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-   -   Troy Brouwer gets what???? (3 years, $11M) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1258877)

BTCG 09-12-2012 11:27 AM

Troy Brouwer gets what???? (3 years, $11M)
 
Thought it had to be a misprint, but it wasn't. How do you give Troy Brouwer $3.6 million ($11 million over 3 years)?

Way too much money.

And while we're at it... how do you let Drew Miller get claimed by the Red Wings: essentially the same player (and I realize he was claimed a few years ago after everyone passed on him)... save Miller is faster, better defenceively, and makes about 1/3 of what they signed Brouwer for.

We know the Millers... he would have loved to play here.

Here's another Mironov type signing: way, way, too much.

Devil Dancer 09-12-2012 11:30 AM

It speaks highly of GMGM when your reference for a bad signing was 14 years ago. You could have at least referenced Poti or Nylander. Oh, that's right, you're not a Caps fan.

BTCG 09-12-2012 11:34 AM

LOL,

I was a Caps fan on the original Cap's message board (Talk Central) when it happened, and I was the only one who called the Mironov signing correctly: a bust.

They all admitted I was right.

But let's get back to my current point: we could have had Miller for a late pick, and we should have.

Langway 09-12-2012 11:40 AM

Brouwer is order of magnitudes more physical than Miller and has played with skilled linemates. Crabb would be a better equivalent for Miller. Can Brouwer thrive under Oates is the question and I'd rather have waited to see how that fit worked out, particularly if they really do plan on Forsberg being ready in a year. If Brouwer isn't a reliable top six guy then they could potentially have a lot of cash between him, Laich & Ward that could go to higher skilled forwards or better D.

Getting Alzner & Carlson locked up long-term should be the top priority but it is what it is. GMGM tends to get the small stuff done first...and sometimes that's all that gets done. That's a problematic way to operate when there's at least a decent chance of cap crunches necessitating GMs being more selective.

VanIslander 09-12-2012 11:41 AM

Brouwer is a net gain over Semin.

Add the assets you need to win a championship. Until this franchise hits a cap ceiling, no quality signing is too much.

Love the locked in term.

BTCG 09-12-2012 11:43 AM

Oh... and DD,

WE carry 3 season ticket seats. I don't know if you're a STH. If not, and you'd like to go to a game, PM me. I'll give you our 3rd seat, and buy the 1st round.

THEN... you can cut the false bravado, and exchange ideas with Capskid and myself, and a number of other knowledgeable folk on our section. We're in 413, row C... and you can see the entire ice. We used to be in 114, and these are better.

BTCG 09-12-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langway (Post 54266211)
Brouwer is order of magnitudes more physical than Miller and has played with skilled linemates. Crabb would be a better equivalent for Miller. Can Brouwer thrive under Oates is the question and I'd rather have waited to see how that fit worked out, particularly if they really do plan on Forsberg being ready in a year. If Brouwer isn't a reliable top six guy then they could potentially have a lot of cash between him, Laich & Ward that could go to higher skilled forwards or better D.

Getting Alzner & Carlson locked up long-term should be the top priority but it is what it is. GMGM tends to get the small stuff done first...and sometimes that's all that gets done. That's a problematic way to operate when there's at least a decent chance of cap crunches necessitating GMs being more selective.

More physical than Miller? I watch every game both teams play, and that's not true. They are very similar, and we know the Millers.

BTCG 09-12-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanIslander (Post 54266237)
Brouwer is a net gain over Semin.

Add the assets you need to win a championship. Until this franchise hits a cap ceiling, no quality signing is too much.

Love the locked in term.

Well... Semin's 2 way game has improved, IMHO. But he is very streaky. But Brouwer will never outscore him.

brs03 09-12-2012 11:49 AM

It's difficult to really figure out the value here without knowing where the cap will be. Under a $70 mil cap this is very good value. If there are any form of rollbacks (unlikely but who knows) then that value would be preserved. If Brouwer works himself into a better/more important player (IMO could easily happen with more focus on forechecking) that value would be preserved.

BTCG 09-12-2012 11:56 AM

Br,

I can see 2 to 2.7 million... but this is way too much money. Oh well, not like we're gonna play this year anyways.

WetHog 09-12-2012 01:09 PM

I wished they'd sign Carlson to a new deal before giving Brower an extension.

californiacapsfan 09-12-2012 01:19 PM

WTF is going on with Carlson? Making me very nervous.

bonzilla 09-12-2012 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTCG (Post 54266591)
Br,

I can see 2 to 2.7 million... but this is way too much money. Oh well, not like we're gonna play this year anyways.

$3.6M after a 24% rollback = $2.74M..Preview of comming attractions?

Liberati0n* 09-12-2012 03:50 PM

There are two ways to look at the value of any contract. One is whether the player is actually worth the money. (Brooks Laich isn't worth $4.5M, for example.) The other is in the context of the market and the player's leverage. (Brooks Laich would definitely have gotten $4.5M from another team as a UFA, for example.)

From the first standpoint, this is overpayment, but I guess not by that much. From the second, it seems like ridiculous overpayment to me. Brouwer's play may be worth over $3M/year, but I honestly can't figure out how he had enough leverage in the negotiation to get as much as he did. It certainly seems like the Capitals could have gotten a much better deal done. But I'm probably wrong.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz 09-12-2012 03:56 PM

Colby Armstrong got $3M/year on the open market in 2010.

So yeah, Brouwer would have easily gotten $3.65M on the open market today.

Liberati0n* 09-12-2012 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz (Post 54272689)
Colby Armstrong got $3M/year on the open market in 2010.

So yeah, Brouwer would have easily gotten $3.65M on the open market today.

He's not on the open market though. Laich's contract was signed just before he would have been a UFA. Like days before. I'm not up in arms about it or anything, but I genuinely wonder how the negotiations went.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz 09-12-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonsofcain (Post 54273171)
He's not on the open market though. Laich's contract was signed just before he would have been a UFA. Like days before. I'm not up in arms about it or anything, but I genuinely wonder how the negotiations went.

He would have been a UFA after this season. There's not much of a difference in leverage.

Hivemind 09-12-2012 05:15 PM

Not a great deal and the timing seems odd. But a lot of franchises seem to be locking up players they view as important a year before their contract expires. Perhaps they know something about what the new CBA may end up doing that we don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by californiacapsfan (Post 54268499)
WTF is going on with Carlson? Making me very nervous.

It seems that Carlson, Subban, and Kulikov are in a staring contest to see who signs first, with each hoping to use the others' deals as leverage to ask for more money in their own.

Halpysback 09-12-2012 05:23 PM

Brouwer was for all intensive intents and purposes a UFA. Big, great in front of the net, good for around 20g, one of the top players in the league in hits and can drive the physical play of a line more or less on his own. May not be as "well rounder" as Laich but is actually an impact player in some areas of the game (hitting and screening), which is more important. If Jones is worth 4 a year Brouwer is worth this.

SimplySensational 09-12-2012 05:23 PM

Interesting signing, because of course it won't end until 4 years from now.

So if you look at 2 years from now, we should have Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Forsberg and Johansson. So where does Brouwer fit in the top 6, a guy who inconsistently plows to the front of the net?

Though I have a feeling I will get a response about how soft everyone of them is besides Ovechkin therefore we need Brouwer in our top 6.

The way I can see it working is MoJo or Forsberg being a center, which then is just going down the stupid path they did in the past.

Zoidberg Jesus 09-12-2012 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonsofcain (Post 54272517)
There are two ways to look at the value of any contract. One is whether the player is actually worth the money. (Brooks Laich isn't worth $4.5M, for example.) The other is in the context of the market and the player's leverage. (Brooks Laich would definitely have gotten $4.5M from another team as a UFA, for example.)

From the first standpoint, this is overpayment, but I guess not by that much. From the second, it seems like ridiculous overpayment to me. Brouwer's play may be worth over $3M/year, but I honestly can't figure out how he had enough leverage in the negotiation to get as much as he did. It certainly seems like the Capitals could have gotten a much better deal done. But I'm probably wrong.

Maybe because just last summer the Caps gave 3M/year to a guy who is worse than Brouwer in just about every way. Pretty easy to point to Ward's contract and say anything less than that is an insult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberation (Post 54274847)
Interesting signing, because of course it won't end until 4 years from now.

So if you look at 2 years from now, we should have Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Forsberg and Johansson. So where does Brouwer fit in the top 6, a guy who inconsistently plows to the front of the net?

Though I have a feeling I will get a response about how soft everyone of them is besides Ovechkin therefore we need Brouwer in our top 6.

The way I can see it working is MoJo or Forsberg being a center, which then is just going down the stupid path they did in the past.

Kuznetsov-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Galiev-Johansson-Forsberg
Wilson-Laich-Brouwer

I think that top 6 has enough grit to work a forecheck, particularly with that bruising 3rd line to do the heavy lifting. If for some reason that doesn't work, you could shuffle in Brouwer and Wilson to the top 6 and roll with three balanced lines, something like this.

Kuznetsov-Backstrom-Brouwer
Wilson-Johansson-Ovechkin
Galiev-Laich-Forsberg

Either way, I'm happy with that top 9. And if Galiev or Wilson doesn't work out, we can hopefully keep Chimera around to fill their spot, or maybe Wolski or Perrault if one of them caches fire this year.

HSHS 09-12-2012 09:40 PM

Happy... Yeah for some real hockey news.

BrooklynCapsFan 09-12-2012 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSHS (Post 54280609)
Happy... Yeah for some real hockey news.

I can pretty much guarantee you that you're not gonna be happy about the next piece of real hockey news we get.

SimplySensational 09-12-2012 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus (Post 54275235)
Maybe because just last summer the Caps gave 3M/year to a guy who is worse than Brouwer in just about every way. Pretty easy to point to Ward's contract and say anything less than that is an insult.



Kuznetsov-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Galiev-Johansson-Forsberg
Wilson-Laich-Brouwer

I think that top 6 has enough grit to work a forecheck, particularly with that bruising 3rd line to do the heavy lifting. If for some reason that doesn't work, you could shuffle in Brouwer and Wilson to the top 6 and roll with three balanced lines, something like this.

Kuznetsov-Backstrom-Brouwer
Wilson-Johansson-Ovechkin
Galiev-Laich-Forsberg

Either way, I'm happy with that top 9. And if Galiev or Wilson doesn't work out, we can hopefully keep Chimera around to fill their spot, or maybe Wolski or Perrault if one of them caches fire this year.

We'll see if Galievs playoffs were a fluke, but it seems the ambition is there to get to the NHL.

Capitlols 09-12-2012 10:56 PM

I like it. To be honest, I thought Brouwer would go back to Chicago, glad he decided to re-up.


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