow for some space but they also have 23 on the roster and 25 on Non Roster leaving only 2 contracts available.
5. Vancouver - 2.3M in Cap Space but have Luongo at 5.33M their roster has 23 but only 21 Non-Roster spots so prospect pool extremely low. The fix would seem to be deal Luongo for 3-4 prospects and have 7.7M for say Doan or trade dead-line addition

6. San Jose - Possibly in the worst spot of the top 6, they have only 20 roster players under contract and have 23 Non Roster players signed for 43 of 50 signed contracts. They need 2 forwards to replace Moore and Winchester and possibly a backup goalie. They need the 3 players and have 5M in space. Available prospects are D. Matt Tennyson 2yrs @1.175M and F. Freddie Hamilton 3 x 870K

Special consideration in the top 6 may be Toronto and Aneheim with 3 roster spots open and plenty of prospects and cap space to make deals to the top 6 or better the bottom 6 who all need to make up roster positions and Cap space to floor ratio


The Bottom 6
Starting from the bottom of the Cup wishers are:
1. Phoenix - about 8M shy of the cap floor, no owner and no Shane Doan under contract top help the situation. They are in serious trouble as they also have 22 players under contract with 23 Non-Roster players. The 22 players are filled with weak contracts as they really need 2 NHL ready Defensemen and 1 Forward at least.
The Coyotes can trade from a heavy prospect pool including some of the following.
D. O.E Larsson 1.75 on Roster 1 yr, Michael Stone D on roster EL 1.315M, NON Roster players are: D. Brandon Gormley EL 3 Yrs 1.315, D. Conner Murphy EL 3 yrs 1.107M, G Mark Visentin EL 3 YR 870K amnd F. Brett Hextall EL 875K

2. New York Isles - 5.2 M short of the floor which includes 2M in bonus's.
The Wang Group are in the worst shape regarding prospects as all of theirs' are already in the NHL, thus the low payroll. They only have 19players and need to get to the 23 man roster and have only 22 on the Non Roster so 41 contracts in total.
They need at least 4 players before season starts, 2-3 defense and 2 forwards and what's unbelieveably dumb on the part of Snow and more so Boyes' agent is knowing this and they still only signed Brad Boyes to 1M cap hit?
They do have the following prospects but need NHL ready players so maybe an smart GM could pick up one or two of: F. Ryan Strome 3 x EL 1.744, Mike Halmo 3 x 1.775, F. Brock Nelson 3x 2.825 D. Calvin deHann 2 x 1.470 ot G. Anders Nilsson at 2 x 1.750

3. Ottawa - 20 roster players but 30 Non-roster. they are full at 50 contracts and with bonuses are 3.2 M short of the Cap floor. They need to move prospects for 1 D-man and 2 bottom 6 forwards:
Propsects available are F. Matt Puempel 3 x 1.106, F. Mike Zibanejad 3 x 1.744, F. Mark Stone 3 x 873K and Goalies Robin Lerner 2 x 870K and Stefan Noesen 3 x 1.106
Best bet here would be to work with Vancouver and solve some issues for both teams.
I'll broker the talks

4. Winnipeg - 21 roster spots and league low 17 Non-Rosters spots ( they have worked the AHL team as a hybrid using the AHL teams payroll signing players directly to AHL deals, however they do need prospects. Right now only Mark Scheifele at 3 x 1.594 may be NHL ready. They are 2M under the floor but it does seem imminent that Kane will be signed for close to 5.5M and likely Spencer Machacek as well and that will fill the roster and meet floor demands. Watch for the Jets to make deals next off-season

5/6. Dallas/St.Louis both at the floor with bonus's making them eke over, I guess it's no wonder the Stars signed Jagr...hello NYI

Nashville and NYR also need 2 players to hit the roster limit so the Month of August could be interesting.

What moves do you think that the top 6 vs bottom 6 should make and what about the Leafs, Aneheim and SJ still needing 3 players to hit the roster mins.

Just when you thought it was winding down it looks as though these teams with the Cup in mind, better start with a glass half full approach.

THOUGHTS?

check capgeek.com for the latest info


Regards
Ripper


Cap: Apply 2012-13 Cap Space
Team Payroll Bonuses Cap Space Roster

Boston Bruins $69,922,143 $3,912,500 $277,857 23
Minnesota Wild $68,848,867 $1,377,500 $1,351,133 23
Vancouver Canucks $67,768,333 $0 $2,431,667 23
Calgary Flames $66,668,332 $3,105,000 $3,531,668 23
Philadelphia Flyers $66,643,373 $2,705,000 $3,556,627 23
San Jose Sharks $64,629,167 $0 $5,570,833 20
Montreal Canadiens $63,897,976 $300,000 $6,302,024 23
Tampa Bay Lightning $63,246,916 $750,000 $6,953,084 23
Edmonton Oilers $62,933,333 $11,962,500 $7,266,667 24
Chicago Blackhawks $62,445,128 $587,500 $7,754,872 23
Los Angeles Kings $62,320,227 $130,000 $7,879,773 24
Buffalo Sabres $61,542,023 $850,000 $8,657,977 23
Toronto Maple Leafs $61,153,333 $212,500 $9,046,667 20
Pittsburgh Penguins $60,263,333 $0 $9,936,667 22
Washington Capitals $59,627,905 $240,000 $10,572,095 23
New York Rangers $58,508,334 $1,250,000 $11,691,666 21
Columbus Blue Jackets $57,600,476 $5,125,000 $12,599,524 23
Carolina Hurricanes $57,282,500 $560,000 $12,917,500 22
Detroit Red Wings $57,142,045 $462,500 $13,057,955 23
New Jersey Devils $56,083,333 $262,500 $14,116,667 22
Anaheim Ducks $54,064,167 $1,440,000 $16,135,833 20
Colorado Avalanche $54,058,333 $2,860,000 $16,141,667 22
Florida Panthers $53,740,333 $2,300,000 $16,459,667 22
Nashville Predators $53,711,310 $1,135,000 $16,488,690 21
St. Louis Blues $53,649,999 $4,750,000 $16,550,001 23
Dallas Stars $53,638,611 $485,000 $16,561,389 24
Winnipeg Jets $51,418,959 $912,500 $18,781,042 21
Ottawa Senators $50,208,333 $1,175,000 $19,991,667 20
New York Islanders $47,772,333 $2,035,000 $22,427,667 19
Phoenix Coyotes $44,836,583 $1,812,500 $25,363,417 22

Mr Misty 08-02-2012 09:35 PM

Um Dallas has Jamie Benn left to sign, maybe his 5-6 million contract will push them higher?

Your Jagr comment is pure stupidity. Get a clue about the Stars, or don't post as though you are an expert on all 30 teams.

Crafton 08-02-2012 09:37 PM

are you honestly suggesting that teams will trade the likes of OEL, Strome and Zibanejad to reach the capfloor?

Zajacs Bowl Cut 08-02-2012 09:40 PM

had no idea Calgary was that close the cap

damn

LatvianTwist 08-02-2012 09:46 PM

Lol these ideas of reaching the floor are terrible, and there's already a thread like this:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1237565

SSoH 08-02-2012 09:48 PM

Hahaha, you say the Yotes need atleast 2 NHL ready dmen? No you're wrong in fact we need to move some defense.

Too think you would suggest moving the likes of OEL to reach the floor is laughable.

MAK19 08-02-2012 09:49 PM

Ottawa may have 20 1-way contracts, but at this point one D and one F on a two-way will make it... meaning 28 non-roster contracts according to your count. Also, Puempel and Noesen's contracts will slide and don't count. They're fine in this regard.

As for getting to the floor... this CBA is done, it's meaningless.

They certainly do NOT need 2 bottom 6 forwards. But you're right they need a #1 D.

flameaholic 08-02-2012 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut (Post 53235943)
had no idea Calgary was that close the cap

damn

That's with everybody signed, and includes Matt Stajan ($3.5 million cap hit) and Anton Babchuk ($2.5 million cap hit) who may or may not make the opening day roster.

Flames could conceivably be almost $10 million under the cap.

Arrch 08-02-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

They need the 3 players and have 5M in space.
I think we can manage 3 bottom-6 players for under $5.5M considering one of those will be James Sheppard when he signs he QO, leaving us with $4.8M to spend on two third liners.
Quote:

They need 2 forwards to replace Moore and Winchester and possibly a backup goalie.
What!?

MAK19 08-02-2012 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flameaholic (Post 53236551)
That's with everybody signed, and includes Matt Stajan ($3.5 million cap hit) and Anton Babchuk ($2.5 million cap hit) who may or may not make the opening day roster.

Flames could conceivably be almost $10 million under the cap.

while still spending all that dough as a bottom feeder

Ishad 08-02-2012 10:05 PM

Things are going to get interesting if the cap drops 10 million.

Mr Misty 08-02-2012 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatvianTwist (Post 53236129)
Lol these ideas of reaching the floor are terrible, and there's already a thread like this:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1237565

Shameless plug :sarcasm:

flameaholic 08-02-2012 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows (Post 53236763)
while still spending all that dough as a bottom feeder

Ottawa finished 2 points ahead of the Flames last season (bet you didn't know that) so if we're a "bottom feeder" then so are you. :sarcasm:

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 08-02-2012 10:11 PM

cap analysis is hard to do without really getting into the heart of things and ripping it apart

for boston.. my fav team... the numbers are very misleading

thomas is not going to be back.. he can stay around if hes not a cap problem... there is no need to bow down to him and trade him for crap cause he is not a cap problem right now. when he refuses to report he will get suspended. it will count against the cap but there is no reason right now to worry about that because we are under the cap...

and thats with savard counting... he is an LTIR waiting to happen. the second we run into any cap problems we use his 4 mill to deal with them

and thats with quite a few guys on bonus contracts... we got around 4 mill in bonus money that is 'soft cap hit' and ultimately not all of it will even be earnt.

so our current 23 man roster at capgeek can seem like it doesnt have much wiggle room.. or is tight to the cap, but in reality we have a ton of wiggle room and our real dollars going to our 21 man roster is more like 61-62 mill right now.

add in a couple mill for the typical ahl callups and our final dollar amount spent on players this season will come in wll under 65 mill

next year we got 4 guys due raises that are key players.. but a couple guys with expiring contracts that probably dont figure into long term plans... and a couple kids likely ready to make the big roster... so chances are next year's cap hit looks about he same as this years.

the savard thing... will always add 4 mill to the number but it wont end up actually screwing us over cause its all ltir money. you have to sort of not count it cause it sort of doesnt count a far as what the teams options are reguarding how much they spend at or near the 'cap limit'

Grant 08-02-2012 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flameaholic (Post 53236867)
Ottawa finished 2 points ahead of the Flames last season (bet you didn't know that) so if we're a "bottom feeder" then so are you. :sarcasm:

Toronto says hi! :laugh:

flameaholic 08-02-2012 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant (Post 53237045)
Toronto says hi! :laugh:

Toronto was a lottery team.

Ripper 08-02-2012 10:18 PM

I can appreciate some of the reactions, the Dallas comment on Jagr wasn't meant to hurt your feelings but actually say that Dallas was smart in adding Jagr while NYI not so much for signing Boyes for only 1M, actuallly his agent for not getting 2M.
The Flames are in trouble and I don't care what any Flame fan says, numbers don't lie.
As for the rest of you, I guess we will see what happens, I was only breaking down the numbers and not suggesting any team trade any of their players or prospects but the prospects are what they are and the Cap is what it is. Until it changes then, the GM's have what they have to deal with and will need to make moves based on what they have to meet roster demands.
The Coyotes are in trouble, that's not Earth shattering nor a secret, so maybe some prospects should be traded to get 'some' talent!
The Isles need help with vets and they also need some cap pick up, I think that they have been over-looked and have great prospects so we'll watch that one.

The Leafs, Ducks and NYR will have something to say about all this before training camps begin in Sept. the rest of you can have a glass of milk and dream on!

flameaholic 08-02-2012 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 53237185)
The Flames are in trouble and I don't care what any Flame fan says, numbers don't lie.

How so? We're $3.5 million under the cap with everybody signed.

TheHudlinator 08-02-2012 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 53237185)
The Flames are in trouble and I don't care what any Flame fan says, numbers don't lie.

In terms of cap? There is no trouble we are under the cap with several players on the roster that won't make opening day and next year we have 22 million in cap space based on a 70 million cap.

In terms of play? That remains to be seen but I am optimistic.

Ripper 08-02-2012 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flameaholic (Post 53236867)
Ottawa finished 2 points ahead of the Flames last season (bet you didn't know that) so if we're a "bottom feeder" then so are you. :sarcasm:

Why so sensitive, this isn't about the standings but cap, and believe me, the new cap isn't going up so Flames are in trouble but Sens also need to spend,I honestly didn't know that they were so low in cap spending especially after all the hoopla that Melnyck made over the Karlsson contract. They could sign him just for the money they get in box sales!

Iamok 08-02-2012 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 53235343)

3. Ottawa - 20 roster players but 30 Non-roster. they are full at 50 contracts and with bonuses are 3.2 M short of the Cap floor. They need to move prospects for 1 D-man and 2 bottom 6 forwards:
Propsects available are F. Matt Puempel 3 x 1.106, F. Mike Zibanejad 3 x 1.744, F. Mark Stone 3 x 873K and Goalies Robin Lerner 2 x 870K and Stefan Noesen 3 x 1.106
Best bet here would be to work with Vancouver and solve some issues for both teams.
I'll broker the talks

What the hell? What happened to our Norris trophy winner? Also, if you knew anything about the Sens, it's that we have a plethora of bottom 6 guys.

Ripper 08-02-2012 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flameaholic (Post 53237401)
How so? We're $3.5 million under the cap with everybody signed.

okay,, so roll the 3.1 M in bonus to next year, and who knows what next years CBA will bring, right?

TheHudlinator 08-02-2012 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripper (Post 53237883)
okay,, so roll the 3.1 M in bonus to next year, and who knows what next years CBA will bring, right?

Unless the cap drops 19 million it won't matter as we have 22 million free next year.

Ripper 08-02-2012 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan (Post 53236945)
cap analysis is hard to do without really getting into the heart of things and ripping it apart

for boston.. my fav team... the numbers are very misleading

thomas is not going to be back.. he can stay around if hes not a cap problem... there is no need to bow down to him and trade him for crap cause he is not a cap problem right now. when he refuses to report he will get suspended. it will count against the cap but there is no reason right now to worry about that because we are under the cap...

and thats with savard counting... he is an LTIR waiting to happen. the second we run into any cap problems we use his 4 mill to deal with them

and thats with quite a few guys on bonus contracts... we got around 4 mill in bonus money that is 'soft cap hit' and ultimately not all of it will even be earnt.

so our current 23 man roster at capgeek can seem like it doesnt have much wiggle room.. or is tight to the cap, but in reality we have a ton of wiggle room and our real dollars going to our 21 man roster is more like 61-62 mill right now.

add in a couple mill for the typical ahl callups and our final dollar amount spent on players this season will come in wll under 65 mill

next year we got 4 guys due raises that are key players.. but a couple guys with expiring contracts that probably dont figure into long term plans... and a couple kids likely ready to make the big roster... so chances are next year's cap hit looks about he same as this years.

the savard thing... will always add 4 mill to the number but it wont end up actually screwing us over cause its all ltir money. you have to sort of not count it cause it sort of doesnt count a far as what the teams options are reguarding how much they spend at or near the 'cap limit'

OMG. are you telling me that your patriotic goalie hasn't messed with your team, I think that the goalie situation has undone everything that the Leafs tried to do to make the Bruins an original 6 power broker and TV giant. Savard on Long Term or retiremnet aside, I am just saying that suddenly the Bruins are against the cap and need to make moves, you may not like it but the best thing would be to tarde Thomas' rights to a cap deficient team and look to the trade dead-line to save their season and potential signing issue with Rask.

Ripper 08-02-2012 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGleninator (Post 53237925)
Unless the cap drops 19 million it won't matter as we have 22 million free next year.

Not talking next year. talking this year


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