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-   -   Shane Doan II... Doan you forget about me.... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1250993)

WhoIsJimBob 08-24-2012 02:00 PM

Shane Doan II... Doan you forget about me....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood (Post 53829367)
Who was Doan playing with in Pheonix? I think Vanek would be considered an upgrade. Its a good match. Doan in the corners with Vanek and Hodgson.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...11+13+29+31+33

Langkow

But, Doan's 14 PP Pts will be hard to reproduce as I doubt he's on the Sabres #1 PP Unit. Heck, he might not get much PP time at all here.

ZZamboni 08-24-2012 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyed (Post 53829411)
There is no such thing as a recruiting issue.


I guess Crosby and Malkin suck and are hated because they couldn't get Parise and Suter to sign there, right? The Penns must not have a reputation for winning and being a cup contender. They're obviously a joke in the league, right?

:facepalm: that's not what he's saying. Read it again, slowly this time.

SabresAreScaryGood 08-24-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53829555)
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...11+13+29+31+33

Langkow

But, Doan's 14 PP Pts will be hard to reproduce as I doubt he's on the Sabres #1 PP Unit. Heck, he might not get much PP time at all here.


Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville
Doan - Ennis - Stafford

WhoIsJimBob 08-24-2012 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood (Post 53829695)
Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville
Doan - Ennis - Stafford

Over the past three seasons, Doan has gotten 3:11 to 3:45 PPTOI/G.

Over the past three seasons, the Sabres 2nd PP Unit has averaged around 2:15 to 2:30 PPTOI/G.

New Sabres Captain 08-24-2012 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood (Post 53829695)
Vanek - Hodgson - Pominville
Doan - Ennis - Stafford

Vanek-Hodgson-Doan-Pominville-Dman
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford-Dman-Dman

SabresAreScaryGood 08-24-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53829865)
Over the past three seasons, Doan has gotten 3:11 to 3:45 PPTOI/G.

Over the past three seasons, the Sabres 2nd PP Unit has averaged around 2:15 to 2:30 PPTOI/G.

So he drops to 8-10 PP points. Goes up in even strength points playing with Vanek.

SabresAreScaryGood 08-24-2012 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs (Post 53829925)
Vanek-Hodgson-Doan-Pominville-Dman
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford-Dman-Dman

That would probably be what Ruff does since he likes Poms on the point, Im not the biggest fan of Poms on the point though. I dont know how others feel about Poms on the point.

WhoIsJimBob 08-24-2012 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood (Post 53829951)
So he drops to 8-10 PP points. Goes up in even strength points playing with Vanek.

He'll probably get less ES Ice Time, too.

Over the past three seasons, Doan has gotten around 15:10 ESTOI/G and Vanek has gotten around 13:30 ESTOI/G.

I would be really surprised if Doan were to hit 50pts this season in Buffalo.

smitty10 08-24-2012 02:23 PM

Hopefully for your sake Doan doesn't sign the offer. For a soon to be 36 year old who put up only 50 points last year, this potential contract could become one of the worst contracts in the NHL very quickly.

Not sure how many of you here follow the Blue Jays, but a few years ago when they opened up the cheque books and signed/traded for A.J. Burnett, B.J. Ryan and Troy Glaus and re-signed Vernon Wells to a massive $126m contract we thought we were getting three very good, veteran players who'd push the Jays to make the playoffs. Clearly that didn't happen and the Blue Jays have only recently recovered from that fiasco. Signings like this aren't the answer to Buffalo's problems. In a salary cap situation, hope to god that Doan doesn't sign that deal or that management will withdraw the offer or this could be an absolute disaster of a contract. I highly doubt a 39 year old Doan is worth $7.5m per year, especially if he's putting up under 50 points.

SabresAreScaryGood 08-24-2012 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53830059)
He'll probably get less ES Ice Time, too.

Over the past three seasons, Doan has gotten around 15:10 ESTOI/G and Vanek has gotten around 13:30 ESTOI/G.

I would be really surprised if Doan were to hit 50pts this season in Buffalo.

If Ruff played Doan with Vanek and on one of the PP units he will be close to 50.

I think it all matters how well Doan handles being 36. I mean Teppo Numminen was huge for us at age 37 and 38, and RUff used him on the PP and PK units.

WhoIsJimBob 08-24-2012 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood (Post 53830323)
If Ruff played Doan with Vanek and on one of the PP units he will be close to 50.

I think it all matters how well Doan handles being 36. I mean Teppo Numminen was huge for us at age 37 and 38, and RUff used him on the PP and PK.

I think you are underestimating the effect that Doan moving to a new team, city, and conference would have on his production.

There would be a ton of acclimation that Doan would have to do that would likely have a negative effect on his production.

That's one reason why so many guys who change teams have down years in the first season with their new club.

It's overly optimistic to believe that Doan at 36yo coming to Buffalo would be immune from all of that. Especially when you add in the drop in ice time.

ZZamboni 08-24-2012 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53830399)
I think you are underestimating the effect that Doan moving to a new team, city, and conference would have on his production.

There would be a ton of acclimation that Doan would have to do that would likely have a negative effect on his production.

That's one reason why so many guys who change teams have down years in the first season with their new club.

It's overly optimistic to believe that Doan at 36yo coming to Buffalo would be immune from all of that. Especially when you add in the drop in ice time.

Unless the talent surrounding Doan is better in Buffalo than who he played with in Phoenix. Then he may get 50+ points. :dunno:

WhoIsJimBob 08-24-2012 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 53830465)
Unless the talent surrounding Doan is better in Buffalo than who he played with in Phoenix. Then he may get 50+ points. :dunno:

It will still take time for Doan to settle in with the new linemates, new system, etc.

It won't be seamless.

SabresAreScaryGood 08-24-2012 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53830399)
I think you are underestimating the effect that Doan moving to a new team, city, and conference would have on his production.

There would be a ton of acclimation that Doan would have to do that would likely have a negative effect on his production.

That's one reason why so many guys who change teams have down years in the first season with their new club.

It's overly optimistic to believe that Doan at 36yo coming to Buffalo would be immune from all of that. Especially when you add in the drop in ice time.

Some older players changing teams recently have done ok, Ray Whitney, Eric Cole, Vinny Prospal.

I mean its not like it doesnt happen. We saw Teppo. Like I said, Im not worried so much about year 1 and 2, its year 3 and 4 I would worry about. Might be better off going with a guy that you know what your getting from the start, we know who Doan is as a player. I dont think Ruff would ask Doan to do something he didnt already do.

Girgenburger 08-24-2012 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 53827403)
After reading this I thought of this ...

http://donmilleris.com/wp-content/up...09/pouting.jpg

well that pretty much sums up how i'm feeling.

Jame 08-24-2012 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clock (Post 53825799)
But obviously you understand why I'd say that I don't think that acquiring Doan necessarily leads to culture change, especially in a locker room that had issues with bringing in higher-paid UFAs. That was probably Roy, who's gone, but that in itself is probably a nice cultural change as is.

I get where you're coming from - I just don't accept the opportunity risks.

i just dont see the cap space as much risk... since i dont see any significant free agents coming here until we change the identity of the franchise into a perrenial contender... and that will take close to the life of doan's ridiculous contract.

I also don't see it hindering the franchise in keeping their own, as long as they rightfully let Vanek walk in 2 years.

The biggest risk the Sabres face is the youth movement not developing properly... anything that aids that development is a good move IMO.

dont over think it

Jame 08-24-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loods (Post 53825989)

This is a good point as well. You aren't just paying for the individual in signing Doan. You're paying for the domino effect that it could have in turning Buffalo into a winner. And when you're a winner, Getzlaf/Perry etc look your way to sign.

bingo...

couple that with the "grooming" affect on the youth...and you have plenty of reason to shovel doan a boatload of cash IMO

WhoIsJimBob 08-24-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 53830875)
bingo...

couple that with the "grooming" affect on the youth...and you have plenty of reason to shovel doan a boatload of cash IMO

When has Doan ever led a domino effect that turned a team into a winner?

SabresAreScaryGood 08-24-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53830943)
When has Doan ever led a domino effect that turned a team into a winner?

Thats a convenient argument since he only played for a cheap organization.

Myllz 08-24-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53830943)
When has Doan ever led a domino effect that turned a team into a winner?

Pretty much why the word "could" is there.

WhoIsJimBob 08-24-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood (Post 53831173)
Thats a convenient argument since he only played for a cheap organization.

And coming to an organization that has been spending, but perhaps not all that wisely will help matters how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myllz (Post 53831195)
Pretty much why the word "could" is there.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

For that kind of money, I'd rather not bring in a guy that maybe will have this "culture changing" effect.

I'd much rather the Sabres pass and look at next year's culture changer.

Doan would be coming to Buffalo at the same age Doug Gilmour was when the Sabres traded for him. I'm guessing that Doan's "culture changing" effect would be about the same.

Bottom line: not worth that kind of coin.

SabresAreScaryGood 08-24-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53831243)
And coming to an organization that has been spending, but perhaps not all that wisely will help matters how?



Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

For that kind of money, I'd rather not bring in a guy that maybe will have this "culture changing" effect.

I'd much rather the Sabres pass and look at next year's culture changer.

Doan would be coming to Buffalo at the same age Doug Gilmour was when the Sabres traded for him. I'm guessing that Doan's "culture changing" effect would be about the same.

Bottom line: not worth that kind of coin.

Why not the Dave Andreychuk affect on the Lightning?

WhoIsJimBob 08-24-2012 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood (Post 53831383)
Why not the Dave Andreychuk affect on the Lightning?

That's more like the Marty, Vinny & Brad effect!

Plus, they didn't give Partychuk a monster contract.

SabresAreScaryGood 08-24-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 53831427)
That's more like the Marty, Vinny & Brad effect!

Plus, they didn't give Partychuk a monster contract.

Just like if the Sabres won it would be Miller, Vanek, and Pominville. This team needs a player like Doan in the worst way.

Chainshot 08-24-2012 03:26 PM

My opinion on Doan hasn't changed -- nice player, would be good to have at the right price. I don't view the reported $7.5M/4yr deal as the right price.


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