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-   -   Proposal: Two Ottawa trades, Oilers & Panthers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1241143)

dan1el 08-03-2012 12:00 PM

Two Ottawa trades, Oilers & Panthers
 
These are my first proposals. I hope I'm close but don't flame too hard if I'm way off.

Two trades that I think could make the Sens much better. I'll start with the Edmonton trade because I think it's more likely to happen;

:edmonton get:
Zach Smith, C
Ben Bishop, G
Mark Borowiecki, D
2013 4th round pick

:sens get:
Ales Hemsky, W
Sam Gagner, C

-The Oilers get a reliable, young, 6'7 goaltender in Ben Bishop, who can split work with Dubnyk but is a better option in the long-run.
-Zach Smith adds toughness and a decent amount of goal-scoring. He was on pace for 20 goals but slowed down about half-way through the season, he can also hit, grind and kill penalties.
-Mark Borowiecki is our best defensive prospect outside of Ceci and has solid top 4 upside. He looked very good in his two games last year. He's ready to step in now if need be.

Meanwhile the Sens build on their centre depth and get a solid top-6 winger. Robin Lehner is ready to step in as Andy's backup on the big team.

I think that trade is pretty good in value and helps both teams. The Panthers one, I think I may be a little off in value, but who knows.

:panthers get:
Marc Methot, D
Colin Greening, W
Matt Puempel, W
Right to swap firsts in 2013 (conditional 3rd if they choose to retain their own pick)

:sens get:
Erik Gudbranson

Another big, powerful, up-and-coming defender for the Sens could help our top 4 a lot in the future.

-Marc Methot can play anywhere in the top 4 immediately for the Panthers.
-Colin Greening had a very good rookie year with 17 goals and 20 assists. He's not very skilled (that's being generous, his hands are rocks), but he's really fast and isn't afraid to hit. He can also kill penalties.
-Matt Puempel is a very talented winger prospect (taken 24th overall in 2011). I didn't want to add him, because I still think he has 20-25 goal upside but we have a great forward prospect pool and I think we can afford to give him up.
-The first/conditional third thing was added because I do think the Panthers will finish higher then us, especially because they're getting more immediate help. If that's the case, they get the higher out of our two firsts.

I'm not sure how untouchable Gudbranson is, so sorry to Panthers fans if I'm under-valuing him. I think both teams could gain from this deal.

Thoughts?

Kershaw 08-03-2012 12:01 PM

Seems like quantity for quality.

Confound 08-03-2012 12:02 PM

I think the Oilers say no, not sure about FLA. They already have enough forwards as is, not sure why they would trade one of their best up-incoming d-men for a bunch of forwards they don't need and an aging d-man.

7even 08-03-2012 12:04 PM

Yeah for Gudbranson I feel like Silfverberg or Zibanejad has to be headed back for Florida to consider.

ShootIt 08-03-2012 12:09 PM

Nope

SpezDispenser 08-03-2012 12:09 PM

Sometimes you can't put a price on that hunger and drive to not only succeed, but to do anything to win. Smith and Boroweicki are examples of that, while Bishop has a ton of talent.

I wouldn't do the Edmonton deal.

Edit: wouldn't do either deal. Methot was brought in to solidify a shaky defence in our own zone, and as much as I like Gudbranson, he's not the answer this year, nor is trading Greening a smart move.

Now if it's Bogosian, I'm in.

Marvelous Manked 08-03-2012 12:14 PM

God the last thing the Sens need are Hemsky and Gagner.

Don't be offended oil fans I'm not commenting on the value, but this certainly is not where we want to go.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of Gufbranson. I think he'll be a #3 or 4 Defenceman, I've watched him play since bantam.

These proposals are both absolutely horrifying for our team.

F-

s7ark 08-03-2012 12:15 PM

Another handful of nickels for a quarter proposal. These rarely go over well.

No from Edmonton. I wouldn't trade either of Gagner or Hemsky for that package.

SpezDispenser 08-03-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7ark (Post 53250451)
Another handful of nickels for a quarter proposal. These rarely go over well.

No from Edmonton. I wouldn't trade either of Gagner or Hemsky for that package.



You don't know enough about Smith, Borowiecki and Bishop then.

Gobo 08-03-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpezDispenser (Post 53250581)
You don't know enough about Smith, Borowiecki and Bishop then.

Smith's at best a 3C. Borowiecki is maybe a top-4 D in 2 years. Bishop isn't any better than Dubnyk.

And you want Gagner, who is a 2C albeit small, and Hemsky who is a definite top-six winger albeit injury prone.

No thanks.

SpezDispenser 08-03-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobo (Post 53250631)
Smith's at best a 3C. Borowiecki is maybe a top-4 D in 2 years. Bishop isn't any better than Dubnyk.

And you want Gagner, who is a 2C albeit small, and Hemsky who is a definite top-six winger albeit injury prone.

No thanks.



He said he wouldn't do Hemsky OR Gagner for that package, nevermind that neither Hemsky or especially Gagner don't fit what Ottawa's going for.

notloilersfan 08-03-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpezDispenser (Post 53250581)
You don't know enough about Smith, Borowiecki and Bishop then.

None of those players guarantee an upgrade over players the Oilers already have. The potential is there, but we can't trade away quality (and create a hole) if there is no guarantee of filling one.

I won't talk about value, and I don't know enough about Ottawa's needs, but based on the Oilers needs, it's a bad trade.

Oilers are at the point of needing to trade quantity for quality, and not the other way around.

Sensation 08-03-2012 12:28 PM

Wouldn't do the Edmonton trade. We already have Turris as our 2C, why bring in Gagner to bump one of them down to the third line when Smith already fills that role? Doesn't make sense to me.

Won't comment on the Florida trade as I don't know enough about Gudbranson.

goosecrosby 08-03-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7even (Post 53250155)
Yeah for Gudbranson I feel like Silfverberg or Zibanejad has to be headed back for Florida to consider.

This. Panthers need scoring so IF they moved Gudbranson, a player of his quality would have to be in return

SpezDispenser 08-03-2012 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notloilersfan (Post 53250715)
None of those players guarantee an upgrade over players the Oilers already have. The potential is there, but we can't trade away quality (and create a hole) if there is no guarantee of filling one.

I won't talk about value, and I don't know enough about Ottawa's needs, but based on the Oilers needs, it's a bad trade.

Oilers are at the point of needing to trade quantity for quality, and not the other way around.

I think it's a bad fit for both teams to be honest. Z.Smith is very important to the Sens. He fills the need of a 3rd line C who plays the game hard and with physicality and grit. After losing Carkner and Konopka, we can't afford to lose any more big guys who love to play like that and can drop the gloves.

Borowiecki is a piece that I can understand the Oilers don't need, but he's very valuable to Ottawa in terms of a big, shutdown D who's proud to be playing in his hometown.

Again, neither deal benefits either team IMO.

Benny FTW 08-03-2012 12:36 PM

Nope & Nope

flapanthersfan 08-03-2012 12:44 PM

the florida deal is laughably terrible. how about matthias, ellerby and mcfarland for zibenejad? scraps for a potential star deals dont work.

edmonton deal doesnt look much better.

Petro Points 08-03-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flapanthersfan (Post 53251477)
the florida deal is laughably terrible. how about matthias, ellerby and mcfarland for zibenejad? scraps for a potential star deals dont work.

edmonton deal doesnt look much better.

but cant you see EDM gets a 4th rounder... Those 4th rounders even out every proposal. :)
On a sane note.. trading both Hemsky and Gagner would bump up Smyth and Horcoff into top6. Not sure EDM wants to go there again especially if the other 2nd liner is a rookie in Yakupov.

ShootIt 08-03-2012 01:03 PM

Does Ottawa really need Gudbranson? I thought they had a nice pool of NHL ready/close to ready defensemen.

jumptheshark 08-03-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7even (Post 53250155)
Yeah for Gudbranson I feel like Silfverberg or Zibanejad has to be headed back for Florida to consider.

As an oiler fan I won't comment on that deal. But sens need to add for the second. It is quantity for quality

TrueGrit 08-03-2012 01:25 PM

I wouldn't touch the Edmonton deal. Two soft, offensive perimeter players while shipping out our bottom 6 and defensive grit for the future.

I doubt Florida accepts the second deal (I'm not sold on Gudbranson anyways)

CupofOil 08-03-2012 01:30 PM

With all due respect to the OP, those trades are pretty bad valuewise for the Oilers and Panthers.
The Oilers give up the 2 best players in the trade (two top 6 players) for a backup goalie, a 3rd line player and a defensive prospect who wouldn't really add anything that the Oilers don't already have and the Panthers give up the best asset by far in that deal.
The Sens will need to part with Zibanejad then add if they want Gudbranson.

WeridAl 08-03-2012 01:33 PM

Like Zack Smith, but he's a 3rd/4th line C at best and don't want to see Horcoff as a 2nd line C again. If the Oilers were going to trade Gagner, they would need a RHC to replace him.

Ben Bishop, is not better then Devan Dubynk or Tyler Bunz and it would be debatable who is better between him and Roy. Doesn't help the Oilers, if anything gives them problems.

Mark Borowiecki wouldn't crack the Oilers top 6 prospective D, why would the Oilers want him.

A bottom 6 player and a couple of B prospects for 2 top 6 players, talk about giving the Oilers the SHAFT.

Erik Gudbranson will not being moved any time soon and will take a lot more then what is being offered, brutal.

MessierII 08-03-2012 01:43 PM

Reasonable Oiler proposal although the pot would have to be sweetened. The pick would have to be at least a 2nd. I think I'd rather wait till the deadline when Hemsky and Gagner's values skyrocket.

SpezDispenser 08-03-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootIt (Post 53252035)
Does Ottawa really need Gudbranson? I thought they had a nice pool of NHL ready/close to ready defensemen.

I don't really think we do personally. I think we need a guy who is a hybrid of offence and defence. I'm a big fan of Bogosian - although I know he's not moving. He's the kind of D-man we need. That said, we literally just drafted Ceci who'll be a strong offensive D-man/puck mover, so maybe we need nothing at all (except for a highly talented scoring winger, but who doesn't...)


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