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DKH 09-19-2003 12:53 AM

Bergeron sticking around for awhile
 
very interesting- there is no way this kid could possibly make the Broons with Junior eligability but a 10 look see wouldn't be the longest shot of all time- but close to Patriot/Angels like for me. When (or if) Zinovjev gets here I expect he to may show above average skills sending Bruins Nation into a frenzy of what may be.....but we've seen it before (ok, I have, you under 30 probably haven't beyond a Joe or Sammy) with the likes of Czerkawski and Walz in the last 15 years but not many. The Pasins, Cimettas, Stevenson, Aitkens that ended busts had some interest based on Draft status but nothing really can't missish. Murray, Stumpel, and Smolinski kinda arrived- Murray got the most ink because of the Neely model in Boston and Murray's size and postion- but he was always an easy going semi- gentle giant.

This is going to be hype and great if it is....some bright sunshine and somethng for the other eye to do during Broon season. Bergeron-Zinovjev will be interesting for Broon fans for a change- and they were not first rounders but guys all 30 teams had a shot at and passed atleast once. The Samuelssons, Hilberts, Humls et al may end up better but their upside seems to be somewhat easier to project- or more likely there upside. BUT, Zinovjev and Bergeron may have the Kavorka, the Duende...."it"......Zinovjev hasn't even arrived but may guess is after a couple of practices Dupes has an article both extolling his talent and laden with enough clouds and pessimism to make any mother bring an umbrella, raincoat and boots to any Broons parade.

I love it- and am probably guilty of getting opptimistic over two guys I have never seen but so what- its better than knowing within minutes off the assembly line your first rounder top 10 actually 8th (Aitken) has deficiencies and needs alot of work- now we are hearing the positives- not the negatives. This management somehow has gotten accentuating the positives and not the negatives on Broon future.

Will they both make it? two second rounders as top 6 forwards? has happened but just not in Broon land. And if it does we may be going back 20-25 years ago ....when the Crowder, Kaspers, Fergus, Pederson, Krushelnyski, Secord, Levielle, McCrimmon, Dufour, and someguy named Ray group arrived like toys off the assembly line at Boston Gahden.

If this starts happening, MOC has done something that will have everyone smiling around here.

mmmBeer 09-19-2003 02:31 AM

If Bergeron were to make the team, what would his status be for next season? I.E. would he have to sit out the year if there's a lockout/strike, or would he be able to play in Providence or go back to juniors? If he can't play if there's a work stoppage, then he certainly shouldn't make the team, even if he deserves it. Either way, I think another year in juniors is the best option, but I agree with letting him see some NHL action... partly for selfish reasons. I wanna see the kid play.

neelynugs 09-19-2003 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBBBruin
If Bergeron were to make the team, what would his status be for next season? I.E. would he have to sit out the year if there's a lockout/strike, or would he be able to play in Providence or go back to juniors? If he can't play if there's a work stoppage, then he certainly shouldn't make the team, even if he deserves it. Either way, I think another year in juniors is the best option, but I agree with letting him see some NHL action... partly for selfish reasons. I wanna see the kid play.

first, the b's have until oct 7th to sign bergeron. if they sign him, he can play 9 games on the NHL level before his contract kicks in for the first year. so, they could give him a look-see in the beginning, and then send him back. i would seriously doubt that he'd be around for more than a few games, if any, but he's certainly got me excited for the future.

WHERE'S ZINA?????????????????????? i've got a bottle of smirnoff waiting for him :joker:

Harry Sinbin 09-19-2003 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBBBruin
If Bergeron were to make the team, what would his status be for next season? I.E. would he have to sit out the year if there's a lockout/strike, or would he be able to play in Providence or go back to juniors? If he can't play if there's a work stoppage, then he certainly shouldn't make the team, even if he deserves it. Either way, I think another year in juniors is the best option, but I agree with letting him see some NHL action... partly for selfish reasons. I wanna see the kid play.

I'm pretty sure that he would either have to sit or go back to junior (no AHL) and it would be Bergeron's choice. At least that is how it worked last lockout for players in the same situation.

Not that I saw the game, but an overtime winner against Montreal is a nice debut even if it is pre-season.

Gee Wally 09-19-2003 04:19 AM

I posted above my thoughts on this , didn't see this thread..

But I was /am VERY impressed with this kid Bergeron..
What I saw of him..aside from the usual okay skot, okay skating okay grit.....the kid "get's it " as Bill Parcells would say..
He has "ice vision " for a loack of better term.. What I saw was him "scanning his options " before taking a hit. Not just chasing a puck on the "D" transition but figuring out what to do with it before he got it.

A lot of skills can be taught to an extent and honed.
Instinct and smarts , the "toolbox" , either you have it or don't.

In most cases I'm a supporter for nuturing in Juniors and AHL.. but if a kid can CONSISTENTLY show he has "it" as DKH says above..then you have to think real hard about letting him play.
based on what I saw. Based on what others have posted and based upon what I have read...I'm of the mind that if young Mr. Bergeron keeps it up thru pre-season than you have to keep him here for at least the 10 Regular season games.
Beyond that... if he is playing at an NHL level.. he should stay...

Bruwinz37 09-19-2003 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gee Wally
I posted above my thoughts on this , didn't see this thread..

But I was /am VERY impressed with this kid Bergeron..
What I saw of him..aside from the usual okay skot, okay skating okay grit.....the kid "get's it " as Bill Parcells would say..
He has "ice vision " for a loack of better term.. What I saw was him "scanning his options " before taking a hit. Not just chasing a puck on the "D" transition but figuring out what to do with it before he got it.

A lot of skills can be taught to an extent and honed.
Instinct and smarts , the "toolbox" , either you have it or don't.

In most cases I'm a supporter for nuturing in Juniors and AHL.. but if a kid can CONSISTENTLY show he has "it" as DKH says above..then you have to think real hard about letting him play.
based on what I saw. Based on what others have posted and based upon what I have read...I'm of the mind that if young Mr. Bergeron keeps it up thru pre-season than you have to keep him here for at least the 10 Regular season games.
Beyond that... if he is playing at an NHL level.. he should stay...

I agree, if nothing else just for the 9 or so games to give him a taste of the big time. Worse comes to worse it is too much for him after 9 games, he goes back to Juniors and probably scores 130 pts. I highly doubt that he will spend one more year back in Juniors. The kid is simply doing too much and impressing too many to not make the team next year.

This is turning out to be one heckuva draft for MOC already with the genral feeling that Stuart is a certain NHL caliber D and Marjamaki showing some good stuff as well.

Killerbeez 09-19-2003 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
I agree, if nothing else just for the 9 or so games to give him a taste of the big time. Worse comes to worse it is too much for him after 9 games, he goes back to Juniors and probably scores 130 pts. I highly doubt that he will spend one more year back in Juniors. The kid is simply doing too much and impressing too many to not make the team next year.

This is turning out to be one heckuva draft for MOC already with the genral feeling that Stuart is a certain NHL caliber D and Marjamaki showing some good stuff as well.

I think that's a great approach, much like the caps did with emiger last year. Gives the kid a good look, an idea of what to expect and a taste of where he "wants to be". Worst case the kid knows exactly what to work on before next camp. Best case we have a 2nd or 3rd line center for the next 10 years.

misterjaggers 09-19-2003 05:58 AM

"...This is going to be hype and great if it is....some bright sunshine and somethng for the other eye to do during Broon season. Bergeron-Zinovjev will be interesting for Broon fans for a change- and they were not first rounders but guys all 30 teams had a shot at and passed atleast once. .. This management somehow has gotten accentuating the positives and not the negatives on Broon future.

Will they both make it? two second rounders as top 6 forwards? has happened but just not in Broon land. And if it does we may be going back 20-25 years ago ...

If this starts happening, MOC has done something that will have everyone smiling around here."

I think Scott Bradley deserves alot of credit, don't you?

Gee Wally 09-19-2003 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misterjaggers

I think Scott Bradley deserves alot of credit, don't you?


absolutely !

it's been a loooong time since I've been this upbeat about our picks and prospects...


:handclap:

Duguay 09-19-2003 06:54 AM

True
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gee Wally
absolutely !

it's been a loooong time since I've been this upbeat about our picks and prospects...
:handclap:

This staff does certainly deserve credit in this area.

Remember the days of waiting, and hoping for Cameron Mann to finally break out? He was our only new hope - it seemed like.

Things have changed in the last 5 years, and O'Connell should get credit for this.

Now there's a whole plethora of talent to watch, and we don't have to get excited over a prospect like Anders Myrvold.

Robbed by Lacroix; but I think lessons have been learned.

Newfie Bruin 09-19-2003 08:15 AM

Does everyone agree that Bergeron is a 6.5...I don't!

sagginb 09-19-2003 09:54 AM

A nice little thingie about Bergeron is that he is right handed...all Regular Bruins and most prospects that seem able to play...or slotted at center are lefty for this team.

Thornton, Rolston, Zinovjev, Vernarsky, Stock, Hilbert, Herr and Donato are all left handed.

It a small thing and him being so young it might be best for him to go back to juniors.
The Bruins have to be really excited to have a nice little prospect in Bergeron...playing him with talented players also show how much the coaches see in his ability.

What do they do if he continues to play well???
I guess you give him a longer look (as they are doing).
It's cool to be able to keep a junior player around for those (9 is it?) games...maybe he will be here early on this season.
Alot might also ride on Zinovjev look when he arrives.

What if both impress?????...so much they play their way onto the team???

amazingcrwns 09-19-2003 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagginb
What if both impress?????...so much they play their way onto the team???


Then we have some more options down the middle. Zinovjev or Rolston could move to the wing if both play their way onto the team. I don't know what I'd do for a lineup, I like the idea of Samsanov and Zinovjev on the same line, We could put Rollie on the front line with Joe and Muzz. Knuble at RW with Sammy and Zino/a. and Burgeron centering Lapointe and Axelsson. With Zam Stock and McCarthy rounding out the Forwards (Zam for PK situations and McCarthy and Stock doing what they do.)

Gee Wally 09-19-2003 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceyalone
Why not sign him to Prov. instead of wasting another year in junior?


It's against the by- laws..to protect Junior Hockey..

He either stays here or goes back to his junior team.. thems the rules.

Harry Sinbin 09-19-2003 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceyalone
Why not sign him to Prov. instead of wasting another year in junior?

He's too young to be assigned to the AHL. Besides, I don't think another year of junior would be a waste for a guy who has only played one year at that level and has yet to dominate there.

Bruwinz37 09-19-2003 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Sinbin
He's too young to be assigned to the AHL. Besides, I don't think another year of junior would be a waste for a guy who has only played one year at that level and has yet to dominate there.

I think what the poster meant was for next season if there is a lockout. I have no doubt he will dominate the Q this year, and if there is NHL next year he will be on the big club.

sagginb 09-19-2003 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gee Wally
It's against the by- laws..to protect Junior Hockey..

He either stays here or goes back to his junior team.. thems the rules.

That is the part that really sucks...he can play here but not with the P-B's...been this road before with other players.
I think the B's would be wise to send him back at least for another season..the big league lineup should have more depth down the middle.
It's really nice to see a little depth at center starting to show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amazingcrwns
Then we have some more options down the middle. Zinovjev or Rolston could move to the wing if both play their way onto the team. I don't know what I'd do for a lineup, I like the idea of Samsanov and Zinovjev on the same line, We could put Rollie on the front line with Joe and Muzz. Knuble at RW with Sammy and Zino/a. and Burgeron centering Lapointe and Axelsson. With Zam Stock and McCarthy rounding out the Forwards (Zam for PK situations and McCarthy and Stock doing what they do.)

I will say (at least for camp talk fun) it would be awesome for both Zinovjev and Bergeron to play so well that the B's felt like the have to keep them both in the lineup...at least for the first few games.
Yes alot of options would be at the hands of Sully to build effective line combos.
I also like the "thought" of Samsonov and Zinovjev being able to play a little together and see if they work well together.
Again...if true that Zinovjev is slick at faceoff and a decent playmaker and line on Samsonov/Zinovjev/Lapointe would look great on paper to me.
Also if Bergeron was to make the team for the early going (9 game extended tryout) it might be very interesting for sure.

Gee Wally 09-19-2003 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Dirtbag



Knuble - Thornton - Murray
Samsonov - Bergeron - LaPointe
Axelsson - Rolston - Zinovjev
Zaumner - Stock - McCarthy

Extras:

Hilbert
Huml
Grosek
Donato


I'd only swapped Zino and Lapointe..Axe can be defensively aware for the third line... While from what I read somewhere LaPointe has become a mentor already to young Mr. Bergeron.. Plus marty adds some grit to the second line..

sagginb 09-19-2003 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Dirtbag
From Today's Boston Globe:

"The Bruins won their exhibition opener, 1-0, in overtime on center Patrice Bergeron's one-timer from the left circle with 1:14 gone in the extra session. Brian Rolston set up the 18-year-old for the winner on the power play. Bergeron has been the biggest revelation in camp. It was believed he was going to head back to his junior team in Acadie-Bathurst but so far, he's making a case at the NHL level. "I think we're going to hang onto him and let him play and let him continue to show us his skills," said coach Mike Sullivan"

This statement really makes things interesting up front:

Samsonov - Thornton - Murray
Knuble - Bergeron - Rolston
Axelsson - Zinovjev - Lapointe
Zamuner - Stock - McCarthy

or

Knuble - Thornton - Murray
Samsonov - Bergeron - Zinovjev
Axelsson - Rolston - Lapointe
Zaumner - Stock - McCarthy

Extras:

Hilbert
Huml
Grosek
Donato

If both Bergeron and Zinovjev make the roster then I don't see alot of room for the likes of Hilbert...his days have to be numbered...unless he decided to play better to get noticed.

How about...
Knuble/Thornton/Murray
Axelsson/Rolston/Zinovjev
Samsonov/Bergeron/Lapointe
Zamuner/Donato/McCarthy

with Stock and Grosek as scratches...

This would put the kids with solid veteran talent.
I must say I don't know if the Bruins would keep both Bergeron and Zinovjev at this point but it is fun to hope both can make a solid impact. :yo:

don 09-19-2003 11:50 AM

Knuble - Thornton - Murray
Samsonov - Bergeron - Lapointe
Axelsson - Rolston - Grosek
VanOene - Stock - Mc

Bruwinz37 09-19-2003 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagginb
If both Bergeron and Zinovjev make the roster then I don't see alot of room for the likes of Hilbert...his days have to be numbered...unless he decided to play better to get noticed.

How about...
Knuble/Thornton/Murray
Axelsson/Rolston/Zinovjev
Samsonov/Bergeron/Lapointe
Zamuner/Donato/McCarthy

with Stock and Grosek as scratches...

This would put the kids with solid veteran talent.
I must say I don't know if the Bruins would keep both Bergeron and Zinovjev at this point but it is fun to hope both can make a solid impact. :yo:

I am thoroughly confused as to why you think Ted Donato is going to make this team and guys like Stock and Grosek will be scratches. Is it me, or is Ted Donato 3 years removed from having any redeeming qualities as an NHL player.

sagginb 09-19-2003 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
I am thoroughly confused as to why you think Ted Donato is going to make this team and guys like Stock and Grosek will be scratches. Is it me, or is Ted Donato 3 years removed from having any redeeming qualities as an NHL player.

I am a "lack of center depth" crazy Bruins fan...that's about the only way I could explain it.... :dunno:

I think the Bruins are sooo weak with veteran centers Sully will decide he likes having a veteran like Donato on the 4th line to help with faceoffs and playing in his own end.
I also don't view Stock as a valuable center even on the 4th line...I like his toughness and him being in the lineup but to call him a value to the coach as a center is not that high...I see him able to play there ok eough but I would use him on the LW more so...if we had other options down the middle.
I also hate...HATE...the fact anyone would play Grosek at center...
I do think Grosek could add limited value to a weaker line as a guy who will get into the mix and play tough on the boards and around the net.
I think a line of Samsonov/Zinovjev/Grosek could be effective on paper...but choose Lapointe over him at this point on the Rightside.

I just always saw Donato as a good little 3rd line center back when he was with the Bruins...we seemed to try to make him into a top 2 line LW'er...but at the time that is what we needed...he played that role ok...but in the playoffs one year (long ago) against Montreal he played a chippy style which kinda sold me that he has the desire to compete to win...it's just always come down to the fact teams looks for goals from him for some reason....I think If you place him at center and not ask him to score too often and play solid "D" and work on faceoffs and just support the club he can still be effective...IMO.

If the Bruins had any veteran depth at center then no way I see them using him much but the fact they do not I had a feeling he just might be right for a good season back here...maybe I'm wrong but until I see the likes of Grosek, Stock, Hilbert, Zamuner and still Zinovjev do anything effective at center I have him as a safty net at 4th line center...good....not really but it's my thinking...at this point.

BTW...I have not seen any of camp and the games has Sully been using Donato at center...?????

hubofhockey 09-19-2003 01:12 PM

Good news on Zino
 
Zino is due in Boston this evening (Friday) and should be skating with B's in Sat. practice. Enjoy.

MeisterBruinmaker 09-19-2003 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gee Wally
It's against the by- laws..to protect Junior Hockey..

He either stays here or goes back to his junior team.. thems the rules.

This is right. The way it works is that first, as Neelynugs said, the Bruins would have to sign Bergeron to a two-way rookie contract. Rookie contracts are standard three-year deals. I don't recall what the maximum rookie salary for a player drafted in 2003 is, but I do know that for 2001 is was $1.13 million US per year. That does not include signing and performance bonuses.

Once a contract is in place, Under NHL rules, Bergeron is allowed to play 10 games in the NHL before the big league side of his contract kicks in. At this point, he gets paid for the year regardless of whether he sits, plays in Boston or is sent down to Juniors.

In addition, should he go beyond 10 games, he loses a year of exemption from waiver draft, and he would have to clear waivers to be sent to the minors 1 year sooner than the normal 3 year rule for NHL players.

As a player drafted from Juniors, he cannot play in the AHL until after he is no longer eligible for Junior league status - which happens when he reaches the age of 20. However, the Bruins are allowed to send him to Providence for a two-week conditioning stint.

ThorntoNeely198 09-19-2003 01:20 PM

Question...

I know it's not done as a matter of course, but is it possible to call up and demote a young player to/from his Junior hockey club to Boston as you would with a player in Providence?


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