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barrytrotzsneck 01-18-2005 12:19 AM

CBA Talk
 
looks like a last ditch effort to save the season.

Goodenow and Bettman won't be there, which might actually be a good thing. Daly, Saskin, Linden and Hotchkiss will have the talks. No proposal will be offered...but many are taking this as a good sign..and it might be just that.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...47&hubName=nhl

predperson 01-19-2005 06:42 AM

Last ditch effort for NHL?
Quote:

The Nashville Predators captain doesn’t expect to see a deal by the end of today, but he is hopeful there will be some positive movement as players and the league meet at an undisclosed location to resume discussions on a new collective bargaining agreement.
http://nashvillecitypaper.com/index....&news_id=38646

tulsytrid1 01-19-2005 10:42 AM

:handclap: to Johnson.

predperson 01-20-2005 06:16 PM

Well damn..... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Quote:

Daly: 'I can't say we're any closer'
Quote:

the talks, which lasted 9˝ hours over the two days, broke off without a deal or plans for the sides to meet further.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print...331&type=story

barrytrotzsneck 01-20-2005 07:14 PM

well, first....

www.tsn.ca

much better source for info than espn could hope to be ;)

also, I don't think this is reason to give up hope. This is basically what they said yesterday. Both sides are still being respectful ( a far cry from earlier in the lockout) and I don't think anyone expected them to come out of the meeting announcing an agreement had been reached. They can't meet tomorrow due to Saskin's mother's passing, but I expect them to meet again sometime early next week..this time with a proposal being made. There's still not much hope...but there's as much as there was last night.

barrytrotzsneck 01-27-2005 03:31 PM

Thought I'd drag this back up,a nd hopefully we can get some meaningful discussion about all that's going on right now.

The two sides met in Toronto yesterday, and both sides came out deliberately declining to comment. To ME, this seems a good thing..as it marks the first of a few similarities in this year to last year. Apparently, it's been reported that they've moved to NYC tonight and the league is bringing a proposal. Proposal is a strange word here..because Daly said the "time for proposals is behind us," which leads us to maybe believe that the proposal only contains what the two sides discussed yesterday. Lou Lamoirello, the GM of the Devils attended the meeting yesterday, another good thing. He's one of the best GMs in the league..but more importantly, he's a guy that the players AS WELL as the owners respect, and hopefully he can mediate between the two. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but there finally seems to be a little something to be optimistic about.

SmokeyClause 01-27-2005 03:49 PM

I remain cautiously optimistic that something will get done, but I've managed OK without hockey. Due to grad school night classes, I wouldn't have been able to attend any weekday Preds games, and I have been so busy that I haven't missed hockey as much as I would have thought. When school ends in May and I am only taking a few summer classes, I'll definitely miss the playoffs.

With regards to the actual contents of the CBA, I am absolutely drooling over the possibilities of a mid 30 mil hard cap. I'd love to see how the Preds compete in the Central division if financially they are on par with the likes of Detroit and St. Louis. I think we might be better than St. Louis anyways, but we definitely need a cap to catch Detroit in the near future.

vopatsrash 01-27-2005 04:12 PM

I, too, am cautiously optimistic. The news of the last 72 hours boils down to a) is it just pr posturing to claim they negotiated in good faith after they cancel the season and there is no real dialogue? or b) this is all just what happens before an agreement and all the rumors and hearsay mean that something good is happening.

I want to believe it's b and it would be sad if it's a. I'm trying to keep an even keel.

I'm hoping that if the rumor floating around (35-soft/tax, 50-hard, franchise-exception) is true that the tax is tough enough to even out the scary looking franchise exemption aspect. For my own sanity I have not taken a close look at the rumored plans, but that exemption has salary escalation written all over it on the surface.

All I know is that I want to be eating my lunches at centennial sportsplex next week...

barrytrotzsneck 01-27-2005 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vopatsrash
I, too, am cautiously optimistic. The news of the last 72 hours boils down to a) is it just pr posturing to claim they negotiated in good faith after they cancel the season and there is no real dialogue? or b) this is all just what happens before an agreement and all the rumors and hearsay mean that something good is happening.

I want to believe it's b and it would be sad if it's a. I'm trying to keep an even keel.

I'm hoping that if the rumor floating around (35-soft/tax, 50-hard, franchise-exception) is true that the tax is tough enough to even out the scary looking franchise exemption aspect. For my own sanity I have not taken a close look at the rumored plans, but that exemption has salary escalation written all over it on the surface.

All I know is that I want to be eating my lunches at centennial sportsplex next week...


See, I think that's the type of agreement that it would have to be. Make the window high enough to appease the players...but make the penalties for going over the first limit stiff enough that most teams are discouraged from doing so..and those that do...benefit the league on the whole.

barrytrotzsneck 01-27-2005 07:31 PM

TSN is reporting a rumored deal with an individual player cap of 6 million. I doubt this is true..and pray it isn't. The league would have to realize that such a proposal would be a step backwards, and if they had brought it up to Linden he likely would have gotten up and walked out of the room immediately. MEANWHILE, sportsnet reports a rumored deal with a soft cap of 35-40 million with a luxury tax...on up to a hard cap at 50 million...something I could see as a little more possible.

Joe T Choker 01-27-2005 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
TSN is reporting a rumored deal with an individual player cap of 6 million. I doubt this is true..and pray it isn't. The league would have to realize that such a proposal would be a step backwards, and if they had brought it up to Linden he likely would have gotten up and walked out of the room immediately. MEANWHILE, sportsnet reports a rumored deal with a soft cap of 35-40 million with a luxury tax...on up to a hard cap at 50 million...something I could see as a little more possible.

from what I've heard the cap from 40-50 its dollar for dollar ... not exactly a meaningful tax, imo

PredsFan77* 01-27-2005 08:27 PM

I hope for it, but I doubt it.

handtrick 01-27-2005 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe_Strummer
from what I've heard the cap from 40-50 its dollar for dollar ... not exactly a meaningful tax, imo


JS, I was thinking the same thing. I think the dollar for dollar starting at 38, then 2:1 from 43-46, then 2.5 or 3:1 from 46-50 would be much more meaningful, especially if they get the franchise exclusion.

I also think the got to keep some form of rollback to keep from having to have a dispersal draft.

How does everyone think they will handle all the UFA's out there with such a small time window to start the season. Draft, mad dash signings, or what?

Joe T Choker 01-27-2005 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick
JS, I was thinking the same thing. I think the dollar for dollar starting at 38, then 2:1 from 43-46, then 2.5 or 3:1 from 46-50 would be much more meaningful, especially if they get the franchise exclusion.

I also think the got to keep some form of rollback to keep from having to have a dispersal draft.

How does everyone think they will handle all the UFA's out there with such a small time window to start the season. Draft, mad dash signings, or what?

according to eklund (however reputable he is, i don't know or care), but supposedly he was told that the GM's/Owners need to sign these players asafp once the CBA deal is signed

handtrick 01-27-2005 09:04 PM

Meeting concluded at 9:15 tonite [started at 4:30]. Sportsnet reporting, "No new talks planned."

WTF....no need to talk anymore [deal signed] :) ...or did they tell eachother to f_off [season over] :mad:

I have had about enough of this rollercoaster sh|t. :banghead:

barrytrotzsneck 01-27-2005 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe_Strummer
according to eklund (however reputable he is, i don't know or care), but supposedly he was told that the GM's/Owners need to sign these players asafp once the CBA deal is signed


Eklund is a lying piece of garbage. Don't bother with him.

HT- it's still early yet. There were no new meetings planned yesterday, either. The silence\declination to comment is a good sign. Everything is hush hush..as it should be. Let's reserve judgement for now.

Pred303 01-27-2005 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick
Meeting concluded at 9:15 tonite [started at 4:30]. Sportsnet reporting, "No new talks planned."

WTF....no need to talk anymore [deal signed] :) ...or did they tell eachother to f_off [season over] :mad:

I have had about enough of this rollercoaster sh|t. :banghead:

man you're so emotional,no wonder you cann't get along with that oldhickory guy

:snide:

handtrick 01-27-2005 09:21 PM

From TSN: "The NHL made a proposal during the meeting that was rejected by the NHLPA. The proposal reportedly included a team-by-team salary cap with no revenue sharing between the teams."


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...91&hubName=nhl

handtrick 01-27-2005 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pred303
man you're so emotional,no wonder you cann't get along with that oldhickory guy

:snide:


I saw you kissing and making up with the moron today.... :shakehead

Pred303 01-27-2005 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick
From TSN: "The NHL made a proposal during the meeting that was rejected by the NHLPA. The proposal reportedly included a team-by-team salary cap with no revenue sharing between the teams."


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...91&hubName=nhl

of course we know nothing,but i have to admit this doesn't sound hopeful

...and the guy asked a legitimate hockey question,you know me i am forced to answer...sometimes you remind me of the little sister i never had :lol

predperson 01-29-2005 06:23 AM

Players still bristling at cap systems

Quote:

The first two clues that things didn't go well in Thursday's bargaining session between the NHL and NHL Players Association came moments after the meeting ended: no further meetings planned; significant philosophical differences.
Quote:

Sources have told TSN the NHLPA's primary problem continues to be with the NHL's insistence on cost certainty or a hard salary cap. The NHLPA is characterizing what the NHL offered as a "triple cap."
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=112913

quartermaster29 01-29-2005 09:51 AM

Quote:

Salary arbitration is another area of concern for the players and they reportedly were not enamoured with the modifications that the league proposed. Sources say the league proposed a system where players would have all salary increases in arbitration capped at or limited to 25 per cent and that the arbitration awards could be one, two or three years in length. Teams would also have the right to take players to arbitration. In the expired agreement, only players could elect to go to arbitration.
Wow. Capping the salary increases at 25%. That sucks. And if a player gets that 25% increase one season then only scores 5 goals the next season the owners can take him to task and try and get his salary reduced. That really sucks too... payment tied to performance, but not limiting that performance to only how well they do in contract re-negotiation years. Really unfair.


/end sarcasm

quartermaster29 01-29-2005 09:56 AM

But I do think the cap system offered (assuming the rumors are true) is a bit complex, ya? They want each team to cap out at $42 mil, with a floor of $32 mil. On top of that is a league wide 'cap' of 54% of revenues and if any team tries to pay more than the 54% of leaguewide revenues they reduce the $42 mil. AND individual caps of $6 mil. on the players.

I dunno. Maybe Jdub was right about the league only having one goal: break the Union. How else can you define what this offer is? It's insane and I don't see how the league could have expected the NHLPA to accept that. :dunno:

SmokeyClause 01-29-2005 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quartermaster29
But I do think the cap system offered (assuming the rumors are true) is a bit complex, ya? They want each team to cap out at $42 mil, with a floor of $32 mil. On top of that is a league wide 'cap' of 54% of revenues and if any team tries to pay more than the 54% of leaguewide revenues they reduce the $42 mil. AND individual caps of $6 mil. on the players.

I dunno. Maybe Jdub was right about the league only having one goal: break the Union. How else can you define what this offer is? It's insane and I don't see how the league could have expected the NHLPA to accept that. :dunno:

I think it's an intriguing offer and one that makes sense from the NHL's point of view (which is the only type of offer they are going to put forth). There is no doubt in my mind they are trying to break the union. Sure they would like to get the season going and they are working towards that, but they have an eye to the future. They realize that the NHLPA will not accept a legitimate cap and they are throwing out increasingly better deals out there, but none that the NHLPA would likely accept. They know that. Their goal is to show that they tried to bargain in good faith. And one way to do that is to show that your offers got closer and closer to a 'happy medium'.

I think the owners realize the damage this situation has done to the sport. But I think they also realize the precarious situation the NHL is in. Give in to the NHLPA's demands and then face a similar situation of a lockout in a few years or stand your ground and risk losing a full year and possibly having to play with replacement players/line crossers to start out next season. Neither idea is attractive, but the NHL has made it's bed. They feel that the NHL cannot exist without cost certainty (we've heard this before). It looks like there is only one way to see this cost certainty and that is to break the union.

It's a sad situation to be in, but it's the owners fault as well. They have allowed the union to grow to this size and became virtually impossible for them to deal with. They created this monster, and now they are going to risk the NHL's very existence defeating it.

barrytrotzsneck 01-29-2005 09:40 PM

Let me put it this way...I started this lockout firmly behind the owners...

At this point, I'm on no one's side. It's easy to fingerpoint at the players for refusing to budge on the cap idea...but the owners are being a little ridiculous, too. Neither side is bargaining in good faith, and I'd say there's little hope for a season this year and things look bleak next year as well. Bear in mind that if the season is officially cancelled...you won't see another meeting until August or September of next year. There'll be no impetus to do so.


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