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-   -   Value of: Top 6 Winger to Washington (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1263717)

MuffinMan 09-24-2012 10:15 AM

Top 6 Winger to Washington
 
So obviously the caps need a RW to play on the first line because Troy Brouwer is a third line player at the most. So what will it take to get a top 6 winger?

MiSe 09-24-2012 10:23 AM

They're certainly paying him as a Top 6 winger, so we'll have to live with it for now. We still need a top 6 winger, but I'm pretty sure they plan on Wolski filling in that role.

CraniumCram 09-24-2012 10:28 AM

Buffalo could use Laich.

In return you're looking at something like Stafford. Very similar contract and production.

nhlfan9191 09-24-2012 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiSe (Post 54552441)
They're certainly paying him as a Top 6 winger, so we'll have to live with it for now. We still need a top 6 winger, but I'm pretty sure they plan on Wolski filling in that role.

Wolski is the last guy you want filling that role.

Hivemind 09-24-2012 11:39 AM

So scoring right around 20 goals for three straight seasons makes you a 3rd line player at best? There are an awful lot of 3rd liners out there, then.

I don't mind Brouwer in the top six one bit. I would have definitely preferred to hang onto Semin to have a clear to six winger in the open spot that Wolski and Perreault will likely battle over, but I don't see many teams willing to part with a high-end player for the type of assets the Capitals have to spare. Not to mention we have a guy who's had multiple 20+ goal seasons on the wing playing at 3C (Laich) who could potentially be moved up if Johansson or Perreault can fit at 3C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cramdizzl (Post 54552533)
Buffalo could use Laich.

In return you're looking at something like Stafford. Very similar contract and production.

Or we could, you know, put Laich back on the wing.

BonMorrison 09-24-2012 11:42 AM

Clarke MacArthur for ???

Hivemind 09-24-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonMorrison (Post 54553873)
Clarke MacArthur for ???

Meh, the Capitals have enough 2nd/3rd line tweeners. Doesn't really help the problem at hand. If a winger was brought in, it would be a higher end player than MacArthur.

FAMOUSfin 09-24-2012 12:05 PM

Hendricks and a 3rd for Raymond?

MuffinMan 09-24-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystlyfe (Post 54553805)
So scoring right around 20 goals for three straight seasons makes you a 3rd line player at best? There are an awful lot of 3rd liners out there, then.

I don't mind Brouwer in the top six one bit. I would have definitely preferred to hang onto Semin to have a clear to six winger in the open spot that Wolski and Perreault will likely battle over, but I don't see many teams willing to part with a high-end player for the type of assets the Capitals have to spare. Not to mention we have a guy who's had multiple 20+ goal seasons on the wing playing at 3C (Laich) who could potentially be moved up if Johansson or Perreault can fit at 3C.

So you have no problem with someone who scores 20 goals on the first line?

NobodyBeatsTheWiz 09-24-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuffinMan (Post 54554347)
So you have no problem with someone who scores 20 goals on the first line?

Why would anyone?

Hivemind 09-24-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin (Post 54554321)
Hendricks and a 3rd for Raymond?

While I do feel the Caps need to add some speed, I'd pass on this. As I mentioned with Mac, too many 2nd/3rd line tweeners already. If we're adding someone via trade, we'd want a notable upgrade in our top six.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuffinMan (Post 54554347)
So you have no problem with someone who scores 20 goals on the first line?

Having a guy who can do the "dirty work" in front of the net and in the corners is an important aspect of many lines, including the first line. Brouwer can fill that role, much like Knuble did. I don't think he'll push 30 goals the way Knuble did, but 20 is still a respectable number and isn't going to drag the line down. Los Angeles won the Cup last year with a top line consisting of Dustin Brown (22G), Anze Kopitar (25G), and Justin Williams (22G).

Zoidberg Jesus 09-24-2012 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystlyfe (Post 54553805)
So scoring right around 20 goals for three straight seasons makes you a 3rd line player at best? There are an awful lot of 3rd liners out there, then.

I don't mind Brouwer in the top six one bit. I would have definitely preferred to hang onto Semin to have a clear to six winger in the open spot that Wolski and Perreault will likely battle over, but I don't see many teams willing to part with a high-end player for the type of assets the Capitals have to spare. Not to mention we have a guy who's had multiple 20+ goal seasons on the wing playing at 3C (Laich) who could potentially be moved up if Johansson or Perreault can fit at 3C.

He spent this year with Ovechkin and Backstrom/Laich, and was on the Toews-Kane line the previous two years. There are a lot of 3rd line wingers who'll score 20 in that situation. I think ideally, you don't want that type of player on your top line unless you've got some serious depth (like Sharp and Hossa) behind it, and the Caps don't have that. Unfortunately, we don't have enough depth elsewhere to dip into to upgrade on the wings. I really wish we'd just resigned Semin and avoided this whole issue.

Hivemind 09-24-2012 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus (Post 54558049)
He spent this year with Ovechkin and Backstrom/Laich, and was on the Toews-Kane line the previous two years. There are a lot of 3rd line wingers who'll score 20 in that situation. I think ideally, you don't want that type of player on your top line unless you've got some serious depth (like Sharp and Hossa) behind it, and the Caps don't have that. Unfortunately, we don't have enough depth elsewhere to dip into to upgrade on the wings. I really wish we'd just resigned Semin and avoided this whole issue.

He was far from exclusively on either of those lines. Last season, Brouwer and Ovechkin were together 10.63% of the time, but Brouwer was on lines not containing Ovechkin 9.17% of the time. In other words, 46% of Brouwer's shifts were away from Ovie. A similar story plays out with Chicago, where Brouwer was with Toews and/or Kane 8.52% of the time, but was not with either of them 6.24% of Chicago's shifts. 42.6% of Brouwer's shifts were spent away from both Toews and Kane.

But my point was that he's more than a third liner "at most." Can Brouwer play 3rd line effectively? Absolutely. But he's obviously capable of filling into a top six role and being a useful player there.

And, FWIW, it was Byfuglien with Kane and Toews during the playoffs when Chicago won the Cup.

MuffinMan 09-24-2012 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystlyfe (Post 54555665)

Having a guy who can do the "dirty work" in front of the net and in the corners is an important aspect of many lines, including the first line. Brouwer can fill that role, much like Knuble did. I don't think he'll push 30 goals the way Knuble did, but 20 is still a respectable number and isn't going to drag the line down. Los Angeles won the Cup last year with a top line consisting of Dustin Brown (22G), Anze Kopitar (25G), and Justin Williams (22G).

Difference is Kopitar had 76 points while Troy Brouwer had 33. Also LA won because of Quick and didnt rely on scoring like the caps do.

Ujjy 09-24-2012 05:28 PM

Patrick Kane for Backstrom.




Now to see how many Hawks and Caps fans I've pissed off :sarcasm:

senorchang 09-24-2012 05:38 PM

yakupov for carlson forsberg

nhlfan9191 09-24-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senorchang (Post 54560961)
yakupov for carlson forsberg

Does Washington really want another Russian? Lol.

Dr John Carlson 09-24-2012 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 (Post 54561341)
Does Washington really want another Russian? Lol.

Not at that price.

Prairie Habs 09-24-2012 05:57 PM

What would you give for Gionta at the deadline if Montreal isn't doing well? He was injured last year but he had 29 goals in each of his first two years here, is fast and very good defensively. He also elevates his game in the playoffs and already has a ring with NJ. He also has one more year on his deal at 5M cap hit, not sure if that would increase or decrease his value in your eyes.

Seikalym 09-24-2012 05:58 PM

Well, with the NHL being in the state it is now, I would think that Forsberg will be the perfect fit in 2013. Always hope for Kuznetsov in 2014 too. If there is a season, I'm fine with Wolski and T-Brow. Maybe make a move before the deadline.

Seikalym 09-24-2012 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prairie Habs (Post 54561409)
What would you give for Gionta at the deadline if Montreal isn't doing well? He was injured last year but he had 29 goals in each of his first two years here, is fast and very good defensively. He also elevates his game in the playoffs and already has a ring with NJ. He also has one more year on his deal at 5M cap hit, not sure if that would increase or decrease his value in your eyes.

Depends on how durable he would be during the season, but I'd give something like a 2nd + decent prospect like Flemming.

Prairie Habs 09-24-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seikalym (Post 54561435)
Well, with the NHL being in the state it is now, I would think that Forsberg will be the perfect fit in 2013. Always hope for Kuznetsov in 2014 too. If there is a season, I'm fine with Wolski and T-Brow. Maybe make a move before the deadline.

Wouldn't not having TC and preseason make it harder for the 2012 draftees to make the team? Or do you think he will play tougher competition overseas and also the later start date to the season will give him a bonus in development?

Kris Chreider 09-24-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 (Post 54553685)
Wolski is the last guy you want filling that role.

Wolski had a bad year, he came off a surgery to his hernia. He hit 50 points his sophomore year, 48 and then 47 the next. He's easily a 2nd-liner, maybe a borderline starter. I don't know why NYR was so desperate to get rid of him that they traded him for a minor-leaguer and a 3rd round pick.

Zoidberg Jesus 09-24-2012 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prairie Habs (Post 54561409)
What would you give for Gionta at the deadline if Montreal isn't doing well? He was injured last year but he had 29 goals in each of his first two years here, is fast and very good defensively. He also elevates his game in the playoffs and already has a ring with NJ. He also has one more year on his deal at 5M cap hit, not sure if that would increase or decrease his value in your eyes.

Well, if the salary cap comes down, which seems pretty likely to me, then I don't see how we could fit his contract in for the 13-14 season. Considering he hasn't hit 50 points since leaving the Devils (hell, even Wolski's hit 50 more recently than that), he's pretty overpaid at the moment too, so that makes him even less appealing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prairie Habs (Post 54561497)
Wouldn't not having TC and preseason make it harder for the 2012 draftees to make the team? Or do you think he will play tougher competition overseas and also the later start date to the season will give him a bonus in development?

I'm pretty sure he means the 13-14 season. Pretty decent chance he's ready for the NHL by then.

81 09-24-2012 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystlyfe (Post 54554047)
Meh, the Capitals have enough 2nd/3rd line tweeners. Doesn't really help the problem at hand. If a winger was brought in, it would be a higher end player than MacArthur.

Kulemin after a solid season in the KHL?


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