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-   -   Prospect Info: [#18] Voting -- HFStars 2012 Top-20 Prospects -- [#19] Discussion (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1243747)

piqued 08-09-2012 10:08 AM

[#18] Voting -- HFStars 2012 Top-20 Prospects -- [#19] Discussion
 
‏‏‏‏ 
pos.
country
acquired
round
change
% of vote
1
 ‏‏‏‏Jack Campbell
G
2010
1st
0
37.7
2
 ‏‏‏‏Jamie Oleksiak
D
2011
1st
2
48.0
3
 ‏‏‏‏Alex Chiasson
RW
2009
2nd
2
57.1
4
 ‏‏‏‏Radek Faksa
C
2012
1st
new
73.5
5
 ‏‏‏‏Brenden Dillon
D
2011
FA
7
43.9
6
 ‏‏‏‏Patrik Nemeth
D
2010
2nd
2
38.5
7
 ‏‏‏‏Cody Eakin
C
2012
TR
new
52.3
8
 ‏‏‏‏Reilly Smith
W
2009
3rd
1
34.0
9
 ‏‏‏‏Matt Fraser
LW
2010
FA
9
50.0
10
 ‏‏‏‏Scott Glennie
C/W
2009
1st
7
54.3
11
 ‏‏‏‏Matej Stransky
RW
2011
6th
10
50.0
12
 ‏‏‏‏Brett Ritchie
RW
2011
2nd
1
40.0
13
 ‏‏‏‏Ludvig Bystrom
D
2012
2nd
new
52.8
14
 ‏‏‏‏Alex Guptill
LW
2010
3rd
7
75.0
15
 ‏‏‏‏Emil Molin
C
2011
4th
0
53.3
16
 ‏‏‏‏Austin Smith
RW
2007
5th
5
62.5
17
 ‏‏‏‏Colton Sceviour
C/W
2007
4th
1
28.6

piqued 08-09-2012 10:18 AM

If Klingberg ends up as the bridesmaid again I do have him pegged next at 19, so he'll probably make the cut eventually.

Didn't want to leave him outside the top-20 entirely but that injury is a significant concern, especially for a guy whose standout quality is his explosive stride.

BigG44 08-09-2012 10:52 AM

With only three spots left, some guys I really like are not going to make the Top 20. The Dallas Stars' scouting department (drafting and recruiting undrafted players) as well as GMJN's philosophy to hoard picks are paying off. I know casual fans are angry about missing the playoffs, but this group of guys should give you hope for a turn around in the near future.

I thought Vance and Jokipakka were locks for the Top 20. I'm not so confident now. I really wanted to see Shore for sure and possibly Winther as well.

piqued 08-09-2012 11:13 AM

Yep, Vance and Jokipakka are my #21 and #22. It's a shame that some guys are going to be left out. Doesn't mean they aren't legit prospects with real potential.

With their particular case the final group for me comes down to Shore/Klingberg/Winther/Vance/Jokipakka. I have trouble putting 2 primarily defensive defenders (speaking about how they project at the next level) over the potentially dynamic offensive D (even if he's a long-shot) or the 2 fairly highly-touted new centers. Have a feeling we could look pretty silly next summer (a la Stransky) if Shore and Winther don't make it.

txomisc 08-09-2012 11:14 AM

I'd like to know peoples reasoning for Shore over Winther.

Frozen Failure 08-09-2012 11:22 AM

Shore has oodles more offensive potential than Winther, imo.

txomisc 08-09-2012 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Failure (Post 53414933)
Shore has oodles more offensive potential than Winther, imo.

what kind of offensive production are you thinking?

piqued 08-09-2012 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txomisc (Post 53414669)
I'd like to know peoples reasoning for Shore over Winther.

I'll try to give you my thinking on that. Obviously the margin, if any, between them is very small.

First of all, they were only taken 7 spots apart, which is basically nothing. So you can't say "Well, how could you put this guy ahead of the other when he was drafted after". It makes sense that Winther would be selected first as he was coming out of one of the most heavily scouted leagues in the world whereas Shore was more obscure with quality of competition questions surrounding him.

Winther's standout quality is his speed. Shore's is his upper-tier hockey sense, which was described as possibly being one of the best in the entire draft. Skating is nice and all, but I'll take the guy with the advanced feel for the game with the puck on his stick. There's talk that Winther might need to move off the center position going forward. I haven't heard anything about that regarding Shore. If that indeed happens Shore becomes the more valuable prospect even if you consider them equal otherwise.

Chaos 08-09-2012 11:33 AM

Im going with Klingberg, Vance, and Shore to finish out the top 20.

MetalGodAOD 08-09-2012 12:08 PM

I know very little about the new 2nd rounders, but I'm personally not too high on Klingberg or Vance. So going Shore than Winther.

BigG44 08-09-2012 12:09 PM

I also have Shore ahead of Winther, and for mostly the same reasons as piqued.

Chiasson was also a high IQ scorer in a low-tier junior league with questionable skating when Dallas drafted him. His jump to BU and dedication to focusing on power skating made him the top prospect he is today.

Maine's not nearly as prestigious as BU, but Shore is getting good coaching and great competition in Hockey East. Also a huge plus for me is that Shore is considered a hard worker with a team first attitude. When you have that personality with that skill, you usually can find success at the next level. All to often you're looking at prospects with just skill or just a solid work ethic. Like Jagr pointed out this summer, being the best is about working for it.

I think there's another good chance Dallas has pulled a successful prospect out of the OJHL. Now we just need those Ontario guys (R. Smith, Guptill, and Shore) to eventually transition to the pro game.

BigG44 08-09-2012 12:16 PM

Nearly every quote I found about Shore after the draft talked about his skill, hockey IQ, and work ethic, but this one from Craig Button stuck out to me:

Quote:

Devin is a solid all-around player who is concerned with one thing - What can I do to help the team win. Incredibly unselfish, when it comes to the critical times in the game, Devin will take the 'bull by the horns' and do whatever is in the best interests of the team ... He is a strong competitor and is not going to allow himself to be denied or deterred form the task at hand. He makes those around him better and is capable of changing the direction of the game to his team's favour because of having his finger on the pulse and believing he can deliver.
Les Jackson also called him, "a pretty unique offensive mind."

LatvianTwist 08-09-2012 12:20 PM

Klingberg here, just can't put one of our 2nd rounders on this yet.

Probably Shore next. Vance and Jokipakka aren't on my list either.

Killer Keller 08-09-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piqued (Post 53415061)

Winther's standout quality is his speed. Shore's is his upper-tier hockey sense, which was described as possibly being one of the best in the entire draft. Skating is nice and all, but I'll take the guy with the advanced feel for the game with the puck on his stick. There's talk that Winther might need to move off the center position going forward. I haven't heard anything about that regarding Shore. If that indeed happens Shore becomes the more valuable prospect even if you consider them equal otherwise.

This is exactly why I chose Shore this round and will chose Winther next. I believe that hockey sense is one of, if not the most, important quality when evaluating a prospect and projecting their likelihood to make an impact in the NHL.

LatvianTwist 08-09-2012 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer Keller (Post 53417205)
This is exactly why I chose Shore this round and will chose Winther next. I believe that hockey sense is one of, if not the most, important quality when evaluating a prospect and projecting their likelihood to make an impact in the NHL.

It's extremely hard to pick up on though, and then of course, there are those people who'll tell you it doesn't even exist.

I agree, though. This league is becoming too focused on skill, speed, size, etc. when the best players (IMO) are the smartest ones.

Hull Fan 08-09-2012 01:50 PM

I still like Klingberg and can't knock him off because this injury could effect his skating going forward. We have no idea what it's going to do to him but since he's on the Stars' training and recovery program I have no doubt they'll do everything they can to help him get healthy. I'm not giving up on that projection just yet.

I still have great expectations for Vance as well. His size and skating ability is just too rare for people to dump on him. He does need time to develop because he really didn't get to an upper tier hockey program until he was already 17. He physically needs to fill out that massive frame and he's still learning how to defend. I expect a much better mix of offense and defense from him this year as he gets more minutes in better situations. I also expect him to need a couple of seasons in the AHL before he's ready but this is a guy who's going to be in the NHL. His floor as a 6th defenseman puts him ahead of a lot of guys whose floor is the AHL.

I'll also butt into the Shore/Winther debate. Beyond what piqued and BigG have said, Winther didn't play center this past year. He played a little but over 60+ games he was at left wing which is where he'll play this year and going forward. He's got great potential as a scoring winger in the Phil Kessel mold, as a guy who's going to beat you with his speed, but Shore has the upside as a scoring center. Give me the pivot, every time.

Klingberg, Vance, Shore, Troock, Winther, Jokipakka

On the last vote are we each going to share our personal top 20/25?

TrillMike 08-09-2012 02:03 PM

Vance because he looked like a boss at prospect camp.

LatvianTwist 08-09-2012 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 53420865)
I still like Klingberg and can't knock him off because this injury could effect his skating going forward. We have no idea what it's going to do to him but since he's on the Stars' training and recovery program I have no doubt they'll do everything they can to help him get healthy. I'm not giving up on that projection just yet.

I still have great expectations for Vance as well. His size and skating ability is just too rare for people to dump on him. He does need time to develop because he really didn't get to an upper tier hockey program until he was already 17. He physically needs to fill out that massive frame and he's still learning how to defend. I expect a much better mix of offense and defense from him this year as he gets more minutes in better situations. I also expect him to need a couple of seasons in the AHL before he's ready but this is a guy who's going to be in the NHL. His floor as a 6th defenseman puts him ahead of a lot of guys whose floor is the AHL.

I'll also butt into the Shore/Winther debate. Beyond what piqued and BigG have said, Winther didn't play center this past year. He played a little but over 60+ games he was at left wing which is where he'll play this year and going forward. He's got great potential as a scoring winger in the Phil Kessel mold, as a guy who's going to beat you with his speed, but Shore has the upside as a scoring center. Give me the pivot, every time.

Klingberg, Vance, Shore, Troock, Winther, Jokipakka

On the last vote are we each going to share our personal top 20/25?

I thought Vance sucked at skating, or was that Bystrom/Lindell?

Hull Fan 08-09-2012 04:20 PM

Vance is a former forward who skates really well for a defenseman. He's not Olesiak but he gets up and down the ice very well for a big guy. His problem is learning how to use that frame and some coordination issues because he's still kinda awkward due to the fact that he's like 6'5" and 180 something. He needs muscle mass and playing games. The muscles will come and playing in the QMJHL means he'll get games in a very offensive league so he'll be able to gain that experience against very offensive systems. He's a project till he fills out that frame but given time he's going to be an NHL defenseman. Book it.

LatvianTwist 08-09-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 53427729)
Vance is a former forward who skates really well for a defenseman. He's not Olesiak but he gets up and down the ice very well for a big guy. His problem is learning how to use that frame and some coordination issues because he's still kinda awkward due to the fact that he's like 6'5" and 180 something. He needs muscle mass and playing games. The muscles will come and playing in the QMJHL means he'll get games in a very offensive league so he'll be able to gain that experience against very offensive systems. He's a project till he fills out that frame but given time he's going to be an NHL defenseman. Book it.

It's not that I don't think he'll be NHL caliber. It's just that I don't ever see him having a spot here in Dallas.

________ 08-09-2012 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatvianTwist (Post 53426357)
I thought Vance sucked at skating, or was that Bystrom/Lindell?

Lindell, but with power skating lessons and getting stronger will correct those issues.

glovesave_35 08-09-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatvianTwist (Post 53417411)
It's extremely hard to pick up on though, and then of course, there are those people who'll tell you it doesn't even exist.

Those people are idiots.

LatvianTwist 08-09-2012 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glovesave_35 (Post 53440159)
Those people are idiots.

Same people who think Gretzky isn't even a top 3 player of all time. :shakehead

Ambassador Of Fun 08-09-2012 11:08 PM

LOL Clutchness I can see as being a farce, but hockey sense... that is absolutely ridiculous.


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