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-   -   Confirmed Signing with Link: Daugaviņ (OTT) to Dinamo Riga (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1261079)

Helpoing 09-17-2012 06:06 AM

Daugaviņ (OTT) to Dinamo Riga
 
He can't play tonight, because the contract isn't yet submitted to the league, but he will hit the ice on Friday @ Atlant. And now we will see how good/bad he has become during his NA career.
Link

vorky 09-17-2012 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helpoing (Post 54391459)
He can't play tonight, because the contract isn't yet submitted to the league, but he will hit the ice on Friday @ Atlant. And now we will see how good/bad he has become during his NA career.
Link

another reason why this lockout is usefull

Off topic - I said a few years ago that Grigorenko made mistake by going to CHL... now a proof. Another year in juniors instead of senior hockey. His problem. Buchnevich, born 95, says HI :D

Peter25 09-17-2012 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 54391509)
His problem

Not his problem only. Had Grigorenko stayed in Russia he would have become a poor man's Malkin. Now he will be a career minor leaguer and a fringe player. Russian national team might have lost it's future #2 center because of Grigorenko's decision to play in the CHL.

ozo 09-17-2012 07:03 AM

Phew, where would we be without Peter25 disclaimer? :D

SoundAndFury 09-17-2012 08:59 AM

Oh for God sakes enough of this crap. Yeah, he would had became a next Malkin playing senior hockey - 5 minutes per game on the 4th line

vorky 09-17-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundAndFury (Post 54393049)
Oh for God sakes enough of this crap. Yeah, he would had became a next Malkin playing senior hockey - 5 minutes per game on the 4th line

yeah, Kuznetsov saying hi

SoundAndFury 09-17-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 54393229)
yeah, Kuznetsov saying hi

Hi. Grigorenko is not Kuznetsov and his situation is different in so many ways I see no point comparing them.

vorky 09-17-2012 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundAndFury (Post 54393357)
Hi. Grigorenko is not Kuznetsov and his situation is different in so many ways I see no point comparing them.

yeah, but Kuznestov is star, Grigorensko junior player... says everything. If Grigs stayed, he would start 2nd KHL season these days... he went over to play NHL. Why does not he play NHL today? There is no NHL? :sarcasm: He lost 2 years of development in CHL. I like how Kucherov did it, he failed in KHL, so switch to CHL. Grigs gave up to play KHL... and now he must play junior hockey instead of senior one.

he played horrible summer series against Canada. Everybody knows it

SoundAndFury 09-17-2012 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 54393493)
yeah, but Kuznestov is star, Grigorensko junior player... says everything. If Grigs stayed, he would start 2nd KHL season these days... he went over to play NHL. Why does not he play NHL today? There is no NHL? :sarcasm: He lost 2 years of development in CHL. I like how Kucherov did it, he failed in KHL, so switch to CHL. Grigs gave up to play KHL... and now he must play junior hockey instead of senior one.

he played horrible summer series against Canada. Everybody knows it

Fact that Kuznetsov is a star and Grigorenko is a junior player says nothing because they are 20 and 18 years old. If Grigs stayed he would play in MHL or 5-8 minutes a game in KHL. As of now, he can play 25 minutes a game in QMJHL which is never a bad thing for 18 year old. There is no NHL for a few months or so, it's not like his career is over because NHL is no more. Frankly, I don't think he's NHL ready anyway.

To put it simply, what's the problem with playing junior hockey when you are 18? One more season in QMJHL can only do him good.

vorky 09-17-2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundAndFury (Post 54393761)
Fact that Kuznetsov is a star and Grigorenko is a junior player says nothing because they are 20 and 18 years old. If Grigs stayed he would play in MHL or 5-8 minutes a game in KHL. As of now, he can play 25 minutes a game in QMJHL which is never a bad thing for 18 year old. There is no NHL for a few months or so, it's not like his career is over because NHL is no more. Frankly, I don't think he's NHL ready anyway.

To put it simply, what's the problem with playing junior hockey when you are 18? One more season in QMJHL can only do him good.

It is a problem if you can play senior hockey. Another example, Slepyshev, born 94, TOI around 15 min. Yes, it is so bad for 18 y old player.

If Grigs did not make KHL, he would play VHL or MHL which are the same as Q

Peter25 09-17-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundAndFury (Post 54393357)
Hi. Grigorenko is not Kuznetsov

At 16 Grigorenko was AT LEAST as good as Kuznetsov was at 16. Kuz was not even the best player in Russia at 16 in his age group. Kirill Kabanov was. Then Kabanov went to the CHL and became a bust. Grigs is following Kabanov's footsteps. What an idiot!

Peter25 09-17-2012 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 54393987)
It is a problem if you can play senior hockey. Another example, Slepyshev, born 94, TOI around 15 min. Yes, it is so bad for 18 y old player.

It would not surprise me if Slepyshev ended up being a better player than Grigorenko despite having far less natural talent.

BalticWarrior 09-17-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter25 (Post 54394815)
At 16 Grigorenko was AT LEAST as good as Kuznetsov was at 16. Kuz was not even the best player in Russia at 16 in his age group. Kirill Kabanov was. Then Kabanov went to the CHL and became a bust. Grigs is following Kabanov's footsteps. What an idiot!

Yeah.CHL is good for canadians,not for europeans though.

SoundAndFury 09-17-2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 54393987)
It is a problem if you can play senior hockey. Another example, Slepyshev, born 94, TOI around 15 min. Yes, it is so bad for 18 y old player.

If Grigs did not make KHL, he would play VHL or MHL which are the same as Q

Slepyshev plays for one of the worst teams of the league as did Kuznetsov in his post-draft year. Grigs would have to play for CSKA. There's quite a difference.

And there is nothing even similar to Saint John Sea Dogs in the MHL. Not even talking about exposure to scouts, adaptating to smaller rinks and so on.

SoundAndFury 09-17-2012 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 54394887)
Yeah.CHL is good for canadians,not for europeans though.

I'm sick and tired of these cliches. It's good for Pelss or Faksa or whatever, it's about your skill set not your passport.

Peter25 09-17-2012 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundAndFury (Post 54394927)
Slepyshev plays for one of the worst teams of the league as did Kuznetsov in his post-draft year. Grigs would have to play for CSKA. There's quite a difference.

CSKA is not stacked at center at all. If Grigorenko had stayed in Russia he could be even the first line center of the CSKA right now, and most certainly he would play in top three lines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundAndFury (Post 54394927)
And there is nothing even similar to Saint John Sea Dogs in the MHL. Not even talking about exposure to scouts, adaptating to smaller rinks and so on.

These are tired old arguments. For Russians it is most important to learn the skills first (and this has to happen in Russia, not in North America). After that there is plenty of time to learn the language, different culture etc. There is no sense for a player to leave Russia until his skills are fully developed (Malkin, Ovechkin and Datsyuk were fully developed hockey players when they left Russia).

The CHL will do nothing but ruin and disrupt the extremely important process of learning skills at the age between 16 and 18. These players STOP developing after they go there and in most cases they also REGRESS. Their skills are worse at 20 than they were at 16 or 17 then they left Russia.

This must be stopped. Russia is losing too many talents because of this harmful practise.

Peter25 09-17-2012 10:49 AM

After watching the last WCJ it is clear to be that Grigorenko will be a bust. He could barely skate and seemed to be standing still for the most of the game. How can a player lose all of his skills in less than a year? Well, that is what the CHL do to players.

BalticWarrior 09-17-2012 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundAndFury (Post 54395191)
I'm sick and tired of these cliches. It's good for Pelss or Faksa or whatever, it's about your skill set not your passport.

Daugaviņ leaving Latvia looked like he would be 1-2 liner in NHL,look at him now..

SoundAndFury 09-17-2012 11:22 AM

1. Why guys like Namestnikov or Yakupov are not regressing? Why are they developing? Why I can't hear your cries how CHL ruined Yakupov? Because it didn't. CHL is not to blame for Grigorenko or any other guy being a bust. In some cases it's a factor, in some cases it benefits them or even saves their careers. Guys like Victor Rask or Pelss for example benefited greatly from moving to CHL.

2. I don't know how Daugavins looked for Latvians but for scouts he was always a project type of player with an upside to be a scoring winger. That's why he was picked #91, not like in the first round. Being picked so late it's actually great he got into NHL at all.

Helpoing 09-17-2012 01:29 PM

I hope that Daugava can ignite our 2nd line when paired with Giroux.

v-man 09-17-2012 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 54395807)
Daugaviņ leaving Latvia looked like he would be 1-2 liner in NHL,look at him now..

LOL. His production between Riga2000 and the CHL jumped by 45 points in his first year. If he didn't make the jump, he would have been long forgotten by the Sens system and playing with Torpedo for years by this point. The only thing that stunted his development here was his first few seasons in the AHL due to Cory Clouston's personal vendetta and Bryan Murry giving his draft picks preferential treatment over Muckler's. The CHL was greatly positive for rounding out his game. If you take a look at Latvia's leading forwards, they're almost all products of the North American system (Karsums, Sprukts, Darzins). And the only people who though he'd be a first liner in the NHL were fanboy kids who know nothing about the game. I guess you were one of them. If it wasn't for his appearance in the WC, he would have been drafted in the last round with Kulda, if at all.

BalticWarrior 09-17-2012 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v-man (Post 54414131)
LOL. His production between Riga2000 and the CHL jumped by 45 points in his first year. If he didn't make the jump, he would have been long forgotten by the Sens system and playing with Torpedo for years by this point. The only thing that stunted his development here was his first few seasons in the AHL due to Cory Clouston's personal vendetta and Bryan Murry giving his draft picks preferential treatment over Muckler's. The CHL was greatly positive for rounding out his game. If you take a look at Latvia's leading forwards, they're almost all products of the North American system (Karsums, Sprukts, Darzins). And the only people who though he'd be a first liner in the NHL were fanboy kids who know nothing about the game. I guess you were one of them. If it wasn't for his appearance in the WC, he would have been drafted in the last round with Kulda, if at all.

You know what,that would even be better,than what he is now a checker in 4th line,atleast there he would be one of the scoring leaders and wouldnt be as pathetic when wc`s came around.

SoundAndFury 09-18-2012 06:13 AM

Being a scorer doesn't mean you are a better player. Kazakhstan has a national team full of scorers who consistently every second year do their scoring in Division 1.

ozo 09-18-2012 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 54414505)
You know what,that would even be better,than what he is now a checker in 4th line,atleast there he would be one of the scoring leaders and wouldnt be as pathetic when wc`s came around.

Here we go again. Remind me, please, how effective exactly in last WC was DR leader M. Redlihs? Or Avangard's first line D (former Sibir captain) and the Gagarin cup finalist Pujacs?

By the looks of it KHL ruins players. We should ice full roster of MHL players like Indrasis. You have it all figured out. :laugh:

smitty10 09-18-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 54395807)
Daugaviņ leaving Latvia looked like he would be 1-2 liner in NHL,look at him now..

Pretty poor argument. Look at how many players project as top 6 players and don't even carve out good European careers. You can't say that it's not normal for someone's progression and potential change between 16 and 20 years old. Kaspars is playing in the NHL now in a bottom 6 role, which is much more than anyone expects from a 3rd round pick, considering most don't even make the NHL.

Europeans like to think all of their prospects are sure-things, but in reality there are probably a similar percentage of European busts to success of guys that come to NA for their development as there are any other nationality who develop at home.


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