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Volcanologist 01-21-2005 01:50 PM

NHL to redistribute talent
 
http://www.thn.com/en/headlines/deta...t=954945254360

Quote:

Batterman is said to have told Linden that the league would use a dispersal system to shift players from high-payroll teams to low-payroll clubs in order to get all teams between the salary floor and ceiling range.
Wow.

I don't think a lot of teams are going to like that, including ours.

mooseOAK* 01-21-2005 01:57 PM

That only makes sense if there is some sort of revenue sharing agreement among the teams.

Dar 01-21-2005 02:01 PM

That's what Bettman was talking about when he said "there'll be no grandfathering but there's a plan in place"?

You gotta be kidding me. How can he claim that all teams are in step with his program when he's claiming he'll take the like of Sundin, Blake or Lidstrom away from their respective teams and place them in Pittsburgh, Nashville or Carolina.

No way the Leafs, Wings etc. go for this.

They also say that players would have no more say in how the NHL is run than auto workers?

Score another PR point for the players.

Volcanologist 01-21-2005 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
That only makes sense if there is some sort of revenue sharing agreement among the teams.

http://www.thn.com/en/headlines/deta...t=954945254360

Quote:

According to multiple sources, Linden told players the NHL refuses to discuss any payroll tax system at any level and is also opposed to real revenue sharing.
:dunno:

DutchLeafsfan 01-21-2005 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dar
No way the Leafs, Wings etc. go for this.


Maybe the idea is to put the Nolans, Briseboises, Yashins and Grattons on the Pens, Caps and others :dunno:;)

mooseOAK* 01-21-2005 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese

I agree. It doesn't make sense to give any team that is trying to build their team in their own way a bill for $5 million or so.

Dar 01-21-2005 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchLeafsfan
Maybe the idea is to put the Nolans, Briseboises, Yashins and Grattons on the Pens, Caps and others :dunno:;)

I can picture that.
NHL: "With the last overall selection, Columbus"
GM: "Who's left?"
Asst. GM: "Yashin & Belak."
GM "How many years left on Yashin's contract?"
Asst. GM: "Twenty one"
GM: "Pass"
NHL: "You can't pass."
GM: "I didn't agree to those terms."
MM: under breath.."please please please"
GM: "Belak"
Asst. GM: "He's useless."
GM: "How many years on his contract?"
.
.
.
Why would GM's pick up other's overpaid trash? More importantly, what would happen to these players when nobody selects them, they're under contract, so the signing team I'm sure would still have to honour it or buy it out. Or does the NHL in turn say to them "Okay nobody wanted Nolan, try McCabe instead, but you gotta shed $8 million in salaries."

Stupid, stupid idea. Another example, if Nieuwendyk chose to play for less to be on the Leafs but the Leafs were forced to expose him, how fair is it for him to have to report to the Pens at that reduced amount. What Union would go for that? Why would Illitch be okay with that?

richardn 01-21-2005 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchLeafsfan
Maybe the idea is to put the Nolans, Briseboises, Yashins and Grattons on the Pens, Caps and others :dunno:;)


How is this a fair idea. What will the Leafs get in compensation for Nolan if the league simply said Nolan now playw for the Pens etc. I would rather see the NHL fold and start a smaller league with new teams and a fantasy draft then this.

Christ 01-21-2005 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchLeafsfan
Maybe the idea is to put the Nolans, Briseboises, Yashins and Grattons on the Pens, Caps and others :dunno:;)

Perhaps we should look at this solution from the standpoint of the small market teams who are all of a sudden going to find themselves with superstars. Yes it will be nice to have a couple of star players on those teams but do you think that the management of the Caps, Pens and others are really going to be thrilled with these players.

The Pens were according to their front office barely treading water with the lowest payroll in the league. Why would they want big name players with the salaries that come with them? I am sure Yashin would be loved there. :amazed:

The Caps were in the middle of a rebuilding phase stocking up on young talented and cheep players, do you think that they would want to change that strategy? I think not. The star players do not attract big crowds in Washington (I know a few caps fans who will attest to this fact) and if they don't draw a crowd then why would management want them.

My point is I think very few teams would like it if Bettman simply redistributed the talent in the NHL.

goonitup 01-21-2005 02:21 PM

Wonderful idea. Take the high priced players off the teams that could afford them while turning a profit. Then place them on teams that are already bleeding financially without the bloated salaries.

Brilliant!

Some poster has a good Damien Cox quote that applies here. Something like: "How can a team that's losing money on a 20Mil budget suddenly be profitable with a 30Mil budget under the propsed CBA?"

Mess 01-21-2005 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
http://www.thn.com/en/headlines/detail.asp?id=26897&cat=954945254360

Wow.

I don't think a lot of teams are going to like that, including ours.

Isn't that what I was telling you all along that you should not hold out hope for Pronger's and Kovalev's and Kariya's and the goal of the league it to place those players and ones that HIGH SALARY teams have to remove in a Salary Cap world of spending restraints on the weak sisters of the NHL to create parity. Fuelled further that profit sharing from the Rich will go to the Poor to help pay those players salaries to boot

That is your all teams will need to spend between 32-35 million comment that you hear from Bettman all the time.

That was always the case PEP .. You were just in Denial ... and why do you think the players are fighting so hard against Bettman to avoid that situation from happening ??..

That is what a HARD CAP does and is designed to do ... Plain and Simple ..

Like I mentioned before the teams like the Atlanta's and Florida that great young inexpensive core's of its star players with the addition of the highly skilled vets ..will see that big market older teams fall to the bottom of the standings and the weak ones rise.

The bottom line it all about money $$ . The route of all evil . and how can our team complain they are going to make Millions in additional profit in light of this move and they will be totally immune from Fan criticism for lack of product on the ice ..because they will just turn and say we can't spend anymore to address that concern .. We are doing the best we can with what we have in the new NHL.

ULF_55 01-21-2005 02:44 PM

I love this plan.

Line up the players in order of contract value.

Selection based on last years draft order and then force that team to take the highest contract.

Washington is forced to take: Jagr :joker: :joker:
Pittsburgh is forced to take: Forsberg with the broken wrist

Tampa with the 30th. highest contract selects ...

Volcanologist 01-21-2005 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Isn't that what I was telling you all along that you should not hold out hope for Pronger's and Kovalev's and Kariya's and the goal of the league it to place those players and ones that HIGH SALARY teams have to remove in a Salary Cap world of spending restraints on the weak sisters of the NHL to create parity. Fuelled further that profit sharing from the Rich will go to the Poor to help pay those players salaries to boot

That is your all teams will need to spend between 32-35 million comment that you hear from Bettman all the time.

That was always the case PEP .. You were just in Denial ... and why do you think the players are fighting so hard against Bettman to avoid that situation from happening ??..

Oh please...you are such a frontrunner it's pathetic.

Just yesterday you were telling me how the Leafs were going to trade Nolan or Leetch for Pronger.

Now you're changing your mind again.

richardn 01-21-2005 02:47 PM

I don't think it would be right and fair to the players I bet Roberts or Mogiliny would rather retire then be forced to leave the team and report to a team like Washington. I don't really see the players ever agreeing to this by any sort.

Mess 01-21-2005 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dar
That's what Bettman was talking about when he said "there'll be no grandfathering but there's a plan in place"?

You gotta be kidding me. How can he claim that all teams are in step with his program when he's claiming he'll take the like of Sundin, Blake or Lidstrom away from their respective teams and place them in Pittsburgh, Nashville or Carolina.

No way the Leafs, Wings etc. go for this.

They also say that players would have no more say in how the NHL is run than auto workers?

Score another PR point for the players.

That's right Dar .. That is what Bettman was talking about ....

Problem being is that I think the majority of owners that Bettman needs in a vote is a very small percentage .. I think its something like 50% +1 to get the new CBA approved and through ...

So that makes 16 teams in favour of this, the other 15 other teams including mostly the big market teams votes are irrelevant in the process as their votes do not count and are not enough from stoping Bettman and his Utopia NHL..

All to cover up really poor expansion ideas in non-hockey markets that are bleeding the NHL dry .. The solution should really be cut the bottom out and then lower salaries and even the playing surface .. but its not and that is life ..

Dar 01-21-2005 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
So that makes 16 teams in favour of this, the other 15 other teams including mostly the big market teams votes are irrelevant in the process as their votes do not count and are not enough from stoping Bettman and his Utopia NHL..

Just about the right number for an alternative with the highest level of hockey. Maybe ask Winnipeg if they'd like to round it out to 16.

ULF_55 01-21-2005 02:56 PM

Can you imagine the owners who are hearing this for the first time?

You couldn't script a bigger buffoon than Bettman being lead around by senile old men like Wirtz and Jacobs.

A laughing stock of North American professional sports.

Mess 01-21-2005 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Oh please...you are such a frontrunner it's pathetic.

Just yesterday you were telling me how the Leafs were going to trade Nolan or Leetch for Pronger.

Now you're changing your mind again.

Front runner nothing .. It was just mine and many many others intrepation of what Bettman is trying to do by what he is saying and sometimes not saying if you read between the lines, and see what impact that would have.

I really don't understand how you don't see how trading a $6 million dollar player for another $ 6 million dollar player a Salary Cap world is NO different from an UFA signing of a $ 6 million dollar player in a guaranteed Salary world .. :dunno:

The first has ZERO impact on a Cap .. the second has a $ 6 million dollar PLUS impact .. that would then require the team to figure out how to drop that amount to fit in under a cap ..in any combination of players that makes up $ 6 million in salary..

If Toronto trades Sundin for Pronger the NHL rules nor the Cap system can prevent this .. but signing Pronger as an UFA that puts you over a cap is a whole different animal ..

Not sure how you see me changing my position on anything, as Each situation is different and these situations are as different as night and day.. IMO

Not sure why you are getting mad at me .. I have no influence at all in this situation and the only thing I may be guity of is trying to lower the optomism of the over enthused in the current situation .. because of what was being said..

Mess 01-21-2005 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULF_55
Can you imagine the owners who are hearing this for the first time?

You couldn't script a bigger buffoon than Bettman being lead around by senile old men like Wirtz and Jacobs.

A laughing stock of North American professional sports.

Do you still have that ..2 years vision of the Toronto roster and what the team will look like again .. It will be quite fitting to post it in this thread again ...

To refresh our memories ..

Volcanologist 01-21-2005 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
I really don't understand how you don't see how trading a $6 million dollar player for another $ 6 million dollar player a Salary Cap world is NO different from an UFA signing of a $ 6 million dollar player in a guaranteed Salary world .. :dunno:

That was MY position...it ISN'T different.

That's why I asked you what the difference was between "trading one big salary for another", as you suggested yesterday, and cutting old salary and replacing it with the same amount in UFAs.

There is no difference.

That is why you contradicted yourself.

Now you're trying to tell me you occupied MY position in the argument, because you know I'm right.

Quote:

The first has ZERO impact on a Cap .. the second has a $ 6 million dollar PLUS impact .. that would then require the team to figure out how to drop that amount to fit in under a cap ..in any combination of players that makes up $ 6 million in salary..

If Toronto trades Sundin for Pronger the NHL rules nor the Cap system can prevent this .. but signing Pronger as an UFA that puts you over a cap is a whole different animal ..
NOW you're saying it's totally different???

Is it that you don't understand how I don't see the difference, or that it's totally different?

Which is it?

Quote:

Not sure why you are getting mad at me .. I have no influence at all in this situation and the only thing I may be guity of is trying to lower the optomism of the over enthused in the current situation .. because of what was being said..
I'm not getting mad, I'm just amused at how you are trying to confuse me, and failing.

You went on and on about how the Leafs couldn't afford any salaries, because of the cap, no matter how they did it.

Then yesterday you claimed they COULD get these players, by trading salaries of our own, as long as the outgoing and incoming monies matched.

Now you're saying you knew the Leafs would have to just dump their players all along.

BringGilmourBack 01-21-2005 05:32 PM

:)
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Messenger
Isn't that what I was telling you all along that you should not hold out hope for Pronger's and Kovalev's and Kariya's and the goal of the league it to place those players and ones that HIGH SALARY teams have to remove in a Salary Cap world of spending restraints on the weak sisters of the NHL to create parity. Fuelled further that profit sharing from the Rich will go to the Poor to help pay those players salaries to boot

That is your all teams will need to spend between 32-35 million comment that you hear from Bettman all the time.

That was always the case PEP .. You were just in Denial ... and why do you think the players are fighting so hard against Bettman to avoid that situation from happening ??..

That is what a HARD CAP does and is designed to do ... Plain and Simple ..

Like I mentioned before the teams like the Atlanta's and Florida that great young inexpensive core's of its star players with the addition of the highly skilled vets ..will see that big market older teams fall to the bottom of the standings and the weak ones rise.

The bottom line it all about money $$ . The route of all evil . and how can our team complain they are going to make Millions in additional profit in light of this move and they will be totally immune from Fan criticism for lack of product on the ice ..because they will just turn and say we can't spend anymore to address that concern .. We are doing the best we can with what we have in the new NHL.


I think Toronto should go out and sign Kariya :)

ULF_55 01-21-2005 05:40 PM

I think the better approach is to make every player who fits the new UFA age (27/28) a UFA.

Tear up their contracts and let them chose who they want to play for at their reduced rates.

Gone from the Leafs:

Sundin
McCabe
Leetch
Nolan
Belfour
Mogilny
Roberts
Nieuwendyk
Klee
Domi

anyone else?


All these boys would be UFA.

Just blow it up!!!!

Lobstertainment 01-21-2005 05:57 PM

Quote:

He warned the players that any future offer from the league that included a hard cap would be strictly a public relations move and would be rejected by the union executive.
Wow...hasn't even been drawn up yet and it's already rejected.

Minus PR point for the PA

ULF_55 01-21-2005 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJTOM
Wow...hasn't even been drawn up yet and it's already rejected.

Minus PR point for the PA


Management trumped with the right bower with the redistribution statement.

Nothing the players say can be more halarious than that.

Lobstertainment 01-21-2005 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULF_55
Management trumped with the right bower with the redistribution statement.

Nothing the players say can be more halarious than that.

Esche: "We will not accept a 200 or 300 million dollar cap"

>_>

I found that to be hillarious.

that said the Re-distrubuting is god awful as well

why can't they just put in a 1 or 2 year period to get under and stay under the damned cap?

how does it help Washington to get Yashin who will take away time from Ovechkin and is probably a locker room distraction.

still the idea that the owners next proposal is going to be crap and will be rejected is an awful thing to say, how exactly are you bargining in "good faith" if you won't even open your mind.

hell the owners havn't even drawn it up yet and it's going to be rejected? give me a friggin break.

Both sides are to blame for all this but if they are going to go in with a closed mind then they have already lost.


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