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-   -   Pros & Cons to an Entire Season Being Wiped Out (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1261555)

Jussha 09-18-2012 07:06 AM

Pros & Cons to an Entire Season Being Wiped Out
 
Just thought we could share what we think are the pros and cons to the wings losing an entire season due to the lockout,

I'll start with the cons, which are more significant at least imo

1) CONS

- of course we as fans lose an entire year without getting to watch the red wings.

- we waste a year of what might be the last few very effective years of Pavel Datsyuk. With all the past speculation that he may not sign a new contract after this one as he wants to finish his career in Russia, who knows if he even comes back if he really enjoys the one year in Bars Kazan. Is it worth it to come back for just one year to finish the contract. If he comes back though maybe that's at least a sign he plans on resigning after.

- we may possibly have a bigger logjam of forwards as our prospects get another full year of seasoning in the AHL. Hakan has said he doubts that Calle Jarnkrok will need to spend time in the AHL. If that is true, that means he might be ready next season. Nyquist should be ready, what about Tatar, it will be his 4th full season in the AHL. I'm assuming he will be ready as well or very close to being ready. Does Joakim Andersson and Jan Mursak and Cory Emmerton even still have a spot on this team if this is the case. I have a soft spot for Mursak and really think that last season's injury ruined his chances of having a permanent spot on this team going forward, but if Nyquist, Tatar, and Jarnkrok are indeed ready, it may simply be a numbers game for Mursak, Emmerton, and Andersson.

2) PROS

- Gustav Nyquist should be ready for a top 6 role immediately to start the 2013-14 season. If he got stronger this offseason, and another full year in the AHL where he hopefully gets even better, he will have another offseason of training to continue getting stronger, which hopefully should make him ready for full time top 6 duty to start the next season

- We get another offseason to try and sign a big name UFA

- Maybe Holland starts cutting bait with our logjam of forwards. As much as I like Cleary and appreciate what he has done for the team, hopefully Holland realizes that you got to cut bait with some of these guys such as Cleary and he is not resigned. Drew Miller, even though he is a very servicable 4th liner/bench player, we probably have to cut bait with him too. Ideally, Bert understands with another year of prospect development that his place on the team is also less relevant and he simply retires (I don't care if he counts towards the cap still) or is the player we use a one time buy out on if the new CBA allows that. I'd assume if he is bought out Holland would offer him a spot on the team still in some type of team management role. If we can cut spots with those 3 guys, maybe there is room in our forward corps for the youngins who are ready (Nyquist, Tatar, Jarnkrok, Mursak, etc.) and we can even go for a big name UFA again. If Brunner is truly playing in Swiss League instead too rather than the AHL, I wonder if the wings bother signing him again.

Lineup I would like to see if season starts 2013-2014

Nyquist - Datsyuk - UFA signing
Filppula - Zetterberg - Franzen
Tatar - Helm - Samuelsson (I wish his name wasn't here but it is lol)
Tootoo - Abdelkader - Mursak/Eaves

If we can't sign a big name UFA and Jarnkrok is indeed ready

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Filppula
Samuelsson - Zetterberg - Franzen
Tatar - Helm - Jarnkrok (might be better to get him adjusted to pro game on the wing)
Tootoo - Abdelkader - Mursak/Eaves

Shoalzie 09-18-2012 08:00 AM

With the threat of a lockout looming, I kind of held out hope that Nick wouldn't have announced his retirement when he did and just used the lockout as a way to recharge the batteries...and perhaps play in a shortened season and then maybe call it quits after that. From his standpoint, I don't think you predict there's going to be a work stoppage and play that game with the Wings and his family. He's right in what he did but I wonder if it crossed his mind.

The pros pretty much all revolve around allowing some of the Wings youth to get more seasoning in the AHL...and they can do it guilt-free. Plus, this AHL is going to be pretty with quite a few quality younger players being sent down by other teams to play during the lockout. It'll be good for Nyquist and Smith. I was hoping Brunner would play with the Griffs but I see he chose to play in Switzerland during the lockout.

mindfly 09-18-2012 08:07 AM

There are NO pros

SoupNazi 09-18-2012 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mindfly (Post 54418735)
There are NO pros

I can't believe I actually agree with Mindfly, but I agree with him.

ProPAIN 09-18-2012 09:11 AM

Isn't Bertuzzi signed for the 13/14 season too?

Anyways, I don't see too much of a pro of having a whole lockout season with a lot of the players not even playing in regularily in top leagues. Players that were developing for once (Filppula, Helm, Ericsson, etc.) will be hindered by having a whole year out of the NHL. What is Ericsson going to achieve in terms of development in a third tier league?

Yes, we might not be able to see if this season would have been such a disaster (like many "fans" around here seem to think). But then again, that's not much of a "pro".

Heaton 09-18-2012 10:06 AM

Silver lining™.

Frk It 09-18-2012 10:08 AM

If there are any pros, they are so outweighed by the cons that they are completely irrelevant.

Jussha 09-18-2012 10:21 AM

of course there is no real pro, but I gotta find a way to make myself feel better about no hockey, and like Heaton said, silver lining!!!

Flowah 09-18-2012 10:33 AM

I won't see the Wings get bounced in the first round again. That's kind of good news...

Sameheda 09-18-2012 10:37 AM

Pro: Z rests his back and bangs his wife enough times that he finally gets a LITTLE tired of her and focuses on having an amazing regular season AND post-season.

DarkReign 09-18-2012 10:45 AM

Big Pro:

Dont have top watch the Wings struggle to finish 7th.

sully61 09-18-2012 10:54 AM

Pro: a chance we get a high draft pick. Seth Jones would be nice i guess

RedWingsNow* 09-18-2012 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jussha (Post 54418199)
Just thought we could share what we think are the pros and cons to the wings losing an entire season due to the lockout,

I'll start with the cons, which are more significant at least imo

1) CONS

- of course we as fans lose an entire year without getting to watch the red wings.

- we waste a year of what might be the last few very effective years of Pavel Datsyuk. With all the past speculation that he may not sign a new contract after this one as he wants to finish his career in Russia, who knows if he even comes back if he really enjoys the one year in Bars Kazan. Is it worth it to come back for just one year to finish the contract. If he comes back though maybe that's at least a sign he plans on resigning after.

- we may possibly have a bigger logjam of forwards as our prospects get another full year of seasoning in the AHL. Hakan has said he doubts that Calle Jarnkrok will need to spend time in the AHL. If that is true, that means he might be ready next season. Nyquist should be ready, what about Tatar, it will be his 4th full season in the AHL. I'm assuming he will be ready as well or very close to being ready. Does Joakim Andersson and Jan Mursak and Cory Emmerton even still have a spot on this team if this is the case. I have a soft spot for Mursak and really think that last season's injury ruined his chances of having a permanent spot on this team going forward, but if Nyquist, Tatar, and Jarnkrok are indeed ready, it may simply be a numbers game for Mursak, Emmerton, and Andersson.

2) PROS

- Gustav Nyquist should be ready for a top 6 role immediately to start the 2013-14 season. If he got stronger this offseason, and another full year in the AHL where he hopefully gets even better, he will have another offseason of training to continue getting stronger, which hopefully should make him ready for full time top 6 duty to start the next season

- We get another offseason to try and sign a big name UFA

- Maybe Holland starts cutting bait with our logjam of forwards. As much as I like Cleary and appreciate what he has done for the team, hopefully Holland realizes that you got to cut bait with some of these guys such as Cleary and he is not resigned. Drew Miller, even though he is a very servicable 4th liner/bench player, we probably have to cut bait with him too. Ideally, Bert understands with another year of prospect development that his place on the team is also less relevant and he simply retires (I don't care if he counts towards the cap still) or is the player we use a one time buy out on if the new CBA allows that. I'd assume if he is bought out Holland would offer him a spot on the team still in some type of team management role. If we can cut spots with those 3 guys, maybe there is room in our forward corps for the youngins who are ready (Nyquist, Tatar, Jarnkrok, Mursak, etc.) and we can even go for a big name UFA again. If Brunner is truly playing in Swiss League instead too rather than the AHL, I wonder if the wings bother signing him again.

Lineup I would like to see if season starts 2013-2014

Nyquist - Datsyuk - UFA signing
Filppula - Zetterberg - Franzen
Tatar - Helm - Samuelsson (I wish his name wasn't here but it is lol)
Tootoo - Abdelkader - Mursak/Eaves

If we can't sign a big name UFA and Jarnkrok is indeed ready

Nyquist - Datsyuk - Filppula
Samuelsson - Zetterberg - Franzen
Tatar - Helm - Jarnkrok (might be better to get him adjusted to pro game on the wing)
Tootoo - Abdelkader - Mursak/Eaves


Good post. Along with losing Datsyuk, who has been the best reason to watch hockey over the last 10 years, I'm just concerned that what remains of our elite players (Datsyuk/Zetterberg and maybe Kronwall) are another year older and slower.
With the retirement and Lidstrom and departure of Stuart, it's really looking like the window on this team has closed...

But another may open.
My guess is that Jarnkrok waits one more year.
But I tell you, I like the way you're thinking. And, Bert has mysteriously disappeared from your lineup. I don't see that happening. But I like the way you're thinking.

It's time to see what players we have who can open the next window.

So. Pros?
Can't think of any, to be honest. Except saving money on cable.
Cons?
One less year to watch Datsyuk near his best.
D-Z get older.

WingedWheel1987 09-18-2012 11:15 AM

Pro - I can imagine the Wings win the Stanley Cup

Con - Reality

crashman 09-18-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoupNazi (Post 54418939)
I can't believe I actually agree with Mindfly, but I agree with him.

So do I.

Amazing, isn't it?

TatarTangle 09-18-2012 11:36 AM

I'm more worried about losing Datsyuk than [already] losing Lidstrom. Nashville quickly learned shut down Datysuk and you shut down the Red Wings

Frk It 09-18-2012 12:10 PM

Third line of

Nyquist-Jarnkrok-Jurco

in 2013-2014... :sarcasm:

Flowah 09-18-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frk It (Post 54423399)
Third line of

Nyquist-Jarnkrok-Jurco

in 2013-2014... :sarcasm:

From what I hear of their projections, that's like 5 Datsyuks and 3 Zetterbergs.

TheMoreYouKnow 09-18-2012 12:39 PM

There are some pros, the biggest one being that nobody here would have hopes/delusions of Cup glory in April 2013 only for them to be destroyed pretty ruthlessly by a first or second round opponent.

Crymson 09-18-2012 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoalzie (Post 54418661)
With the threat of a lockout looming, I kind of held out hope that Nick wouldn't have announced his retirement when he did and just used the lockout as a way to recharge the batteries...and perhaps play in a shortened season and then maybe call it quits after that. From his standpoint, I don't think you predict there's going to be a work stoppage and play that game with the Wings and his family. He's right in what he did but I wonder if it crossed his mind.

Interesting point. But I'm not sure if anyone really considered a lockout likely, given how well the league has been doing and the trauma from the still-recent 2004-2005 lockout. I mean, did any of us really expect another one?

The Zetterberg Era 09-18-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crymson (Post 54424275)
Interesting point. But I'm not sure if anyone really considered a lockout likely, given how well the league has been doing and the trauma from the still-recent 2004-2005 lockout. I mean, did any of us really expect another one?

Well when the league said they would do it over a year ago and the NHLPA hired Donald Fehr, cannot speak for anyone else but I thought this is where it was going. I don't think it will be the whole season, but I don't expect an agreement until mid to late November.

So I will add a selfish Wings con, that actually could just turn into a selfish hockey fan con. This is going to cancel HBO 24/7. Since they were close to killing the series even before the Wings delivered one of their cash cows, my guess is that series will be gone forever.

Since we are blaming everything on either the Owners or NHLPA, I also blame them and the impending lockout for MSU no showing in football this weekend. Just made the Saturday that much worse.:(

Also a seriously big con is what happens to UFA's depending on the CBA Filppula and Howard. They are core pieces and they have the right to head right to free agency if the whole season is missed. That is a big problem as far as I am concerned.

Unrealistic pro, the cap doesn't change much and the Wings become big time suitors for Getzlaf, Perry, and Edler.

Tatar 09-18-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sully61 (Post 54421767)
Pro: a chance we get a high draft pick. Seth Jones would be nice i guess

I was going to ask, how is that going to work?

Frk It 09-18-2012 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatar (Post 54431783)
I was going to ask, how is that going to work?

This is what they did last time...

As a lockout cancelled the games of the 2004–05 NHL season, the draft order was determined by lottery on July 22, 2005. Teams were assigned 1 to 3 balls based on their playoff appearances and first overall draft picks from the past three years. According to the draft order, the selection worked its way up to 30 as usual; then instead of repeating the order as in past years, the draft "snaked" back down to the team with the first pick. Therefore the team with the first pick overall would not pick again until the 60th pick. The team with the 30th pick would also get the 31st pick. The new CBA reduced the draft to seven rounds in length, compared to nine rounds in years past.

However with the CBA expired, the way to determine a draft next year would likely be completely different.

Schroedingers Cat 09-18-2012 10:45 PM

Losing a season to the lockout would suck, but I honestly think it could be beneficial to the Wings, for these reasons:

A. A year of contracts burned;
B. Development time for our prospects;
C. Players being released to UFA after buyouts\rollback\contraction.

Looking at the roster, though, Holland was handing out multi-year deals like candy this summer so we are pretty much stuck with the same ****** roster in 2013-2014. The only way he could fix it would be with lots of buyouts. If any of the big name free agents head to FA next summer I could see Holland buying out a few guys and making pitches; however, it's likely this is our 2013-2014 roster

Nyquist-Dats-Bertuzzi
Flip-Zetts-Franzen
Samuelsson-Helm-UFA
Abdelkader-Emmerton-Tootoo

White-Kronwall
Quincey-Ericcson
Cola-Smith

And that roster would not make the playoffs. We don't have room, even in 2013-2014, for bringing in more than 1 player with the current contract set we have.

If Holland was willing to dump Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, Tootoo, Emmerton in the event of a lockout and restock with high-quality rookies in the bottom-six (Jarnkrok, Tatar, Sheahan) or sign a few FAs (Getzlaf, Edler) our roster could look like

Zetts-Getz-Franzen
Flip-Dats-Nyquist
Tatar-Helm-Jarnkrok
Abdelkader-Sheahan-Bertuzzi\Samuelsson

Kronwall-Edler
Smith-Ericsson
Quincey-White

And that roster could be a top-3 roster. Too bad it's a pipe dream and we'll be looking at Bert\Sammy in the top-six in 2014!

(IMO Tatar-Helm-Jarnkrok would be a hell of a line).

On a side note, the Wings should've allowed Brendan Smith and Nyquist to sign a contract in the SEL or SM-Liiga as those leagues will all be closer to NHL quality than the AHL. The SEL and SML is gonna get flooded with NHL talent.

jaster 09-18-2012 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat (Post 54438561)
Losing a season to the lockout would suck, but I honestly think it could be beneficial to the Wings, for these reasons:

A. A year of contracts burned;
B. Development time for our prospects;
C. Players being released to UFA after buyouts\rollback\contraction.

Those things would all happen even if there were no lockout though.


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