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-   -   Proposal: Winnipeg - Edmonton (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1261589)

I3ig13ig 09-18-2012 09:56 AM

Winnipeg - Edmonton
 
:jets

D Mark Stuart



:edmonton

LW Magnus Pajarvi Svenson
D Andy Sutton
Conditional 3rd Round Selection in 2013 (becomes a 2nd if MPS doesn't score 30 or more points)



Why Winnipeg does it:
They receive a talented and big bodied LW prospect coming off a sophmore slump who could slot in on the 2nd or 3rd line behind Kane and flip between Ladd* and himself and maybe find his way again. He adds size and skill up front. They also add Andy Sutton to help counter the loss of a shutdown presence on their blueline who also is a great leader and plays a very hard hitting game, sometimes going over the edge albeit. The third round selection could be anwhere from early 60's to mid 70's.

* I personally see Ladd as a Boland type player; an excellent third liner but can be put on the second line comfortably if needed.

Why Edmonton does it:
They get an excellent shutdown, hitting defender which definitely gives the Oilers some added strength and vetern presence in their Top 4. He seems very sound and defensively solid in his own end from the games I've seen (live in Winnipeg) with a slight offensive touch. He would be a much welcomed addition to the blueline.

I know that Bogosian was recently injured and that he is a very well liked Jets defender, but with no one knowing how long the lockout will be, I am wondering if this would possibly be enough to pry him out of Winnipeg. Is the value there? What else (realistically) would Winnipeg want if not? One of the Oilers defensive prospects (not named Klefbom)? Upgrade the pick?

I'm an Oiler fan living in the Peg so I think I have both teams best interests in mind. :dunno:

jumptheshark 09-18-2012 10:25 AM

Edmonton turns this down flate. MPS is the latest whipping boy for the fans and I think he will bounce back and take over the second line lw position on the oilers next season.

Despite what some posters think, the oilers have several top flight D-men coming up who will be on the team shortly.

Stuart is two years away from being a UFA.

Bigger issue is the fact Stuart does not play 20+min a night. He averages between 15 to 18 a night. On their depth chart Staurt is number 5 and the jets do not have the best d in the league.

But I will play. Additional addition to the trade, if MPS scores 30 goals in any of the next two season the oilers get 2 first round draft picks from the Jets

Seanahue 09-18-2012 10:30 AM

Stuart is a heart and soul guy. He blocks shots, plays the game hard, and is always willing to stand up for his teammates. I think MPS will be a good player but we don't have the room on LW for him. I am not saying the value isn't there but Winnipeg easily says no I think.

Ask Bruins fans what they think about Stuart and you'll see that he holds more value than you think.

Gump Hasek 09-18-2012 10:38 AM

Mark Stuart won the Dan Snyder Memorial award last season. That speaks to how both the organization and his teammates view him.

http://jets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=626482

I highly doubt they'd even consider trading him for the OP's offer.

thadd 09-18-2012 11:02 AM

Why the hell is MPS in a new proposal every day? What happened to Hemsky and Gagner?

MPS
Young - Check
Fast as they come - Check
Size - Check
Awesome play in his own end - Check

He's in the AHL so that he can get more ice time to develop his offensive game. Not because he sucks. He can't get enough minutes in Edmonton right now. The AHL better serves his learning curve.

We've already got Smid and Schultz to play Stuart's role.

Edmonton doesn't need any tweaking. They just need time. MPS is already a fine 3rd liner. That's not going to change. There's no point in trading him before we find out what he's going to turn into.

YouCantYandleThis* 09-18-2012 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumptheshark (Post 54421157)
Edmonton turns this down flate. MPS is the latest whipping boy for the fans and I think he will bounce back and take over the second line lw position on the oilers next season.

Despite what some posters think, the oilers have several top flight D-men coming up who will be on the team shortly.

Stuart is two years away from being a UFA.

Bigger issue is the fact Stuart does not play 20+min a night. He averages between 15 to 18 a night. On their depth chart Staurt is number 5 and the jets do not have the best d in the league.

But I will play. Additional addition to the trade, if MPS scores 30 goals in any of the next two season the oilers get 2 first round draft picks from the Jets

I think we have different definitions of 'top-flight'. Schultz looks to be good though.

I agree with Thadd though, not sure why MPS, at age 21, has become a trading chip for the Oilers. There's a reason this guy was picked in the top 10, which you'll see as he becomes bigger and stronger, and in my personal opinion, he'll make you regret not taking a D-man with one of your recent draft picks. (taaake it easy.)

But hey thats whats so great about this place..personal opinions ;)

vBurmi 09-18-2012 11:10 AM

No thanks. I prefer to keep Stuart and want nothing to do with Sutton. IMO Stuart would be hard to get out of Winnipeg as he's too much of a leader and our only pure shutdown D.

Also, your statement that Ladd is a 3rd liner is ridiculous. He put up 28 and 29 goals in his last two seasons. If those were 30 goal seasons, everyone would be falling all over themselves talking about how he's a rare breed that can hit, play the PK and score.

Grind 09-18-2012 11:16 AM

I don't know....as a winnipeg fan i'd probably do that.

I know Stuart is loved as a "heart and soul guy" and a shot blocker, but I don't really see him as that important. Don't get me wrong i love the guy, but if their offering a lw who has the potential to be a top 6er + the additional stuff?

Hell yeah i do that trade

Grind 09-18-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vBurmi (Post 54422069)
No thanks. I prefer to keep Stuart and want nothing to do with Sutton. IMO Stuart would be hard to get out of Winnipeg as he's too much of a leader and our only pure shutdown D.

Also, your statement that Ladd is a 3rd liner is ridiculous. He put up 28 and 29 goals in his last two seasons. If those were 30 goal seasons, everyone would be falling all over themselves talking about how he's a rare breed that can hit, play the PK and score.

while I recognize Stuart would be hard to get out of Winnipeg, I do think we as fans have a bit of an unnecessary love for the man, and I personally would do this trade.

regarding the bold: could not possibly agree more. Those who "see ladd as 3rd line winger" clearly haven't seen ladd play in the past two years. The guy is an excellent "third wheel" on the first line and would be an above average second liner. if 50+ points puts you on the third line, you have the best team in hockey, period.

Prairie Habs 09-18-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thadd (Post 54421913)
Why the hell is MPS in a new proposal every day? What happened to Hemsky and Gagner?

MPS
Young - Check
Fast as they come - Check
Size - Check
Awesome play in his own end - Check

He's in the AHL so that he can get more ice time to develop his offensive game. Not because he sucks. He can't get enough minutes in Edmonton right now. The AHL better serves his learning curve.

We've already got Smid and Schultz to play Stuart's role.

Edmonton doesn't need any tweaking. They just need time. MPS is already a fine 3rd liner. That's not going to change. There's no point in trading him before we find out what he's going to turn into.

Agreed. Why trade players of value when you can just offer garbage for other teams top players?

broc 09-18-2012 11:55 AM

It's a pretty easy no from here.

Stuart is underrated, and there is probably no other prospect in the world that took as big a step back last season as MPS. He doesn't fit our needs, and we're giving up our best shutdown "hard helmet" type player, with no one else like him in the pipeline.

lol @ the guy who said Jets add 2 first rounders if MPS turns out. If he doesn't, does that mean you add 2 firsts? lol

MisterD 09-18-2012 11:58 AM

I like Stuart, but would probably say no to the proposed deal. I don't know if he's that much of an upgrade over Smid or Schultz who play similar games.

I3ig13ig 09-18-2012 12:26 PM

I realize he holds lots of value to the Jets and thats why I think a great prospect, a replacemnet (while being a downgrade) of sorts and a pick shows he is worth something. With that being said, I understand why some Jets fans might not want to do this trade. I dont think much more could be added realistically though.

I love MPS, dont get me wrong, but in this league you have to give to get. I figure trading a winger away for a steady dman right now gives the Oilers a well needed boost on the blueline. Anyone who says MPS is a bust, holds no value or is garbage, obviously stares at MPS's last season but completely disregards his rookie season. Any team would love to have him.

Eskimo44 09-18-2012 12:46 PM

Mark Stuart is a 3rd pairing defenseman that can play occassionaly on the 2nd. He's not worth anything close to Paajarvi. Sutton and a 3rd/2nd is fair. Sutton and Stuart are both similar talents with Stuarts age and play making him worth a little bit more (hence the 3rd/2nd). Paajarvi for Stuart is just crazy.

Eskimo44 09-18-2012 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle (Post 54423113)
I like Stuart, but would probably say no to the proposed deal. I don't know if he's that much of an upgrade over Smid or Schultz who play similar games.

He's not an upgrade over either. Seriously he's more comprable to Andy Sutton than to either of those two.

Jets 09-18-2012 01:50 PM

The Jets are set at LW with Ladd, Kane and Pony. If Paarjavi was a RW, we might be a bit more enticed to make a deal. While the offer is good value both ways *including a slight overpayment that would be required to get Stu* I don't think WPG can afford to do it. We are in desperate need of a defensive dman and Stuart is literally our only D man who I wouldn't consider offensive. Hainsey is the next closest guy and his main talents aren't exactly fabulous defense. The Jets have Buff, Enstrom, Bogo, Hainsey and now Postma as 5 out of our 6 d that all play a fairly offensive minded game, and only have Stuart who is a stay at home defender. I think our need for a stay at home d man out weighs our need for a top 6 RW.

gooilgo 09-18-2012 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jets (Post 54425893)
The Jets are set at LW with Ladd, Kane and Pony. If Paarjavi was a RW, we might be a bit more enticed to make a deal. While the offer is good value both ways *including a slight overpayment that would be required to get Stu* I don't think WPG can afford to do it. We are in desperate need of a defensive dman and Stuart is literally our only D man who I wouldn't consider offensive. Hainsey is the next closest guy and his main talents aren't exactly fabulous defense. The Jets have Buff, Enstrom, Bogo, Hainsey and now Postma as 5 out of our 6 d that all play a fairly offensive minded game, and only have Stuart who is a stay at home defender. I think our need for a stay at home d man out weighs our need for a top 6 RW.

Pääjärvi can play both wings, some would argue he is better on the right than the left.

Personally I would not move Magnus at this point unless it was part of a package for a bigger upgrade on D or #2C.
I truly believe there is a player in there if he can regain his confidence. He showed what he was capable of in his rookie year and was impressive during his time in OKC.
Unfortunately Renney went into full ****** mode as regards to his handling of Pääjärvi last year. I am confident he will rebound from a disappointing sophomore year.

vBurmi 09-18-2012 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind (Post 54422189)
I don't know....as a winnipeg fan i'd probably do that.

I know Stuart is loved as a "heart and soul guy" and a shot blocker, but I don't really see him as that important. Don't get me wrong i love the guy, but if their offering a lw who has the potential to be a top 6er + the additional stuff?

Hell yeah i do that trade

I just don't know who we have as the heart and soul guy without him. I'm also obviously not as familiar with MPS as Oiler fans would be, which is partly why I'd be hesitant to do the trade. Speculating about prospects is hard enough when they're on your own team and even Oilers fans seem split on whether MPS will pan out at all. Having said that, my hesitation is in no way indicating I think it's a good trade for the Oilers either. I thought they had plenty of young defensemen coming up through the ranks that'll fill the bottom-4. IMO they need a legit top-2 D, which Stuart is certainly not.

broc 09-18-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskimo44 (Post 54424225)
Mark Stuart is a 3rd pairing defenseman that can play occassionaly on the 2nd. He's not worth anything close to Paajarvi. Sutton and a 3rd/2nd is fair. Sutton and Stuart are both similar talents with Stuarts age and play making him worth a little bit more (hence the 3rd/2nd). Paajarvi for Stuart is just crazy.

Um, yeah.. no.
Stuart >>>>> Sutton.

Being the same TYPE of player doesn't mean they are equal players. Komisarek is probably more similar to Sutton. Stuart isn't a bonehead. Sutton is becoming borderline NHL talent at this point in his career dude. Good luck getting Mark Stuart for anything short of an overpayment..

The Nuge 09-18-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vBurmi (Post 54427097)
I just don't know who we have as the heart and soul guy without him. I'm also obviously not as familiar with MPS as Oiler fans would be, which is partly why I'd be hesitant to do the trade. Speculating about prospects is hard enough when they're on your own team and even Oilers fans seem split on whether MPS will pan out at all. Having said that, my hesitation is in no way indicating I think it's a good trade for the Oilers either. I thought they had plenty of young defensemen coming up through the ranks that'll fill the bottom-4. IMO they need a legit top-2 D, which Stuart is certainly not.

Exactly. We don't need a bottom 4 dman to be an upgrade in our #6 slot, and even if it happened, there's no way we'd deal PRV to get that

Jamin 09-18-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broc (Post 54428335)
Um, yeah.. no.
Stuart >>>>> Sutton.

Being the same TYPE of player doesn't mean they are equal players. Komisarek is probably more similar to Sutton. Stuart isn't a bonehead. Sutton is becoming borderline NHL talent at this point in his career dude. Good luck getting Mark Stuart for anything short of an overpayment..

Ah I was waiting what post would turn this into a pissing match between fanbases. The infamous short of an overpayment statement. How long until my player is better then your player, my prospect is better etc

King Woodballs 09-18-2012 03:41 PM

I dont really see either team doing this.

But Edmonton probably turns this down "more"

Huffer 09-18-2012 03:42 PM

I would hate for the Jets to trade Stuart. Truth be told, I would love more Mark Stuarts on the team. I love heart and soul guys like him.

That being said, unless the Jets team felt that MPS wasn't going to make it, I can't see the Jets turning this down, nor the Oilers making this offer. MPS just seems like someone with too much upside to deal away for a 3rd pairing defenseman. Even though losing Stuart hurts the team toughness, I just can't see the Jets saying no to a 21 year old potential 2nd liner.

Grind 09-18-2012 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huffer (Post 54429001)
I would hate for the Jets to trade Stuart. Truth be told, I would love more Mark Stuarts on the team. I love heart and soul guys like him.

That being said, unless the Jets team felt that MPS wasn't going to make it, I can't see the Jets turning this down, nor the Oilers making this offer. MPS just seems like someone with too much upside to deal away for a 3rd pairing defenseman. Even though losing Stuart hurts the team toughness, I just can't see the Jets saying no to a 21 year old potential 2nd liner.

Exactly. Between you and WB you guys summed up what i've been trying to get at it. I get that fans think "stuart would cost an overpayment", but IMO this is that overpayment. Hell, even if MPS didn't become more then an average third liner, that's still an overpayment IMO (third liner + low uality 3rd pairing dman + pick for mid quality 3rd pairing d man? I do that hands down)

Bob E 09-18-2012 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huffer (Post 54429001)
I would hate for the Jets to trade Stuart. Truth be told, I would love more Mark Stuarts on the team. I love heart and soul guys like him.

That being said, unless the Jets team felt that MPS wasn't going to make it, I can't see the Jets turning this down, nor the Oilers making this offer. MPS just seems like someone with too much upside to deal away for a 3rd pairing defenseman. Even though losing Stuart hurts the team toughness, I just can't see the Jets saying no to a 21 year old potential 2nd liner.

Agree. Edmonton would never offer this, for that reason.

Stuart does not address a need the oilers have on d. They need a PP quarterback and top minutes dman. They likely hope Schultz can develop into that type of player in a couple of years, but that's not a guarantee.


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