Jakub Kindl
 

What's the story with this guy right now? Are Redwings fans still hopeful that he's going to become a pretty good defenseman? And what is his offense potential like at this point? Any and all feedback on the young Red Wings defenseman would be much appreciated!!

Let me guess, you want to know for your NHL fantasy draft?

He's a no-longer young defenseman prone to young mistakes - in part because he's inexperienced
He has the tools to be a decent 2nd pairing defenseman, IMO Does he have the confidence? Will he get the opportunity in Detroit?
Will he ever develop some toughness in his game?

Kindl started last season by delivering some solid hits along the boards. It was a good way to get in Babcock's good graces. But by the 10 game mark, he was soft as butter
If he could just play with a little toughness each game, he'd stay in the lineup and get a chance to develop his offensive tools

I still think Kindl needs more time; look at his progression in every league he's been in he improved every year. Big defensemen take longer to develop.

I remain high on Kindl, I think we have dropped the ball on this one. I think he could use a change of scenery, but with our current situation that is unlikely. It is also pretty clear he does things that irritate Babcock.

He has a good low hard shot that get through, good first pass, skates very well, has improved his physical play although still a little weak it is getting there. He could have a Quincey like break through if he was ever used on the PP in terms of points. As Captain Bob has pointed out several times he is already better than him at even strength. In a lot of places that would get him more ice time or at least more leeway and expanded chances, just hasn't here. Unfortunate, to think him being involved two years ago was what killed a Bogosian move. Not the couple of firsts, but Kindl was what they Wings reportedly did not like. Then they don't even play him really or give him chances.

A #7 defenseman that is mediocre at mostly everything, but is a decent skater. He plays like he has no confidence at all. He takes weak shots from the point (gets them through though, I'll give him that), doesn't play physical, and isn't a guy you should generally put on your power play or penalty kill. Although with the current state of Detroit's defense, he will likely get those special teams minutes. As I've said before, he has still had over 100 games to show he belongs on the big club full time. He has not done so, and is the reason he was healthy scratched so often.

Guy doesn't have any confidence but the Wings don't have any confidence in him. Last season when him and Ericsson were paired together I thought they played really well, he just doesn't ever get the chance to prove that. He need's work, and he needs play a little more physical but right now the only thing that would help him progress is either a chance to play this season or to move him somewhere else.

Kindl has taken the opposite path of Smith really. When Kindl showed up from the OHL I remember talk of him albeit while playing with Lidstrom not looking out of place and being close to nailing down a roster spot, but he had options.

What happened next was unfortunate. He seemed disinterested having heard this opinion and didn't really take the steps to improve a whole lot at the AHL level. He knew he would eventually get to the NHL in my opinion on his talent alone when his options ran out.

Whereas Smith has gone down and taken every opportunity to punish the Wings and make them and especially fans long for his arrival and put the GM and Coach into a war of words. While Kindl impressed initially, he lost Babcock at some point, mostly because of his inconsistent physical play. Babcock still talks pretty nicely about his passing, shot, size, and skating. There is the one area he harps on, physical play. I thought Kindl looked good out of the gate and really improved last year, but at times his physical game completely left him.

The big issue I have with Babcock and the Wings brass is that failure at times is not allowed. There are no growing pains in Detroit, at least very few are tolerated except for a few players. Granted what they seem to put up with are effort players mistakes. When Kindl looks bad it is because it looks like he isn't busting his *** to make plays. Helm and Abdelkader are allowed to make mistakes because many of them are effort mistakes. Babcock doesn't see Kindl's errors this way. He has played a much cleaner game the last season in a half, but it seems to have gone largely unnoticed. In fact mostly because once a month he lays an absolute stinker and Babcock benches him for it. I am concerned what this will mean for Smith, but with Kindl around and both as a top 7 option one will just continue to get to play which is nice.

By the way this line of thinking is going to be a major hurdle for Jurco. Nyquist and Tatar backcheck and play the game hard so when their skills don't show up all the time they still bring other things. Tatar has taken this element into his game with a level Kindl should have at the AHL level because it was not always there, so full marks to him. But this is still a major concern, that Babcock views certain players through this lens. Hudler had a short leash for this reason and I could see Jurco saddled with it as well.

Kindl confidence is a reflection of his coaches confidence in my opinion. He is looking over his shoulder all the time. Ericsson developed a similar habit after his good start in the post-season as a Wing years ago. When he was finally certain one mistake wouldn't put him on the bench for the rest of the game or worse in the press box for the next one he really started to build confidence. One of the worst developments for Kindl actually within the last year was not making the Czech World Championship team. Now he declined because of role and said he wanted to use the summer to train. I hope he did, but I think that might have shot his confidence even more. A good start is pretty critical for him, it also doesn't help he has spent a lot of time going back and forth from RD to LD. I think he is LD and needs to stay there, problem is that is a lot of the Wings D-man problems. Could be interesting if they decide to go with the youngster pair or drop White to the third pairing. Because both Smith and White prefer the right side, I think that will help Kindl stay in one spot and really help his comfort level and confidence.

I am not a fan of Kindl. That being said - he needs to be given time this year and has to do his best to grab a prominent role by the balls and become a fulltime NHL player and show that he can consistently produce and compete.

Its sink or swim for him - I hope he makes good and becomes the player we thought he'd be a few years ago. Ill really be chapped if he plays like crap, rides sits in the press-box all year, then goes somewhere else for peanuts and turns out 25-35 point seasons for a decade.

Its a catch 22 here because I also want another dman added via trade or free agency thats a bonifide NHL dman which would likely relegate him to 7th spot.

I think the Wings hurt Kindl -- like they did with Ericsson, with their overripe BS (BS cover for keeping veterans forever).

In 08-09, Kindl had 6 goals and 33 points and was second to Stafford on the GR defense in points.
He needed to come up in 9-10.

Instead, he spent the next year doing not much in GR>
And why? So we could dress Meech and Lilja and Lebda? Three guys who had NO FUTURE with this organization?

That's poor asset management..

We saw the same with Quincey in 07. IMO, he showed he could play in this league, but we kept Chelios and Lebda over him. Why?

Ericsson too.
Ericsson looked really good in Grand Rapids and was an all star in 07-08. We send him to GR for most of 08-09.

And now, we're about to do the same thing with Nyquist, Tatar and perhaps even Joakim Andersson. We've probably already done it with Mursak.

Why? So we can resign Bertuzzi and bring Sammy back and sign Tootoo and take a chance on some Swiss guy?

Agreed.

If the Wings don't make a major move, Kindl will get the opportunity not because he's earned it but because of the sad state of the Wings blueline.

He's 25 years old, 100+ NHL games under his belt. I'd love for him to turn into something, even if it's just an asset the Wings could deal, but after this much time I'm not holding out hope.

Kindl just isn't assertive. He is the complete opposite of Smith in this regard.

Mismanaged asset. He was treated like a veteran journeyman from the beginning - meaning he saw limited ice time in a #5-7 role - when he should've been treated like a 1st round draft pick with a ton of potential. The Wings should've given him bigger minutes and let him sink or swim for an entire season, rather than hoping he'd find his own way while getting hit-or-miss bottom pairing time with the big club or getting observational training from the press box.

With the Wings, I don't see him amounting to anything special. With another team that will give him consistent top 4 minutes and special teams time, that will let him make mistakes and not discipline him with press box duty but stick him right back out on the ice, he could turn into something above average.

I've seen the 'overripe' approach as hurting players in Detroit as well. You're about to watch it happen again with Tatar, as his point totals have stalled at the AHL level. Rather than keeping Bertuzzi and signing Samuelsson, Detroit should have kept the spots open and had Tatar, Mursak, Nyquist, Andersson and Sheahan fight for those roster spots.

It's becoming almost sad to watch as these very good, well developed prospects are starting to fail at becoming full-time NHLers because of managements nostalgia for the glory days of years past. Hope that Detroit doesn't kill Mrazek's development too as he's one of the most talented goalies to come through in a long time.

I was actually thinking about this earlier today. There are three guys who only made the team when they were out of options and became good hockey players:

1. Jiri Hudler
2. Jonathan Ericsson
3. Jimmy Howard

So the over ripe approach can work. However the vast majority of guys who run out of options and are kept around to avoid losing them to the waiver wire end up doing nothing. I think you can safely say Jakub Kindl belongs in this category and will not become a Jiri Hudler, Jonathan Ericsson or Jimmy Howard level player. The Wings should trade him while he still has some small amount of trade value, but I suspect Ken Holland is petrified of losing him via trade and having him become a journeyman #6 defenseman on another team. It's the only explanation for why he's been kept as the #7 for the past couple years.

Could be become a Kyle Quincey like player who develops somewhere else? He doesn't have Quincey's physical style of play and he's shown little offensive skill at the NHL level to date. I think he could be a Quincey type player on a team where he is given more ice time and I wish the Red Wings would give him that opportunity. I honestly don't expect anything from him in Detroit.

With Tatar I think he's going to end up being similar to Mursak. Good NHL point producer but a guy who is fighting for playing time on a 3rd or 4th line in the NHL - once his waiver free time expires.

Meant to type AHL there, not NHL.

This needed to be a major correction year for Detroit.

After a few years of poor management by Holland, in terms of acquiring top talent and in terms of bringing young talent into the lineup, Holland was left with a very difficult challenge -- one made tougher by the defection of Stuart and retirement of Lidstrom.

He needed to acquire a top pairing defenseman, a top 6 winger and a PK defenseman.

At the same time, this team needed to introduce Smith, Nyquist and Tatar to the lineup this year.

Instead, we did not acquire any defensemen. We did not acquire any top 6 wingers.

And we acquired two bottom six wingers and a Swiss project that -- and those moves may cost us the chance to graduate Nyquist and Tatar.

The DRW Prospect Bottleneck is a problem and its only getting worse.

Here are the forward prospects that may be ready in the next 2-3 years

Mursak - Now
Emmerton - Now
Tatar - Now
Nyquist - Now
Andersson - Now, or 2013
Jarnkrok - As soon 2013
Sheahan - As soon as 2013, but probably 2014
Jurco - As soon as 2013, but probably 2014
Pulkkinen - 2014 or 2015
Tvrdon - 2015/16
Aubry - 2014/15
Ferraro - 2014/15


Obviously, they ware not all going to make it, even with the best of development opportunities.
But given the way Detroit is committed to signing veterans and keeping prospects in the AHL, you can bet that these prospects are going to have something much less than a great development opportunity

Hard to argue there, CB. I keep holding out hope that we see some guys moved (Miller and Eaves, specifically) to make room,but I doubt it happens. If we move Miller and Eaves now, let Cleary walk after this year, and then let Sammy and Bertuzzi walk the year after, that would provide the space needed to move kids into the lineup or sign a top free agent. It all starts with making a couple of moves now, though.

If anyone is moved, I think it'll be a couple of kids for a D. Not the worst thing in the world, depending on the D. I fear we're going to see Roszival signed and Nyquist moved to GR with Tatar, with Brunner staying up while Eaves stays on LTIR.

The "overripe" approach isn't working because these players are no longer "overripe" - they're rotten.

You're missing a piece here. Quincey and Meech came up in Detroit's system together. Meech was generally higher on the depth chart and the better-playing defenseman. It's the Chelios-sheltered Lebderp that was the problem. I even said it back then, that Lebda should be the one waived.

He's as good as if not better than Kyle Quincey, who was just acquired for a first-round draft pick. Who is supposedly a "legit top four defenseman" if you listen to some people around here. He has great chemistry with Ericsson and that pairing looked wonderful for the time frame it actually existed; with Kindl looking better than Ericsson did.

A couple notes: Hudler played significant time in Detroit as young as 19. If you're including him in the "overripe club" you can't leave out his former linemates Filppula and Kopecky. As for saying he can't be an Ericsson-level player... as I stated earlier he was paired with Ericsson last year for part of the year and was the better defenseman. Granted, Ericsson finished very strongly, but during their time together Kindl was better.

Interesting breakdown of how the Wings manage their team. I think blaming Holland is like blaming the President, he is only the face of the system. Until this summer I hadn't realized DRW's particular flavor of organization for what it is, and I see there are other options.

You made me think of what we learned last summer about Kindl's training: it is top notch. I remember the features about him saying he needed to get stronger and especially his upper body. He looked physically strong at the beginning of last season. Great point about having to switch from LD to RD, I never thought of that.

:handclap: That's what I think! At least with my limited, skewed memory of last season. Honestly I rate big E and JK at the same level, with a hopeful question mark as to what they are capable of. Kindl plays a very sensible, quiet game, which is a lot like his personality. Like everyone says it's got to be a confidence thing holding him back some. Now we need him to step up big time.

My advice to to Jakub would be to lighten up and HAVE FUN! He is so serious and nervous, you've got to enjoy your self, laugh a little. Swagger, baby!

The overripening is getting a bit ridiculous, particularly the Nyquist situation. Filppula gets drafted, puts up solid numbers, then comes to Grand Rapids, puts up about a point a game (a little less than), and he gets a spot on a team that won the President's Trophy the year before, and a pretty stacked group of forwards. He plays 73 games his rookie season in the NHL. Nyquist puts up better than a point a game in college, plays 1 year in the AHL where he puts up 58 pts in 56 gms playing with worst teammates than Filppula did in GR, and management decides to go with a group of forwards that are nothing special by Detroit's standards, over Nyquist (most likely what will happen). Why does Filppula get a spot on a stacked team while Nyquist can't crack a weak Detroit roster? Why are we hoarding aging, mediocre forwards that we can't let walk and replace with youth? When good players were keeping players in the minors, that was one thing, but when 37 year old Bertuzzi, 35 year old Samuelsson, Damien Brunner, beat-up Dan Cleary, and Drew Miller are keeping Nyquist and Tatar out of the line-up, I just think that is pretty much pointless.

Seriously imagine working for the Red Wings if they were a company in real life. Oh, you didn't hit your numbers for the year? That's okay you've been with the company forever, we'll keep you around until you feel like you want to retire, even if you are a complete shadow of your former self. Oh and that young guy who has been producing at a great rate at the position lower than you, don't worry, we won't give him your job until you tell us you want to leave. We might lose him to another company where he can step in and do the job for cheap, but eventually we will over-pay to get him back when we are desperate for a replacement, and his value has overblown. Seriously, what a joke.

Kindl looks like he will finally get a shot this year. I can't see anyone we sign up at this point to come in and be the #6 D right away.

As for the overripe thing, that's getting kind of old. If the kids ready then he's ready. The is no reason that Bertuzzi and Samuelsson shoulda been re-signed. Nyquist and Tatar (and Brunner) should all be with the big club this year instead only one will.

Bertuzzi did nothing last year to show me he shoulda been brought back on a 1 year deal let a lone a 2 year deal with a NTC.

Granted Samuelsson signed before we knew we weren't getting Parise and/or Suter, but still, Kenny didn't have to run out and sign him July 1. I'm sure he coulda waited a few days for their decision first and if Samuelsson went elsewhere in the meantime then who really cares anyway?

(I say that meaning it makes more sense to go with the kids after missing out on them, whereas as getting one or both woulda made us one of the cup favorites and I could at least see the argument for wanting to go the veteran route in that case.)

Disagree. He is not the same level as Quincey even though Quincey didnt play great down the stretch here, there is still a reason that Quincey can log those minutes and Kindl rots on the bench. Kindl is not the same level player as Quincey or Ericcson and he did NOTHING last year to show that he was.

You know why you think he looked better than Quincey? Because Quincey played almost 8 more minutes per game on average and had more time to make a few mistakes that stood out. Playing Kindl anymore than 15 minutes a game and he looks like a disaster defensively.

I dont think hes a completely worthless player and could be a number 6 guy for this season but the BS about him playing better than Quincey or Ericcson is just that, BS

The reason is that Quincey has some experience, and because he has played on teams with very poor defense.

Kindl's defensive game isn't bad. It isn't good, either. IMO, Kind is a lot less likely to take minior penalties. His positioning and defensive instincts are better than Q's.
The issues with Kindl:
1) Inexperienced
2) Prone to careless errors
3) Doesn't play tough.