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-   -   Which D prospect/player should go? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1253841)

alphafox 08-31-2012 10:53 AM

Which D prospect/player should go?
 
As we close in toward the start of the lock...i mean season, I wanted to see what everyone's thoughts are on which of our D prospects is the odd man out. The top four seem set, and Aucoin will be with the club to mentor the young D-men. Additionally, I think that we can all agree that Murray is likely going to make the team this year and only get better with experience. With none of the top four over the age of 30 none are likely moving on soon which leaves alot of talent that is going to be sitting in the AHL for a while.

Who do you think is the odd man out between the remaining high end D-prospects (Moore, Savard, Erixon) or would you rather see someone like Wiz of Tyutin traded for more significant help and to clear spots for the young talent?

Samkow 08-31-2012 11:06 AM

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1214117

Viqsi 08-31-2012 12:31 PM

There's no "None of the above" option. :snide:

If we had to complete a trade, I'd prob'ly lean towards Erixon simply because of past distrust, but that's not an ideal basis on which to make such a decision.

SuperGenius 08-31-2012 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphafox (Post 53998327)
As we close in toward the start of the lock...i mean season, I wanted to see what everyone's thoughts are on which of our D prospects is the odd man out. The top four seem set, and Aucoin will be with the club to mentor the young D-men. Additionally, I think that we can all agree that Murray is likely going to make the team this year and only get better with experience. With none of the top four over the age of 30 none are likely moving on soon which leaves alot of talent that is going to be sitting in the AHL for a while.

Who do you think is the odd man out between the remaining high end D-prospects (Moore, Savard, Erixon) or would you rather see someone like Wiz of Tyutin traded for more significant help and to clear spots for the young talent?

I don't agree with that at all. I might after camp, but its far from a slam dunk decision. If he struggles, he sits with no AHL. I would prefer he play as much as possible. With the depth we have, I would prefer patience over jettisoning someone unless performance compels me to do it.

There's plenty of room for these guys to all play and, most importantly, compete. I have no desire to thin the herd now that we actually have a herd. Depth is a good, good thing. If the perfect deal came along, I would always consider it, but I don't follow the notion that we must move one of these guys at all.

alphafox 08-31-2012 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGenius (Post 54000785)
I don't agree with that at all. I might after camp, but its far from a slam dunk decision. If he struggles, he sits with no AHL. I would prefer he play as much as possible. With the depth we have, I would prefer patience over jettisoning someone unless performance compels me to do it.

There's plenty of room for these guys to all play and, most importantly, compete. I have no desire to thin the herd now that we actually have a herd. Depth is a good, good thing. If the perfect deal came along, I would always consider it, but I don't follow the notion that we must move one of these guys at all.

I understand your points and agree, if murray doesn't out perform the others he should be sent down though the liklihood of that after his rookie camp performance IMO is very low, he looked at the same level as Atkinson and Johan.

Also I agree that depth is important, but when we have a wealth of depth and promising prospects in one area (Blue line) and players that will be on the depth chart for years (JMFJ, Wiz, Tyutin, and Nikitin each have 3+ year contracts) while we have a lack depth in others (forward corps) it makes a certain amount of sense to see if we can send use our strength to improve on other areas of the ice. (particularly with the value put on D-men and teams like the flyers desperate for help on the blue line)

Timeless Winter 08-31-2012 02:35 PM

Trade Savard

TaketheCannoli 08-31-2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphafox (Post 53998327)
As we close in toward the start of the lock...i mean season, I wanted to see what everyone's thoughts are on which of our D prospects is the odd man out. The top four seem set, and Aucoin will be with the club to mentor the young D-men. Additionally, I think that we can all agree that Murray is likely going to make the team this year and only get better with experience. With none of the top four over the age of 30 none are likely moving on soon which leaves alot of talent that is going to be sitting in the AHL for a while.

Who do you think is the odd man out between the remaining high end D-prospects (Moore, Savard, Erixon) or would you rather see someone like Wiz of Tyutin traded for more significant help and to clear spots for the young talent?

Why does any one of them have to go? History shows that defensemen are often injured and blue line depth is a good indication of success.

Murray may or may not make the team, but I guarantee you multiple defensemen will be injured. Last year's planned 6 defensemen never played a game together.

Roadman 08-31-2012 03:32 PM

Not sure what a "wealth" of D really is.

The problem is they are still just prospects, yet to develop into what they might ultimately become or even really close. Trade one and he becomes a stud for someone else and keep the wrong one who just can't quite get beyond that #6 #7 and this fan base would absolutely torch mgmt. Better to go through camp see who sticks, who goes down. Let everybody skate, log minutes, you know develop. Then see what we have.

This year, next year it doesn't really matter. The rosters has it's flaws, we all know that, another offensive prospect isn't going to make a difference. Trading a prospect for another prospect at this point just doesn't seem to be good asset management to me.

Best scenario, they all get really good and we just sit back and contemplate the offers. Now we're talking roster player for roster player, known quantity for known quantity.

Hey just my 2 cents. FWIW

EspenK 08-31-2012 04:20 PM

Voted Other as a proxy for none of the above. I think it is too early to tell who will emerge as the winners in the Moore/Murray/Savard/Erixon derby.

I say wait till next year assuming there is a this year and see what the needs are and who is expendable and who would bring the best return.

Assuming they all play well and develop maybe Tyutin or Wiz is the guy to go because they might bring a better return. Not saying they would be or will be just might be.

For once the Jackets have some depth at a position.

2minpenalty 08-31-2012 04:47 PM

When looking at these prospects, none turn my crank except for Murray. Moore is an excellent skater but that's it. He doesn't have great hockey sense and is not hard to play against. Savard's skating is an issue for me and with Wiz and JJ, we have PP quarterbacks. He too is not hard to play against. Ericxon has baggage. He is a great skater supposedly but is soft and his mental side is questionable. Murray i believe would benefit from another year in junior. What's wrong with dominating amongst his peers and with the labor strife, just play, dominate and come to camp next year ready to play. Not overly optimistic but just trying to be realistic.

KallioWeHardlyKnewYe 09-01-2012 12:30 AM

If you want a return that could address other needs? Probably Tyutin.

If you need to clear space or maybe need to swap young depth with another team? Probably Savard.

Feel no compulsion to see a deal just because.
If the return is right, I could be game.

Sore Loser 09-01-2012 01:01 AM

I'll choose "other" ...

I don't think we should be in a hurry to trade any of them unless the following circumstance(s) are met:

1. Player asks for a trade
2. Player is center piece in a deal for an established player

I don't really care if they're all "NHL ready" and have to battle for ice time. We've never had this kind of depth at any position before, and to be honest, this is the key to success. If Ryan Murray comes to camp and out-performs everyone for his spot, then he should be on the team. However, the same should go for John Moore, David Savard, Tim Erixon, Kevin Bacon, Cody Goloubef, Nick Holden, and anyone else who has a shot at cracking the lineup. If they don't make the team, then they should be sent down to develop properly, as we have repeatedly failed to do in the past.

With this happening, it makes sense to have these guys ready in case someone gets hurt, or if whoever does make the team has a sophomore slump, they aren't thrust into a role and forced to struggle through it.

Roadman 09-01-2012 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sore Loser (Post 54015309)
I'll choose "other" ...

I don't think we should be in a hurry to trade any of them unless the following circumstance(s) are met:

1. Player asks for a trade
2. Player is center piece in a deal for an established player

I don't really care if they're all "NHL ready" and have to battle for ice time. We've never had this kind of depth at any position before, and to be honest, this is the key to success. If Ryan Murray comes to camp and out-performs everyone for his spot, then he should be on the team. However, the same should go for John Moore, David Savard, Tim Erixon, Kevin Bacon, Cody Goloubef, Nick Holden, and anyone else who has a shot at cracking the lineup. If they don't make the team, then they should be sent down to develop properly, as we have repeatedly failed to do in the past.

With this happening, it makes sense to have these guys ready in case someone gets hurt, or if whoever does make the team has a sophomore slump, they aren't thrust into a role and forced to struggle through it.

I see what you did there....

Double-Shift Lassť 09-01-2012 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadman (Post 54016613)
I see what you did there....

I don't think that kid's gonna make it. He sizzles when you turn up the heat on him but eventually he just gets eaten up.

KapG 09-01-2012 08:30 AM

You can trade Savard to the Leafs ;).

Honestly, from what I have seen around these parts (I read your boards quite a bit) Savard seems to get the least love out of all your D prospects. Not sure why either. From the sounds of it his skating is a bit of an issue but it's not so bad as to make him a detriment to your team. Add in his offensive ability and I am not sure why more of you don't want him getting a legitimate chance at succeeding at the NHL level.

The guy just oozes offensive potential. Not every D is gonna be a stand out defensive defenseman or have outstanding skating. As long as both are passable than I don't see the issue.

candyman82 09-01-2012 09:39 AM

At this point, I would rather just let them develop here.

Viqsi 09-01-2012 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe (Post 54014953)
If you want a return that could address other needs? Probably Tyutin.

After seeing the quality hockey he played alongside Nikitin, I insist on a complete and absolute moratorium on any and all suggestions of trading Tyutin until at least the end of this coming season (so we can see if he repeats). It's possible that he may have finally hit that top-end potential that was suspected when we acquired him, and I want to see if it sticks.

Those two were truly something special. Let's see if they can keep that going before we start suggesting trades.

FlaggerX 09-01-2012 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viqsi (Post 54000607)
There's no "None of the above" option. :snide:

If we had to complete a trade, I'd prob'ly lean towards Erixon simply because of past distrust, but that's not an ideal basis on which to make such a decision.

Agreed. If someone offers the world that's one thing, but we really don't need to trade anyone. Let the kids develop and see who rises to the top.

2minpenalty 09-01-2012 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sore Loser (Post 54015309)
I'll choose "other" ...

I don't think we should be in a hurry to trade any of them unless the following circumstance(s) are met:

1. Player asks for a trade
2. Player is center piece in a deal for an established player

I don't really care if they're all "NHL ready" and have to battle for ice time. We've never had this kind of depth at any position before, and to be honest, this is the key to success. If Ryan Murray comes to camp and out-performs everyone for his spot, then he should be on the team. However, the same should go for John Moore, David Savard, Tim Erixon, Kevin Bacon, Cody Goloubef, Nick Holden, and anyone else who has a shot at cracking the lineup. If they don't make the team, then they should be sent down to develop properly, as we have repeatedly failed to do in the past.

With this happening, it makes sense to have these guys ready in case someone gets hurt, or if whoever does make the team has a sophomore slump, they aren't thrust into a role and forced to struggle through it.

I agree with you. Gone are the days when a first rounder gets a free pass. We have depth at this position now and everyone above should be given an equal chance to make the team. Competition never hurt anyone and it should keep everyone on their toes and working hard. Not a bad problem to have!

LetsGOJackets!! 09-02-2012 12:01 AM

Why the heck does everyone assume we will be
 
trading D assets? These guys are all future players here, and some of them will play this year. The last thing in the world I want is another Frank Beauchemin situation where I watch a defensemen playing his arse off and wonder why it was that we got rid of him.

It's not like they need to save money on salaries we are barely over the cap floor as it is. Enough of the CBJ has to trade someone bs.

Nordique 09-06-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! (Post 54032231)
trading D assets? These guys are all future players here, and some of them will play this year. The last thing in the world I want is another Frank Beauchemin situation where I watch a defensemen playing his arse off and wonder why it was that we got rid of him.

It's not like they need to save money on salaries we are barely over the cap floor as it is. Enough of the CBJ has to trade someone bs.

I agree, keep them all for now, see what shakes out.


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