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Reaper45 01-16-2005 08:20 PM

Kings proposals
 
Since this board is flooded with Washington, Pittsburgh, Montreal and Ottawa proposals, I'm curious to see some proposals involving the L.A. Kings. Remember that the Kings are going through a youth movement with very few vets, but the ones that they do have are of decent value.

Here's my stab at one.

To Buf: Aaron Miller and 4th round pick.
To L.A.: Jeff Jillson and Ales Kotalik.

Flame away.

Darth Milbury 01-16-2005 08:37 PM

Buffalo would never eat Miller's contract.

Reaper45 01-16-2005 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Buffalo would never eat Miller's contract.

What if the Kings ate some?

HuskyFlames 01-16-2005 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45
What if the Kings ate some?

Then they would both be full.....

willie 01-16-2005 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Buffalo would never eat Miller's contract.

It might be more digestable after the CBA is resolved and we have some rollback in player's salaries. I think he is being paid something like 7 million over two more years which is high, but not ludicriously so. (especially if Zhitnik isn't resigned)

Value-wise, though, I have serious doubts about whether Buffalo is willing to deal away two solid young assets for a guy like Miller. (he would certainly help out in Buffalo but their Cup aspirations are still a few years off)

Reaper45 01-16-2005 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Then they would both be full.....

Everyone's a comedian.

Reaper45 01-16-2005 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willie

Value-wise, though, I have serious doubts about whether Buffalo is willing to deal away two solid young assets for a guy like Miller. (he would certainly help out in Buffalo but their Cup aspirations are still a few years off)

Yeah, I didn't think it would be all that close, but I just wanted to see what kind of a response it would get for it's value.

Darth Milbury 01-16-2005 09:55 PM

I could be wrong, but even if there is a rollback, I don't see the Sabres taking Miller's salary. He is still going to be very expensive relative to his peers, especially for a non-elite kind of guy.

I personally think the Kings only real chance to move Miller is at the next deadline (whenever that happens). Contenders could always use guys like him in the playoffs.

But, either way, I don't see the Sabres 1) Giving up young talent for Miller, 2) Paying his contract (even if the Kings eat some), 3) Having a lot of interest in Miller to start.

IMO, Miller would be a great pickup for a teams like Ottawa, NJ, Col. He'd be a great vet support guy for a team that anticipates a long grinding battle in the playoffs.

But, again, this is just my opinion. I am not claiming any inside knowledge and I could be completely wrong.

Reaper45 01-16-2005 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I could be wrong, but even if there is a rollback, I don't see the Sabres taking Miller's salary. He is still going to be very expensive relative to his peers, especially for a non-elite kind of guy.

I personally think the Kings only real chance to move Miller is at the next deadline (whenever that happens). Contenders could always use guys like him in the playoffs.

But, either way, I don't see the Sabres 1) Giving up young talent for Miller, 2) Paying his contract (even if the Kings eat some), 3) Having a lot of interest in Miller to start.

IMO, Miller would be a great pickup for a teams like Ottawa, NJ, Col. He'd be a great vet support guy for a team that anticipates a long grinding battle in the playoffs.

But, again, this is just my opinion. I am not claiming any inside knowledge and I could be completely wrong.

Yeah that sounds more logical.

King'sPawn 01-17-2005 12:29 AM

I think we're stuck with Miller until the end of his contract. He's not nearly healthy enough to warrant even half his contract. Plus, when he did return, he played pretty poorly.

Miller has very little value right now, I'm sorry to say.

Evil Sather 01-17-2005 12:02 PM

Buffalo isn't close enough to the playoffs to make that reasonable, plus dealing off any defensemen just won't happen.

However, something around Grebeshnekov or Gleason would be rather attractive to the Sabres. Buffalo seems to have an abundance of youngish scorers so one or two of them (Roy, Paille, Dumont, Afinogenov, Pyatt, Kotalik) for either Grebby or Gleason and something else (a pick?) doesn't seem unreasonable. LA seems quite short on NHL forward talent (DEREK ARMSTRONG in a top 6 role? Sheesh.)

Fat Elvis 01-17-2005 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Buffalo isn't close enough to the playoffs to make that reasonable, plus dealing off any defensemen just won't happen.

However, something around Grebeshnekov or Gleason would be rather attractive to the Sabres. Buffalo seems to have an abundance of youngish scorers so one or two of them (Roy, Paille, Dumont, Afinogenov, Pyatt, Kotalik) for either Grebby or Gleason and something else (a pick?) doesn't seem unreasonable. LA seems quite short on NHL forward talent (DEREK ARMSTRONG in a top 6 role? Sheesh.)

Not sure I agree with your observation on the Kings. They are in a similar position as Buffalo in that we don't have a lot of depth at D either. We have a decent crop of youngsters ready to make a go at it on offence. I'd like to have some of those forwards you mentioned, but not at the cost of giving up 1 of our 2 nhl ready young dmen. I think you're also underestimating their worth imo when you asked for them and a pick. Injuries put Army in the top 6 role and he didn't do too bad, not to say he belongs there. I think both our teams could add, maybe just not from each other imo.

Evil Sather 01-17-2005 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING ELVI
Not sure I agree with your observation on the Kings. They are in a similar position as Buffalo in that we don't have a lot of depth at D either. We have a decent crop of youngsters ready to make a go at it on offence. I'd like to have some of those forwards you mentioned, but not at the cost of giving up 1 of our 2 nhl ready young dmen. I think you're also underestimating their worth imo when you asked for them and a pick. Injuries put Army in the top 6 role and he didn't do too bad, not to say he belongs there. I think both our teams could add, maybe just not from each other imo.

Perhaps, but there is a world of difference between guys like Tambellini (spelling?) and guys like Dumont and Kotalik, guys with 2, 3, 4 years of NHL experience, and still in their prime years (25-29) who can score 20+ goals, and have proven it. I don't doubt you guys need D help, you're probably not a great match with Buffalo, but say Kotalik and Pyatt, or Dumont and Roy for Grebby + is more than fair to you, and likely an overpayment by Buffalo, but they can afford it as they are dealing from such a position of abundance.

Fat Elvis 01-17-2005 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Sather
Perhaps, but there is a world of difference between guys like Tambellini (spelling?) and guys like Dumont and Kotalik, guys with 2, 3, 4 years of NHL experience, and still in their prime years (25-29) who can score 20+ goals, and have proven it. I don't doubt you guys need D help, you're probably not a great match with Buffalo, but say Kotalik and Pyatt, or Dumont and Roy for Grebby + is more than fair to you, and likely an overpayment by Buffalo, but they can afford it as they are dealing from such a position of abundance.

Fair enough, but the Kings would move some of their vets before they touched Grebs or Gleason. The Kings may have a couple of 2nd round picks if they don't resign Steckel. Would you look at a 2nd rounder for one of those guys? What are their values in terms of picks, or do you need a player in return?

Ziggy Stardust 01-17-2005 05:52 PM

Not sure what Ottawa's plans are with their blueline (is Pothier going to be a regular in their top 6... or a 7th dman?)... but I think they might be a team who would be very interested in a defenseman like Aaron Miller.
All of Ottawa's defenders are left hand shots (save for Pothier), and adding him to their top 6 really gives Ottawa one of, if not, the best bluelines in the Eastern conference (or the NHL for that matter).

The Senators seem to be pretty well off with goaltenders (Hasek, Prusek, Emery, Thompson, Glass) and centers... or forwards who can play center (Spezza, Smolinski, White, Fischer, Vermette).
One weakness within the Senators lineup up front is the lack of a natural LW, since Alfredsson, Hossa and Havlat like to play on the right side. And even with Hossa or Havlat playing the LW, the Sens need a second winger who can fill the top 2 lines, and give the Sens a deeper lineup with Schaefer and Varada filling up the 3-4 LW spots.

My question or proposal to Senators fans... Aaron Miller, Martin Straka (half of his salary is already paid off by the Penguins), and Esa Pirnes (he can play LW or C and is a decent penalty killer and two-way forward with good speed).

The Kings would receive Ray Emery, one of Antoine Vermette or Mike Fischer (whoever the Senators are more willing to deal) and a prospect to be named later (I'd be happy with Eaves or Bochenski or Kaigorodov ;) ).

After this trade I think the Sens could stand to be a powerhouse in the NHL. Take a look at the lineup after the trade...

Straka-Spezza-Hossa
Havlat-White-Alfredsson
Schaefer-Smolinski-Varada
Pirnes-Fischer/Vermette (pending on who the Sens will send to LA)-Neil

Their top 6 on D will be Redden-Chara-Phillips-de Vries-Volchenkov-Miller and Pothier as the 7th dman.


The Kings lineup with this trade will include...

Frolov-Conroy-Cammalleri
Robitaille-Armstrong-Klatt
Avery-Belanger-Kostopoulos
Cowan-Fischer or Vermette (again, pending on who the Kings receive)-Brown

The Kings top 6 on D would be Norstrom-Visnovsky-Dempsey-Corvo-Gleason-Quintal with Weaver or Holland serving as the 7th dman.

I think this is a trade that could benefit both teams. What do the rest of you think?

King'sPawn 01-17-2005 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
Not sure what Ottawa's plans are with their blueline (is Pothier going to be a regular in their top 6... or a 7th dman?)... but I think they might be a team who would be very interested in a defenseman like Aaron Miller.
All of Ottawa's defenders are left hand shots (save for Pothier), and adding him to their top 6 really gives Ottawa one of, if not, the best bluelines in the Eastern conference (or the NHL for that matter).

If you want to offer a defenseman with a right handed shot, you might as well offer Dempsey. Miller may be right handed, but he doesn't have much of a shot.

nikolai19 01-17-2005 06:36 PM

I think as it stands the Kings will need to keep Miller, Norstrom and Dempsey around until contracts are up. After that guys like Gleason, Grebeshkov, and possibly even Petiot will be ready for full time action.

If one defenseman is going to get traded it will be Norstrom, because he has the most value. Miller is an on again off again # 3 defenseman that I'm sure in a contract year (next year) will be fantastic. Dempsey is a dime a dozen d-man who logs minutes and can play the PP, but is not great at either. The keys to the LA defense are going to be Visnovsky, Gleason, and Grebeshkov by the time this thing gets done. What they need is some big bruiser type guys like Colin White or someone in that mold who is still fairly young, can play a lot of minutes, and add a tough presence back there.

Reaper45 01-17-2005 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust
Not sure what Ottawa's plans are with their blueline (is Pothier going to be a regular in their top 6... or a 7th dman?)... but I think they might be a team who would be very interested in a defenseman like Aaron Miller.
All of Ottawa's defenders are left hand shots (save for Pothier), and adding him to their top 6 really gives Ottawa one of, if not, the best bluelines in the Eastern conference (or the NHL for that matter).

The Senators seem to be pretty well off with goaltenders (Hasek, Prusek, Emery, Thompson, Glass) and centers... or forwards who can play center (Spezza, Smolinski, White, Fischer, Vermette).
One weakness within the Senators lineup up front is the lack of a natural LW, since Alfredsson, Hossa and Havlat like to play on the right side. And even with Hossa or Havlat playing the LW, the Sens need a second winger who can fill the top 2 lines, and give the Sens a deeper lineup with Schaefer and Varada filling up the 3-4 LW spots.

My question or proposal to Senators fans... Aaron Miller, Martin Straka (half of his salary is already paid off by the Penguins), and Esa Pirnes (he can play LW or C and is a decent penalty killer and two-way forward with good speed).

The Kings would receive Ray Emery, one of Antoine Vermette or Mike Fischer (whoever the Senators are more willing to deal) and a prospect to be named later (I'd be happy with Eaves or Bochenski or Kaigorodov ;) ).

After this trade I think the Sens could stand to be a powerhouse in the NHL. Take a look at the lineup after the trade...

Straka-Spezza-Hossa
Havlat-White-Alfredsson
Schaefer-Smolinski-Varada
Pirnes-Fischer/Vermette (pending on who the Sens will send to LA)-Neil

Their top 6 on D will be Redden-Chara-Phillips-de Vries-Volchenkov-Miller and Pothier as the 7th dman.


The Kings lineup with this trade will include...

Frolov-Conroy-Cammalleri
Robitaille-Armstrong-Klatt
Avery-Belanger-Kostopoulos
Cowan-Fischer or Vermette (again, pending on who the Kings receive)-Brown

The Kings top 6 on D would be Norstrom-Visnovsky-Dempsey-Corvo-Gleason-Quintal with Weaver or Holland serving as the 7th dman.

I think this is a trade that could benefit both teams. What do the rest of you think?

I like that deal, but I'm curious to see what Ottawa fans would think of that deal.

burgess1978 01-17-2005 07:38 PM

No from a Sens fan.

The value might be close, but...

1. Straka has had his time with the Sens.
2. Ottawa already has one seriously overpaid D in Greg de Vries.
3. They would not likely move Fisher or Vermette for 2 guys who won't be in the team more than 2 years.

I would like to see Pothier get his shot, at least 3rd pairing and 2nd PP.

You will more likely see Volchenkov playing with Redden and Pothier with de Vries, for a start anyway.

Fat Elvis 01-17-2005 08:02 PM

Ziggy, your guessing that Luc doesn't retire? That lineup still doesn't impress with Quintal and Corvo on the blue line and I doubt they'd play Brown on the 4th line again getting just a piece of the minutes that he needs.
I'd try and move Belanger, Corvo and a pick (most likely a 2nd) for a center or dman like White(thinking they'd have to add something not sure what). But we can use upgrades in our top 6 and top 4 D. But then again who doesn't?

10 ft. pole 01-17-2005 08:24 PM

The Kings are better off sticking with what they have. Youth is going to fill the wholes in our lineup.

Frolov-Straka-Klatt
Robitaille-Conroy-Cammellari
Pirnes-Armstrong-Avery
Cowan-Belanger-Kostopolus (sp.)

Miller-Visnovski
Norstrom-Dempsey
Corvo-Quintal

Garon/Cechmanek

*The one thing I really wish we would do is resign Ziggy. Swapping Palffy for Klatt and Klatt for Pirnes would immensly change this team.


We can than let Brown, Grebeshkov, and Gleason develop for the rest of the season with the Division leading Monarchs.

Legionnaire 01-17-2005 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole
The Kings are better off sticking with what they have. Youth is going to fill the wholes in our lineup.


Agree. We should be stockpiling prospects and picks not giving them away.

If we could get anything useful for Miller, like Reaper originally proposed, then I'm all for it.

Reaper45 01-17-2005 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Agree. We should be stockpiling prospects and picks not giving them away.

If we could get anything useful for Miller, like Reaper originally proposed, then I'm all for it.

Ha maybe this thread should be changed to make an offer for Kings veterans.

two out of three* 01-17-2005 09:09 PM

IMO the Kings can go in either 2 different directions.

A) Re-sign Ziggy, and be playoff contenders

B) Rebuild, and dump Miller, Straka, etc. for prospects.

I feel the Kings can become a bit of a theat in the playoffs if we re-sign Ziggy, re-sign Carter (for cheap), and acquire a #1 center. But anyway my proposal is:

To FLA: 2nd Rnd 05', Stephane Quintal
To LA: Mike Van Ryn

Reaper45 01-17-2005 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
IMO the Kings can go in either 2 different directions.

A) Re-sign Ziggy, and be playoff contenders

B) Rebuild, and dump Miller, Straka, etc. for prospects.

I feel the Kings can become a bit of a theat in the playoffs if we re-sign Ziggy, re-sign Carter (for cheap), and acquire a #1 center. But anyway my proposal is:

To FLA: 2nd Rnd 05', Stephane Quintal
To LA: Mike Van Ryn

I'd love for it to happen, but no way Florida does this deal.
Van Ryn finally broke out last season the way cammy is doing the AHL right now...


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