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-   -   Proposal: Columbus - Edmonton (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1252125)

High On Oil 08-27-2012 04:12 PM

Columbus - Edmonton
 
Hemsky + Potter*
for
Umberger + Savard/Moore

Both teams become more balanced in the top 6. Columbus has an excess of physical left wingers an could use on the right side. Edmonton could use Umberger's size in the top 6. Their contracts are comparable.*

Columbus also adds a more reliable 7th defenseman while Edmonton adds a prospect to develop in OKC.*

Umberger RNH Eberle
Hall Gagner Yakupov

Dubinsky Brassard Atkinson
Prospal Johansen Hemsky
Foligno Anisimov Dorsett

StringerBell 08-27-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mLian (Post 53898599)
Hemsky + Potter*
for
Umberger + Savard/Moore

Both teams become more balanced in the top 6. Columbus has an excess of physical left wingers an could use on the right side. Edmonton could use Umberger's size in the top 6. Their contracts are comparable.*

Columbus also adds a more reliable 7th defenseman while Edmonton adds a prospect to develop in OKC.*

Umberger RNH Eberle
Hall Gagner Yakupov

Dubinsky Brassard Atkinson
Prospal Johansen Hemsky
Foligno Anisimov Dorsett

On my phone so I cant see your Av, but I'm guessing you're not a Columbus fan.

Spitsfan67* 08-27-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mLian (Post 53898599)
Hemsky + Potter*
for
Umberger + Savard/Moore

Both teams become more balanced in the top 6. Columbus has an excess of physical left wingers an could use on the right side. Edmonton could use Umberger's size in the top 6. Their contracts are comparable.*

Columbus also adds a more reliable 7th defenseman while Edmonton adds a prospect to develop in OKC.*

Umberger RNH Eberle
Hall Gagner Yakupov

Dubinsky Brassard Atkinson
Prospal Johansen Hemsky
Foligno Anisimov Dorsett

Hemsky>>>>>Umberger

I think Potter has a tad bit more value then Savard or Moore,and I think Hemsky is a bit over rated but is still more valuable then umberger.....I think Columbus has to add like a 3rd round pick Or a prospect with a bit of upside.

CBJWennberg41 08-27-2012 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 (Post 53898793)
Hemsky>>>>>Umberger

I think Potter has a tad bit more value then Savard or Moore,and I think Hemsky is a bit over rated but is still more valuable then umberger.....I think Columbus has to add like a 3rd round pick Or a prospect with a bit of upside.

WTF?

Hell no.

StringerBell 08-27-2012 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 (Post 53898793)
Hemsky>>>>>Umberger

I think Potter has a tad bit more value then Savard or Moore,and I think Hemsky is a bit over rated but is still more valuable then umberger.....I think Columbus has to add like a 3rd round pick Or a prospect with a bit of upside.

Wow I totally disagree with everything you just posted. Regardless, Umberger's value to Columbus >> any other city IMO.

Crede777 08-27-2012 04:23 PM

Only if there's a pick coming from Edmonton conditional on Hemsky playing more than 75 games in the next NHL season for Columbus.

OilerTyler 08-27-2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 (Post 53898793)
Hemsky>>>>>Umberger

I think Potter has a tad bit more value then Savard or Moore,and I think Hemsky is a bit over rated but is still more valuable then umberger.....I think Columbus has to add like a 3rd round pick Or a prospect with a bit of upside.

Potter probably has negative value.

No one wants a career AHLer on a two year, one way deal. Players like Potter are a dime a dozen.

jumptheshark 08-27-2012 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mLian (Post 53898599)
Hemsky + Potter*
for
Umberger + Savard/Moore

Both teams become more balanced in the top 6. Columbus has an excess of physical left wingers an could use on the right side. Edmonton could use Umberger's size in the top 6. Their contracts are comparable.*

Columbus also adds a more reliable 7th defenseman while Edmonton adds a prospect to develop in OKC.*

Umberger RNH Eberle
Hall Gagner Yakupov

Dubinsky Brassard Atkinson
Prospal Johansen Hemsky
Foligno Anisimov Dorsett

BJS turn this one down flat

Roadman 08-27-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 (Post 53898793)
Hemsky>>>>>Umberger

I think Potter has a tad bit more value then Savard or Moore,and I think Hemsky is a bit over rated but is still more valuable then umberger.....I think Columbus has to add like a 3rd round pick Or a prospect with a bit of upside.

At least with Umberger you can figure on getting a full season from him something Hemsky has not been able to do for a while.

Potter may be a little further along, but think that Savard and Moore both have higher ceilings.

My response is no to the add, and no thanks to the OP.

Eskimo44 08-27-2012 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 (Post 53898793)
Hemsky>>>>>Umberger

I think Potter has a tad bit more value then Savard or Moore,and I think Hemsky is a bit over rated but is still more valuable then umberger.....I think Columbus has to add like a 3rd round pick Or a prospect with a bit of upside.

I agree that Hemsky is the better player, especially if you factor in contracts. However Potter is not worth anything close to a Savard or Moore. Personally i think this is a deal in favour of Edmonton. I could see Columbus packaging one of Savard or Moore in a deal, they have the depth.

I think this is a decent proposal to work off of, Edmonton just needs to add a little. However myself i am very adverse to trading Hemsky, given a bounceback season (not unreasonable considering his career and circumstances behind last season) he'd easily fetch something like Umberger+Moore/Savard in a trade. The Oilers are better off waiting it out with him.

Eskimo44 08-27-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadman (Post 53898967)
At least with Umberger you can figure on getting a full season from him something Hemsky has not been able to do for a while.

Potter may be a little further along, but think that Savard and Moore both have higher ceilings.

My response is no to the add, and no thanks to the OP.

Other than 2 games due to sinus/flu Hemsky only missed games this year to continue his rehab from his shoulder injury from the year before. Hemsky never missed a game this season due to a new injury. Also prior to the two shoulder injuries he missed on average around 10 games a year to injury over a 7 year span, 10 games btw is the league average for games missed. I agree Hemsky does have some injury risk, but it's a risk that is greatly exaggerated.

PierreMcGuire* 08-27-2012 05:16 PM

Doubt Columbus would move Umberger for anything short of overpayment. I'd also imagine Umberger holds greater trade value than Hemsky. Plus I can't see how Savard or Moore would hold less value than Potter. Columbus rejects the trade.

Viqsi 08-27-2012 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crede777 (Post 53898905)
Only if there's a pick coming from Edmonton conditional on Hemsky playing more than 75 games in the next NHL season for Columbus.

That would be the only condition under which I accept Hemsky in a deal. There are zero conditions under which the proposed deal or any deal like it would be acceptable. The number of physical wingers we have is arguably our only offensive strength, and something we're going to be leaning hard on going into the year.

I'd be very happy to add Hemsky (getting a skilled playmaking RW would be absolutely killer)... but this ain't the way it's gonna get done, nor do I see any ideas that would work to the mutual advantage of Columbus and Edmonton.

Also, the suggestion that Potter is somehow superior to Moore/Savard makes me laugh. If we want a bench-warmer, we'll re-sign Lebda; he did an acceptable job.

zeus3007* 08-28-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilerTyler (Post 53898919)
Potter probably has negative value.

No one wants a career AHLer on a two year, one way deal. Players like Potter are a dime a dozen.

One way deals mean he gets NHL salary if sent to the minors. A lot of teams would care very little about that. I don't think CBJ is one of them though.

Double-Shift Lassť 08-28-2012 01:01 PM

Maybe Hemsky Potter could work a little magic.

MisterD 08-28-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilerTyler (Post 53898919)
Potter probably has negative value.

No one wants a career AHLer on a two year, one way deal. Players like Potter are a dime a dozen.

I don't think he has negative value, although not much value. He's a good depth Dman.

birddog* 08-28-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskimo44 (Post 53900271)
Other than 2 games due to sinus/flu Hemsky only missed games this year to continue his rehab from his shoulder injury from the year before. Hemsky never missed a game this season due to a new injury. Also prior to the two shoulder injuries he missed on average around 10 games a year to injury over a 7 year span, 10 games btw is the league average for games missed. I agree Hemsky does have some injury risk, but it's a risk that is greatly exaggerated.

Based on that -- everything is fine.

2011/12/29 Missed 2 games (illness).
2011/12/22 Illness, day-to-day.
2011/11/08 Missed 11 games (right shoulder injury).
2011/10/28 Right shoulder injury, injured reserve.
2011/10/15 Right shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2011/04/10 Missed the last 18 games of the regular season (shoulder injury).
2011/04/08 Shoulder injury, remainder of the season.
2011/03/03 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2011/02/02 Missed 4 games (concussion).
2011/01/20 Concussion, day-to-day.
2010/12/28 Missed 10 games (groin).
2010/12/10 Groin, injured reserve.
2010/12/02 Groin, sidelined indefinitely.
2010/12/01 Missed 3 games (leg injury).
2010/11/25 Leg injury, day-to-day.
2010/04/11 Missed the last 57 games of the regular season (left shoulder surgery).
2009/11/26 Left shoulder surgery, remainder of the season.
2009/11/11 Missed 2 games (shoulder injury).
2009/11/08 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2009/10/19 Missed 1 game (flu).
2009/10/16 Flu, day-to-day.
2009/01/18 Missed 10 games (concussion).
2008/12/30 Nose injury, day-to-day.
2008/04/05 Missed the last game of the regular season (knee injury).
2008/04/02 Knee injury, day-to-day.
2008/01/05 Missed 5 games (knee injury).
2007/12/29 Knee injury, day-to-day.
2007/12/27 Knee injury, day-to-day.
2007/12/05 Missed 2 games (knee injury).
2007/12/02 Knee injury, day-to-day.
2007/03/27 Missed 1 game (right shoulder injury).
2007/03/24 Right shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2007/03/23 Missed 8 games (right shoulder injury).
2007/03/04 Right shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2007/01/20 Missed 1 game (shoulder injury).
2007/01/18 Shoulder injury, day-to-day.
2007/01/17 Undisclosed, left Tuesday's game.
2006/12/15 Missed 8 games (right shoulder injury).
2006/11/30 Right shoulder injury, sidelined indefinitely.
2003/02/25 Missed 4 games (abdominal injury).
2003/02/22 Abdominal injury, day-to-day.
2003/02/18 Flu, day-to-day.
2003/02/05 Missed 2 games (abdominal injury).
2003/01/29 Abdominal injury, day-to-day.
2003/01/24 Missed 1 game (abdominal injury).
2003/01/22 Abdominal injury, day-to-day.
2003/01/16 Missed 0 game (pulled stomach muscle).
2003/01/14 Pulled stomach muscle, day-to-day.
2003/01/13 Pulled stomach muscle, left Monday's game.

candyman82 08-28-2012 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle (Post 53920673)
I don't think he has negative value, although not much value. He's a good depth Dman.

He has value as part of a deal to even out the number of contracts exchanged. Basically, that of a warm body. See Steven Deslisle

Faryn 08-28-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birddog (Post 53920827)
Based on that -- everything is fine.

2011/12
2011/12/29 Missed 2 games (illness).
2011/11/08 Missed 11 games (right shoulder injury).

2010/11
2011/04/10 Missed the last 18 games of the regular season (shoulder injury).
2011/02/02 Missed 4 games (concussion).
2010/12/28 Missed 10 games (groin).
2010/12/01 Missed 3 games (leg injury).

2009/10
2010/04/11 Missed the last 57 games of the regular season (left shoulder surgery).
2009/11/11 Missed 2 games (shoulder injury).
2009/10/19 Missed 1 game (flu).

2008/2009
2009/01/18 Missed 10 games (concussion).

2007/08
2008/04/05 Missed the last game of the regular season (knee injury).
2008/01/05 Missed 5 games (knee injury).
2007/12/05 Missed 2 games (knee injury).

2006/07
2007/03/27 Missed 1 game (right shoulder injury).
2007/03/23 Missed 8 games (right shoulder injury).
2007/01/20 Missed 1 game (shoulder injury).
2006/12/15 Missed 8 games (right shoulder injury).

2002/03
2003/02/25 Missed 4 games (abdominal injury).
2003/02/05 Missed 2 games (abdominal injury).
2003/01/24 Missed 1 game (abdominal injury).

there was two-three entries per injury explaining what was going on so i filtered them out this is the list of his injuries that made him miss games over the year according to wherever you got this data from.

My feeling, he does have some bad injury problems in the past but the past season was relatively healthy by his standards. Maybe he is turning a corner a la Gaborik, who had some bad injury problems early in his career.

I know what its like to have an injury and try and fight through it, it never really heals. That has been Hemsky's problem in the past, when he gets injured he is playing again within 5-10 games and then that same injury reappears throughout the season. It was just these past few years that the Oilers and him have been focusing on fixing the problems in the form of season ending surgery when they appear. This is probably why he was able to appear in the majority of this season, because he is finally healthy again.

SLAPSHOT723 08-28-2012 03:33 PM

I'd rather have Umberger than Hemsky.

Buckets and Gloves 08-28-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 (Post 53924701)
I'd rather have Umberger than Hemsky.

Yep, at least you know he will play games and not just be on the IR for majority of the year.

birddog* 08-28-2012 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faryn (Post 53924617)
there was two-three entries per injury explaining what was going on so i filtered them out this is the list of his injuries that made him miss games over the year according to wherever you got this data from.

My feeling, he does have some bad injury problems in the past but the past season was relatively healthy by his standards. Maybe he is turning a corner a la Gaborik, who had some bad injury problems early in his career.

I know what its like to have an injury and try and fight through it, it never really heals. That has been Hemsky's problem in the past, when he gets injured he is playing again within 5-10 games and then that same injury reappears throughout the season. It was just these past few years that the Oilers and him have been focusing on fixing the problems in the form of season ending surgery when they appear. This is probably why he was able to appear in the majority of this season, because he is finally healthy again.

118 games over the last 3 years and that's summed up as an "average of 10".

Remember what Gaborik went for at the time? 7 million per on a short term deal which was a lot less than a healthy Gaborik would have fetched.

Time to face it nobody is giving up anything of value with his history like that. "Maybe" he is turning a corner. You aren't giving up 1st round picks to find that out.

Especially when he hasn't shown the ability to be a difference maker even when healthy.

broc 08-28-2012 11:27 PM

Umberger has a fair bit more trade value than Hemsky IMO.

Umberger value >> Hemsky value
Potter value <<<<< those Columbus prospects

Faryn 08-29-2012 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birddog (Post 53926745)
118 games over the last 3 years and that's summed up as an "average of 10".

Remember what Gaborik went for at the time? 7 million per on a short term deal which was a lot less than a healthy Gaborik would have fetched.

Time to face it nobody is giving up anything of value with his history like that. "Maybe" he is turning a corner. You aren't giving up 1st round picks to find that out.

Especially when he hasn't shown the ability to be a difference maker even when healthy.

I am sorry but where did you get that out of my post. :dunno:

I said that before those three seasons he tended to come back and just re-injure that same injury again. It was in the last few seasons that he started losing major time because he was getting surgery to repair the damage to try and fix the damage instead of playing through it till the off-season (which didn't give him enough time to fully rehab).

Anyways I was just talking about Hemsky. As for the deal it definitely is slanted in the Oilers favour. It would be a lot closer in a straight up Umberger for Hemsky deal.

TSA0402 08-29-2012 08:21 AM

Even if you switched Potter for Paajarvi, I still doubt Columbus says yes.


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