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-   -   ACTUAL Power Play Opportunities (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1265165)

Beville 09-28-2012 04:14 PM

ACTUAL Power Play Opportunities
 
Is there a stat for Actual Power Play time?

I mean, you'll look at a game and they'll say Team X went 0-for-7 on the PP, which would imply said team had 14 minutes of PP time.

Now, we all know in the great game of hockey that that is never quite the case, due to 4-on-4 and goals being scored...

So, to put it simply...

Has anyone devised a table or something to show how much ACTUAL PP time each team had?

Hammer Time 09-28-2012 04:54 PM

NHL.com game summaries include the exact amount of time each team spent on the PP, and also includes breakdowns by situation (5v4, 5v3, 4v3)

For example, here is the game summary for the Bruins/Canucks regular season game last January: http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreport...2/GS020598.HTM

Vancouver is credited as having been 4 for 11 in 13:34 of PP time and Boston as 0 for 7 in 12:24.

Aggregate data can be found on NHL.com as well:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...=powerPlayTime

In the most recent season, the Flyers led the league with 549 minutes on the power play, whereas the Avalanche only had 362 minutes of PP time.

Metzen 09-28-2012 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beville (Post 54643057)
Is there a stat for Actual Power Play time?

I mean, you'll look at a game and they'll say Team X went 0-for-7 on the PP, which would imply said team had 14 minutes of PP time.

Now, we all know in the great game of hockey that that is never quite the case, due to 4-on-4 and goals being scored...

So, to put it simply...

Has anyone devised a table or something to show how much ACTUAL PP time each team had?

NHL.com give you actual time stats.

Beville 09-29-2012 03:43 PM

I never even noticed that...

Thanks guys!

seventieslord 10-02-2012 04:27 PM

A more important question is, does this matter?

are there major discrepancies by the time the season is over between the rankings of teams by PP "opportunities" and by "actual PP time"? My assumption has always been that the official and well-known PPO stat is a very reasonable proxy for PP time. let's see:

PP time:

PHI
CBJ
MTL
DET
LAK
CAR
FLA
CHI
NYR
PIT
VAN
SJS
ANA
NJD
OTT
TBL
CGY
TOR
EDM
STL
MIN
PHX
BUF
BOS
WPG
DAL
NYI
WSH
NSH
COL

PPO:

PHI
CBJ
MTL
DET
CAR
LAK
PIT
VAN
FLA
NYR
CHI
ANA
SJS
OTT
STL
TBL
NJD
TOR
EDM
CGY
MIN
BUF
PHX
WPG
BOS
NSH
WSH
DAL
NYI
COL

biggest outliers:

St. Louis. they had 15th-most PPO, but 20th-most PP time. (5)
Pittsburgh. 7th/10th (3)
Vancouver. 8th-11th (3)
Chicago. 11th/8th (3)
New Jersey. 17th/14th (3)
Calgary. 20th/17th (3)
Nashville. 26th/29th (3)

just three teams are off by two, so 20 of 30 teams are either right on, or off by just one.

the correlation between PPO and PP time is .9814.

therefore, I am still comfortable using PPO as a shorthand without worrying about actual PP time.

Timmer44 10-02-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 54724005)
A more important question is, does this matter?

are there major discrepancies by the time the season is over between the rankings of teams by PP "opportunities" and by "actual PP time"? My assumption has always been that the official and well-known PPO stat is a very reasonable proxy for PP time. let's see:
<snip>
therefore, I am still comfortable using PPO as a shorthand without worrying about actual PP time.

Great post, thanks.

leeaf83 10-02-2012 06:12 PM

Can somebody clear up something I've been wondering;

how are major penalties tabulated in official stats?
I've heard some people say that a 5 minute PP is tallied as 1 PP, I've also heard it's tallied as 1 more PP than goals scored during it.

So if a team gets one powerplay in a game-a 5 minute major and scores 3 goals on it, what would their powerplay stats be for the game? 3 for 1 or 3 for 4?

Chalupa Batman 10-02-2012 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeaf83 (Post 54726477)
I've also heard it's tallied as 1 more PP than goals scored during it.

This one.

Iain Fyffe 10-02-2012 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur (Post 54726553)
This one.

I wonder if you score a goal in the last second of a major do they still add another PP to your total?

Not that this would ever happen often enough to make any kind of difference.

Hammer Time 10-02-2012 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeaf83 (Post 54726477)
Can somebody clear up something I've been wondering;

how are major penalties tabulated in official stats?
I've heard some people say that a 5 minute PP is tallied as 1 PP, I've also heard it's tallied as 1 more PP than goals scored during it.

So if a team gets one powerplay in a game-a 5 minute major and scores 3 goals on it, what would their powerplay stats be for the game? 3 for 1 or 3 for 4?

Every time a goal is scored, a new PP opportunity is deemed to have begun. So if a team scores 3 PPGs on a major they would be deemed to have 4 opportunities. Also, if the team on the PP takes a two minute minor, making it four-on-four, the team is credited with another PPO when their penalized player is back on the ice.

From the Vancouver/Boston game I mentioned earlier in the thread:

Bruins penalties
3:54 Thornton, Lucic - Kesler scored 5-on-3, Bruins killed the remaining 5-on-4 time
16:26 Peverley - killed
18:45 Pouliot - killed
34:47 Seguin - Burrows PPG
36:43 Krejci - killed
38:47 Marchand major - H. Sedin and Hodgson scored PPGs. D. Sedin served a two-minute minor during this time and stepped back on the ice with Marchand still serving his major.
53:22 Horton - killed

Vancouver was credited with 11 power play opportunities for the game:
- 7 minor penalties taken by the Bruins
- 4 opportunities for the five minute major:
a) one opportunity for the first minute until Henrik's goal
b) one opportunity for the time between Henrik and Hodgson's goals
c) one opportunity for the time between Hodgson's goal and Daniel's penalty
d) one opportunity for the 16 seconds of power play time the Canucks had after Daniel finished serving his penalty

Canadiens1958 10-02-2012 11:08 PM

Pre 1956-57 Season
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Meteor (Post 54732061)
Every time a goal is scored, a new PP opportunity is deemed to have begun. So if a team scores 3 PPGs on a major they would be deemed to have 4 opportunities. Also, if the team on the PP takes a two minute minor, making it four-on-four, the team is credited with another PPO when their penalized player is back on the ice.

From the Vancouver/Boston game I mentioned earlier in the thread:

Bruins penalties
3:54 Thornton, Lucic - Kesler scored 5-on-3, Bruins killed the remaining 5-on-4 time
16:26 Peverley - killed
18:45 Pouliot - killed
34:47 Seguin - Burrows PPG
36:43 Krejci - killed
38:47 Marchand major - H. Sedin and Hodgson scored PPGs. D. Sedin served a two-minute minor during this time and stepped back on the ice with Marchand still serving his major.
53:22 Horton - killed

Vancouver was credited with 11 power play opportunities for the game:
- 7 minor penalties taken by the Bruins
- 4 opportunities for the five minute major:
a) one opportunity for the first minute until Henrik's goal
b) one opportunity for the time between Henrik and Hodgson's goals
c) one opportunity for the time between Hodgson's goal and Daniel's penalty
d) one opportunity for the 16 seconds of power play time the Canucks had after Daniel finished serving his penalty

Pre 1956-57 complete two minute minors had to be served regardless of the number of goals scored against the penalized team.

No official PP stats were kept but in media reports teams would be described as scoring multiple goals during 1 PP.

Do the same procedures apply to defining SH goals and opportunities? It is possible for a penalized team to score multiple SH goals in two minutes. A SH goal also splits the PP opportunity into two segments.

seventieslord 10-03-2012 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur (Post 54726553)
This one.

wow! I did not know this.

green lantern 10-03-2012 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 (Post 54732791)
P

Do the same procedures apply to defining SH goals and opportunities? It is possible for a penalized team to score multiple SH goals in two minutes. A SH goal also splits the PP opportunity into two segments.

No because it's the same as any other powerplay with a stoppage in play not changing the manpower advantage.

Now assume the following scenario;
Team A minor penalty @ 3:00
Team B minor penalty @ 3:30
Team A minor penalty @ 3:45

Let's assume no goals are scored; team B would be on the PP from 3:00-3:30, then again from 3:45-5:00 (4 on 3) and then again from 5:30-5:45. Would they be charged with 3 powerplays?

EmeticDonut 02-09-2013 09:11 AM

Apologies for the resurrection. But I always found the "goals/PPO" metric to be flawed in measuring how efficient a PP is. There are numerous times where a PP is cut short by the PP team taking a penalty and negating the whole thing, but it still counts as a PPO. Wouldn't a more accurate measure be "time on PP/goals"?


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