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-   -   Free Agent Talk (Part XV): The Non-Frenzy Edition (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1243101)

NyRangers88 08-07-2012 10:16 PM

Free Agent Talk (Part XV): The Non-Frenzy Edition
 
Continue.

Kershaw 08-07-2012 10:41 PM

@ Blueshirt Believer.

Like I said, he puts up points down the stretch against desperate playoff teams and it gets written off as useless. He plays like a god against the Senators against the playoffs and it's 'luck'. There is an irrational Boyle hatred on this section of the boards. He's in a no-win situation.

ck20 08-07-2012 10:54 PM

Boyle is definitely not a player to be relied on for production. Grinding, yes. PKing, yes. Wearing the other team down if he ever figures out that he should be hitting everything that moves, yes. But to look at him as a playmaker/finisher is a little silly. We don't have a problem if Boyle is our biggest concern, but I think we do have a problem if we're looking to him to provide that offensive kick start.

Oak 08-07-2012 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htk30 (Post 53373289)
Boyle is definitely not a player to be relied on for production. Grinding, yes. PKing, yes. Wearing the other team down if he ever figures out that he should be hitting everything that moves, yes. But to look at him as a playmaker/finisher is a little silly. We don't have a problem if Boyle is our biggest concern, but I think we do have a problem if we're looking to him to provide that offensive kick start.

My sentiments exactly.

If Boyle started using his size and actually hitting people I would like him, but as he is now I only think of him as a pk / faceoff guy. I don't think he can even be considered a grinder.

Lundsanity30 08-07-2012 11:17 PM

Has anyone taken into account the talent that Boyle played with as well on his line? This year, he could have Hagelin, Kreider, or Callahan depeding on what Torts does. Again, If Boyle as our 3c is the biggest problem we got, everyone in the NHL would love to have that problem.

Lundsanity30 08-07-2012 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oak (Post 53373857)
My sentiments exactly.

If Boyle started using his size and actually hitting people I would like him, but as he is now I only think of him as a pk / faceoff guy. I don't think he can even be considered a grinder.

what? you can question his offense, but he does hit people, he's good on the board, he's great at PK, he's great defensively, he's great at face offs, and he's great at blocking shots. The hatred for Boyle on this board is ridiculously unwarranted.

HatTrick Swayze 08-07-2012 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 53372989)
@ Blueshirt Believer.

Like I said, he puts up points down the stretch against desperate playoff teams and it gets written off as useless. He plays like a god against the Senators against the playoffs and it's 'luck'. There is an irrational Boyle hatred on this section of the boards. He's in a no-win situation.

This. It falls into two categories:

1. People who expect our 3rd line Center to pot 50 points.
2. People to expect him to be an elite heavyweight and a huge hitter because he is 6-7, or else he is "not using his size".

Oak 08-07-2012 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 (Post 53373937)
what? you can question his offense, but he does hit people, he's good on the board, he's great at PK, he's great defensively, he's great at face offs, and he's great at blocking shots. The hatred for Boyle on this board is ridiculously unwarranted.

I'll add the shot blocking to my original list, but Boyle does not hit people that often, and when he does hit, he doesn't finish his check most of the time. I really can't stand it. At least once every game I am cursing him out for being a big wimp.

Maybe we watch different games though?

Inferno 08-07-2012 11:51 PM

heres what i dont get.

didnt the rangers just finish one of the greatest seasons in their history with brian boyle getting 15+ mins a game, aka 3rd line mins?


didnt they finish in first place?

didnt they make it to the ECF?

didnt they just upgrade their single greatest area of need, aka primary scoring?

brian boyle isnt a problem on this team. right now, the only issue we have is whether or nor Michael Sauer can be healthy.

if Sauer is healthy, and Gaborik doesnt miss much time, i dont give a damn when Brian Boyle does out there as long as he doesnt hurt the team with terrible defensive play, which you know he wont.

if thats the case, brian boyle isnt a concern.

and if the rangers can get doan to accept a 2 year deal, then brian boyle shouldnt even have his name uttered once as a reason we arent winning.

Leetch3 08-07-2012 11:53 PM

my only issue with boyle is that he doesn't play with an edge all the time. not gonna say he is soft in the other games but there are times when he gets nasty and takes his game to another level...most people look at the ottawa series and see his goals early in the series, i look at the 13 hits in the first 3 games. guy played like a beast...and it has nothing to do with fighting.

i absolutely LOVE mean, angry brian boyle when he is playing pissed off...

hopefully he'll be pissed off all year that we let his buddy prust go and he'll be a nasty mofo every night lol

Lundsanity30 08-07-2012 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno (Post 53374755)
heres what i dont get.

didnt the rangers just finish one of the greatest seasons in their history with brian boyle getting 15+ mins a game, aka 3rd line mins?


didnt they finish in first place?

didnt they make it to the ECF?

didnt they just upgrade their single greatest area of need, aka primary scoring?

brian boyle isnt a problem on this team. right now, the only issue we have is whether or nor Michael Sauer can be healthy.

if Sauer is healthy, and Gaborik doesnt miss much time, i dont give a damn when Brian Boyle does out there as long as he doesnt hurt the team with terrible defensive play, which you know he wont.

if thats the case, brian boyle isnt a concern.

and if the rangers can get doan to accept a 2 year deal, then brian boyle shouldnt even have his name uttered once as a reason we arent winning.

We will be lucky if there is even hockey by the time Gaborik is healed the way this is going.

ck20 08-08-2012 12:35 AM

I may need to amend my "Boyle needs to hit everything in sight" comment, considering after looking at the numbers from last season he was second on the team @ 236 hits behind Cally @ 271. Next highest under Boyle was Girardi @ 211. But still, I don't get the feel that he's really doing some damage with most of his hits. Like Swayze was saying, people either expect our 3c to be a 50+ pt player while only costing us $1mil or to be of the Lucic mold; neither of which Boyle can become (barring extraordinary circumstances). As long as he doesn't take shifts off, which he rarely if ever did last season, I have no qualms keeping him on the 3rd line. If worse comes to worst, I'm sure Torts will swap Boyle and Halpern or who have you.

The problem is that Boyle tends to rack up 2-4 minutes a game in those dwindling minutes when a goal is crucial. I think this is where the Boyle hate stems from; the fact that Torts will almost blindly put him out there in situations where he has no business being on the ice. When we need a goal, we shouldn't be turning to Boyle to create space or set up the play. Why did we get Richards then? Why would we gun for Nash? We have plenty of other players that should be the ones learning how to open up the play and make room and dictating those last few minutes. So sure, we got to the ECF with Boyle playing ~15 minutes a game, but there are always things that can and should be tweaked from season to season.

If Boyle goes out there, he should have one extremely simple task: SCREEN. I think this is where a lot of the "Boyle doesn't use his size" arguments arise as well. This was the Rangers' downfall for just about all of last season. Zero net presence. When we have players the size of Boyle that don't ALWAYS utilize it to their full advantage is when we start to see problems materialize. He needs to park his butt right in the other team's goalie's face and make life miserable for the defense. But unfortunately I don't think we'll ever see this sort of thing.

Blue Blooded 08-08-2012 01:42 AM

Carolina signs Skinner to a ridiculous extension for 6 years @ 5.725. I've never been high on Skinner, but I still feel justified in saying this looks ATM like the worst RFA contract of the cap era.

He put up some very impressive numbers in his rookie year, but had some issues with attitude, defence and playing a team game.

This last season his performance declined while his issues got worse, and he gets rewarded with a contract that will pay him more than Tavares!? Mind-boggling.

This will be like the JVR contract, only worse IMO.

RangerBoy 08-08-2012 04:03 AM

Bross is trying to leverage Sather. He spoke to stop coaching Pat. How can Pat not mention its a 35 plus contract and the CBA is expiring in his article?

Quote:

Doan originally set a deadline of July 28 for Jamison to convince him the team would remain in Phoenix, but that day he met with the former San Jose Sharks CEO and decided to give Jamison more time. If there’s anything Doan wants to avoid, it’s making a rash decision to leave, only to find out later the franchise will remain in Arizona.

“We’re trying to see this thing through with the Coyotes, and a decision could come at any time,” Bross said Tuesday.

Bross confirmed that a team outside of New York has offered Doan a four-year deal worth at least $7 million per season, both a high price and long term for a player who turns 36 on Oct. 10 and racked up his lowest point total last season (50) since 2001-02. There is no telling whether that offer comes from a team in which Doan has interest, though, so there is no knowing what leverage it would create against the Blueshirts and GM Glen Sather.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...#ixzz22wYXgUu8

They want 4 years. That's not happening with the Rangers. 3 years is not happening either. Look at how the Rangers contracts are set up. They have 3 players signed for a reason with so many key players needing contracts in the next two summers.

July 28? Doan's first deadline was July 9.

RangerBoy 08-08-2012 04:05 AM

The NHL wants to eliminate the 2nd contracts and here comes Carolina with their Skinner contract. Minnesota with the Suter and Parise contracts. They can't blame the Rangers for this next lockout.

Stasis 08-08-2012 04:08 AM

Thanks for the updates RB, I appreciate it. I really learn a lot and gain a lot of insight from many of your posts across these boards.

pld459666 08-08-2012 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kershaw (Post 53372989)
@ Blueshirt Believer.

Like I said, he puts up points down the stretch against desperate playoff teams and it gets written off as useless. He plays like a god against the Senators against the playoffs and it's 'luck'. There is an irrational Boyle hatred on this section of the boards. He's in a no-win situation.

I couldn't quote your comment in the other thread.

I took away that ten game stretch because you ignored the previous 72 games.

A season is not made up of ten game stretches.

That ten games is fine, but where was he during the rest of the Reg. Season?

before that ten games he was a threat to score once every 10+ games. NOT GOOD ENOUGH

And while we can improve the talent up front all we want, until that third line becomes more of a threat to put the puck in the net consistently we will still struggle to score goals.

Boyle, being the center, has a responsibility to help generate that offence and thus far inot his career, he has not shown the ability or consistency to get that done.

For me, it's not a bad thing as I believe he is a better than average 4th line center, but I do not believe he has the tools needed to help make that third line offensively capable.

RangerBoy 08-08-2012 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stasis (Post 53377581)
Thanks for the updates RB, I appreciate it. I really learn a lot and gain a lot of insight from many of your posts across these boards.

It doesn't take much to realize the NHL teams can't help themselves. Carolina has all of the leverage on Skinner and gave him so much money. The NHL has proposed eliminating salary arbitration and moving group III free agency to 10 years accrued from 7 years accrued or 27 years old to get rid of the 2nd contract. Skinner would have been a group II without arbitration rights next summer(assuming arbitration remains in its current form). Where is Skinner going?

Graves94 08-08-2012 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno (Post 53374755)
heres what i dont get.

didnt the rangers just finish one of the greatest seasons in their history with brian boyle getting 15+ mins a game, aka 3rd line mins?


didnt they finish in first place?

didnt they make it to the ECF?

didnt they just upgrade their single greatest area of need, aka primary scoring?

brian boyle isnt a problem on this team. right now, the only issue we have is whether or nor Michael Sauer can be healthy.

if Sauer is healthy, and Gaborik doesnt miss much time, i dont give a damn when Brian Boyle does out there as long as he doesnt hurt the team with terrible defensive play, which you know he wont.

if thats the case, brian boyle isnt a concern.

and if the rangers can get doan to accept a 2 year deal, then brian boyle shouldnt even have his name uttered once as a reason we arent winning.

Agreed! All these posts about Boyle are insane and frankly just stupid.
Boyle will average about 15 goals a year and play sound defensive hockey, and is a well liked player. No need to debate his importance for 20 pages...

Ola 08-08-2012 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Blooded (Post 53376505)
Carolina signs Skinner to a ridiculous extension for 6 years @ 5.725. I've never been high on Skinner, but I still feel justified in saying this looks ATM like the worst RFA contract of the cap era.

He put up some very impressive numbers in his rookie year, but had some issues with attitude, defence and playing a team game.

This last season his performance declined while his issues got worse, and he gets rewarded with a contract that will pay him more than Tavares!? Mind-boggling.

This will be like the JVR contract, only worse IMO.

I agree. Sure, Skinner is a good hockey player. HeckA, after his UFA years starts 5+ might no be far off.

But he is undoubedtly overrated. Definitely in the Tyler Myers mode. Just not that talented, and actually pretty flawed in some areas.

NYR Viper 08-08-2012 07:38 AM

I have stated this MANY times before and people just seem to ignore so I will re-post.

Brian Boyle is a good/decent 3rd line player. He normally gets 10-13 minutes a night because he is a MAJOR PKer. The organization feels they can give him that role to start the season. If, by the time the deadline roles around, the Rangers are in a position to make a run, acquiring a better, or equal 3rd line center should not be overly difficult. Grab one, slide Boyle down a line if he isn't producing and you have great center depth. If he is producing, look to upgrade elsewhere.

If Boyle has 25-30 points by the deadline (which I think he will), then it is a moot point. He is still developing even at an older age. The Rangers must feel that he can take that next step to be their 3rd line center both now and in the coming years so they want to give him that shot.

pld459666 08-08-2012 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno (Post 53374755)
heres what i dont get.

didnt the rangers just finish one of the greatest seasons in their history with brian boyle getting 15+ mins a game, aka 3rd line mins?


didnt they finish in first place?

didnt they make it to the ECF?

didnt they just upgrade their single greatest area of need, aka primary scoring?

brian boyle isnt a problem on this team. right now, the only issue we have is whether or nor Michael Sauer can be healthy.

if Sauer is healthy, and Gaborik doesnt miss much time, i dont give a damn when Brian Boyle does out there as long as he doesnt hurt the team with terrible defensive play, which you know he wont.

if thats the case, brian boyle isnt a concern.

and if the rangers can get doan to accept a 2 year deal, then brian boyle shouldnt even have his name uttered once as a reason we arent winning.

I disagree that this was their biggest need.

I thought we got enough primary scoring, it was the secondary scoring that plagued this team.

An issue that could have been corrected with an average season from Dubinsky and a better season from Anisimov.

Boyle dropping 10 goals from the year before last didn't kill this team, but it sure as hell didn't help.

The Rangers primary scoring was never the issue. It was a lack of production from lines 3 and 4 which we did not address.

Granted, I like where we are in terms of top line talent, 2nd line talent in Stepan, Callahan and one of Kreider or Hagelin, but I am less than thrilled with the prospect of Boyle being the center of the third line as I believe we are still going to have issues scoring consistently.

BlueshirtBlitz 08-08-2012 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 53378867)
I disagree that this was their biggest need.

I thought we got enough primary scoring, it was the secondary scoring that plagued this team.

An issue that could have been corrected with an average season from Dubinsky and a better season from Anisimov.

Boyle dropping 10 goals from the year before last didn't kill this team, but it sure as hell didn't help.

The Rangers primary scoring was never the issue. It was a lack of production from lines 3 and 4 which we did not address.

Granted, I like where we are in terms of top line talent, 2nd line talent in Stepan, Callahan and one of Kreider or Hagelin, but I am less than thrilled with the prospect of Boyle being the center of the third line as I believe we are still going to have issues scoring consistently.

I disagree, I think besides Gabby and Richie we had no primary scoring in the PO's.

We had TONS of secondary scoring- Dan Girardi had a bunch of points, Marc Staal scored the OT winning goal in Game 5 in the WSH series, etc.

Gabby and Richie had monster Caps series but were more quiet in Ottawa and NJ.

IF Nash can revert back to 40 goal form here, I think we're much better off.

NYR Viper 08-08-2012 08:02 AM

Most of the time, it is MUCH easier to replace depth than to replace high-end scoring. I would rather have Asham over Prust and Pyatt over Dubinsky while having Rick Nash than the other way around because that depth can be acquired easier through the system, FA or trade.

pld459666 08-08-2012 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz (Post 53378967)
I disagree, I think besides Gabby and Richie we had no primary scoring in the PO's.

We had TONS of secondary scoring- Dan Girardi had a bunch of points, Marc Staal scored the OT winning goal in Game 5 in the WSH series, etc.

Gabby and Richie had monster Caps series but were more quiet in Ottawa and NJ.

IF Nash can revert back to 40 goal form here, I think we're much better off.

That primary issue falls on Callahan and Stepan. Both basically had top line production during the Reg, Season but both followed that up with sub-par performances in terms of production in the PO's and while Boyle may have had a good 1st round series until he got his bell rung, his linemates were not doing jack squat.

Part of being a center is to get your guys going offensively. Everyone has their roles defensively. As a Center, it is part of the job requirement to get your guys going. Boyle doesn't have that skill set.

Like I said, I like our top line, I like the 2nd line guys we have, But until that third line can aleviate the scoring burden of the top 6, we are going to have issues scoring.


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