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BruinsBtn 09-04-2012 01:00 PM

The coming return of wooden hockey sticks
 
Quote:

The Forest Products Laboratory of the US Forest Service has opened a US$1.7 million pilot plant for the production of cellulose nanocrystals (CNC) from wood by-products materials such as wood chips and sawdust. Prepared properly, CNCs are stronger and stiffer than Kevlar or carbon fibers, so that putting CNC into composite materials results in high strength, low weight products. In addition, the cost of CNCs is less than ten percent of the cost of Kevlar fiber or carbon fiber. These qualities have attracted the interest of the military for use in lightweight armor and ballistic glass (CNCs are transparent), as well as companies in the automotive, aerospace, electronics, consumer products, and medical industries."
Link:

A lighter, cheaper, stronger material that you can see through. Sounds awesome. Interesting to see who will be the first stick-maker to try it.

SCBruCrew4 09-04-2012 01:40 PM

I'm suspecting much farther down the line otherwise it won't be cost effective IMO

AIREAYE 09-04-2012 02:40 PM

Great find and very very interesting. Thanks for the post!

While it is strong and light, I wonder if it will be...'springy' or responsive enough.

CornKicker 09-04-2012 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AIREAYE (Post 54082665)
Great find and very very interesting. Thanks for the post!

While it is strong and light, I wonder if it will be...'springy' or responsive enough.

that was my first thought as well, will is flex back to its original position or are we gonna get bowage after 30 shots?

bigduga 09-04-2012 07:49 PM

Quote:


But cellulose contains hydroxyl (OH) groups which protrude laterally along the cellulose molecule. These can form hydrogen bonds with water molecules, resulting in cellulose being hydrophilic (a drop of water will tend to spread across the cellulose surface). Given enough water, cellulose will become engorged with water, swelling to nearly double its dry volume.

Well, that ain't gonna work.

SauceHockey 09-04-2012 08:06 PM

Seems a little risky that a mainstream brand would release. Probably a uncommon brand would come out if it works

AIREAYE 09-04-2012 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigduga (Post 54090951)
Well, that ain't gonna work.

Why not? It worked with wood sticks...

nightfighter 09-04-2012 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigduga (Post 54090951)
Well, that ain't gonna work.

A little paint or something else to cover it up and it's not such a big deal.

bigduga 09-04-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AIREAYE (Post 54092947)
Why not? It worked with wood sticks...

You had a wood stick that swelled to double it's dry volume when it got wet?

"Hydrophillic" means at best it actively sucks water like a sponge and at worst, dissolves.

CNC bonds don't dissolve, which is good, but hydrophillic bonds that dont break are the ones that swell-up...and when they swell up:

Quote:

Swelling introduces a large number of nano-defects in the cellulose structure. Although there is little swelling of a single CNC, water can penetrate into amorphous cellulose with ease, pushing apart the individual cellulose molecules in those regions. In addition, the bonds and interfaces between neighboring CNC will be disrupted, thereby significantly reducing the strength of any material reinforced with CNCs. To make matters worse, water can move easily over the surface/interfaces of the CNCs, thereby allowing water to penetrate far into a composite containing CNCs.
...it gets rapidly brittle, which is a bummer.

The solution is to bind it to a hydrophobic compound, which weakens it substantially, because hydrophiles and hydrophobes don't bond well, or coat it in some sort of sheath or paint, which only works as long as the sealant doesn't crack...which if it's paint is what? three shifts of ice time?

Tougher thicker coatings will only hinder the elasticity of the CNC or otherwise cripple the properties of the CNC matrix that make it an attractive substitute for carbon fiber weaves.

I'm having a hard time seeing how you manage to make this a big enough gain over carbon fiber to accept the durability trade-off of using a stick that can't get wet.

SCBruCrew4 09-05-2012 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfighter (Post 54096825)
A little paint or something else to cover it up and it's not such a big deal.

And when you get a scratch that goes thru that clearcoat or paint layer what happens then?

alpine4life 09-05-2012 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfighter (Post 54096825)
A little paint or something else to cover it up and it's not such a big deal.

put some colorant in the mix... :/

RockemSockemProberts 09-05-2012 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCBruCrew4 (Post 54101821)
And when you get a scratch that goes thru that clearcoat or paint layer what happens then?

In all seriousness, I would think a herniation of sorts could be the result...

SCBruCrew4 09-05-2012 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97980208 (Post 54102121)
In all seriousness, I would think a herniation of sorts could be the result...

So wouldn't that compromise the integrity of the entire stick?

Jarick 09-05-2012 09:48 AM

Sounds interesting but I don't know if it applies to hockey.

ONO94 09-05-2012 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCBruCrew4 (Post 54101821)
And when you get a scratch that goes thru that clearcoat or paint layer what happens then?

Not saying the material will work for making hockey sticks--but did you read the part about the military looking at the material for armor use? I just can't imagine the military would use a product that swells as armor for vehicles or people. My guess is that the binding agent would go far in making the material absorbant or non-absorbant and hockey companies wouldn't use an absorbant version.

SCBruCrew4 09-05-2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONO94 (Post 54104175)
Not saying the material will work for making hockey sticks--but did you read the part about the military looking at the material for armor use? I just can't imagine the military would use a product that swells as armor for vehicles or people. My guess is that the binding agent would go far in making the material absorbant or non-absorbant and hockey companies wouldn't use an absorbant version.

Valid point. I'm was more talking about what an above poster stated about the scientific make-up of this material, and he was saying it is super absorbent. In which someone replied with putting a layer of paint on it. Then, I made my comment of what happens when that layer gets scratched.

But your point is still valid and who ultimately knows what will become of this?

bigduga 09-06-2012 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ONO94 (Post 54104175)
Not saying the material will work for making hockey sticks--but did you read the part about the military looking at the material for armor use? I just can't imagine the military would use a product that swells as armor for vehicles or people. My guess is that the binding agent would go far in making the material absorbant or non-absorbant and hockey companies wouldn't use an absorbant version.

Armor and hockey sticks do two very different jobs. There are very practical ways to wrap or sandwich the internal strata of compound armor that dont necessarily work for the construction of a hockey stick.

If you wrap the stuff in a tough, waterproof polymer just to keep it dry you begin to lose pieces of the tougher, lighter, more elastic, cheaper balance that makes it competitive with carbon composites in the first place unless whatever waterproof stuff you shell the CNC matrix with is every bit as strong, light, elastic and cheap as CNC. And if you find such a material, you'd just kick the picky hydrophillic cellulose aside and make the bloody stick out of the waterproof material.

RockemSockemProberts 09-06-2012 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCBruCrew4 (Post 54102499)
So wouldn't that compromise the integrity of the entire stick?

Um... yeah, I think that's pretty apparent.

ONO94 09-06-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigduga (Post 54122847)
Armor and hockey sticks do two very different jobs. There are very practical ways to wrap or sandwich the internal strata of compound armor that dont necessarily work for the construction of a hockey stick.

If you wrap the stuff in a tough, waterproof polymer just to keep it dry you begin to lose pieces of the tougher, lighter, more elastic, cheaper balance that makes it competitive with carbon composites in the first place unless whatever waterproof stuff you shell the CNC matrix with is every bit as strong, light, elastic and cheap as CNC. And if you find such a material, you'd just kick the picky hydrophillic cellulose aside and make the bloody stick out of the waterproof material.

Isn't this the whole point of the thread? Whether a wood product will find it's way back into the high-end hockey stick market? If they can't negate the hydrophillic properties of the product without making it stiff as a board, then obviously it won't be used in a hockey stick. And if it works, it won't be a wrap or a paint of a cover of anything that will keep it dry--it will pretty be done on a molecular level.

Although, based on the properties described, it won't look like a Hespeler anymore then a Dolomite or AK-47 currently does. It would be kind of cool to have a clear stick to use--or at least parts of it clear.

Fanned On It 09-07-2012 02:24 AM

I could see them maybe using this stuff for super-expensive shin guards LOL.


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