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-   -   2012 CBA & Re-alignment: Lockout in Effect. Thanks Gary/Donald! PART II (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1265283)

Homeland Security 09-28-2012 08:52 PM

2012 CBA & Re-alignment: Lockout in Effect. Thanks Gary/Donald! PART II
 
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Previous edition:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1138765

Sh00terMcGavin 09-28-2012 09:20 PM

http://www.penguins-hockey-cards.com..._koltsov_8.jpg
Save us Konstantin.

Konstantin Koltsov 09-29-2012 06:06 AM

I'm doing everything I can. Promise.

Darth Vitale 09-29-2012 10:39 AM

Do you still have Hands of Cement? If so I suggest you resign in favor of someone who can wield a pen more ably. ;)

Gallatin 09-29-2012 11:09 AM

Jiggy - This is from a writer who's in touch with many players. It's really not about money it's about anger. It's a long article that supports my belief we are all doomed. :D

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012...-season/11655/

excerpt:
When people ask me these days if an NHL season will happen, my quick response now is: no.

If you’d asked me this past spring or the main months of the summer, I’d have said “Yes, eventually.” Now? No, I don’t think so. I’d put the odds at 15-85 that a season will happen at all.

This is a sad story with no winners, but the tagline of the story is this: the players in the NHL are sick and tired of Gary Bettman, and they will sacrifice their greater financial good to drive this man out of their game.

That’s how much they hate him.

It really has come to this awful juncture, an irreconcilable difference in the minds of the players that they must defeat Bettman at all costs. I have spent the last couple months or so in regular contact with a wide number of players, and this is what it has come down to – sadly.

Darth Vitale 09-29-2012 03:07 PM

Fehr and Gary had more private discussions today while the two sides met over non-economic issues. I'll take what we can get.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406365

Darth Vitale 09-29-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallatin (Post 54655311)
Jiggy - This is from a writer who's in touch with many players. It's really not about money it's about anger. It's a long article that supports my belief we are all doomed. :D

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012...-season/11655/


You forgot THIS excerpt... which is what I've been saying the entire time. ;)

Quote:

But what got this whole off-season off to such a toxic atmosphere was Bettman’s laughable initial offer to the players.

Mr Jiggyfly 09-29-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallatin (Post 54655311)
Jiggy - This is from a writer who's in touch with many players. It's really not about money it's about anger. It's a long article that supports my belief we are all doomed. :D

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012...-season/11655/

excerpt:
When people ask me these days if an NHL season will happen, my quick response now is: no.

If you’d asked me this past spring or the main months of the summer, I’d have said “Yes, eventually.” Now? No, I don’t think so. I’d put the odds at 15-85 that a season will happen at all.

This is a sad story with no winners, but the tagline of the story is this: the players in the NHL are sick and tired of Gary Bettman, and they will sacrifice their greater financial good to drive this man out of their game.

That’s how much they hate him.

It really has come to this awful juncture, an irreconcilable difference in the minds of the players that they must defeat Bettman at all costs. I have spent the last couple months or so in regular contact with a wide number of players, and this is what it has come down to – sadly.

I touched on the players feelings of animosity back in the Spring when I believe, Jmelm and I argued about if the players would take less than 57%. My side of the argument was that they wouldn't take a cut and if they did it would be no more than a few points at most... It was pretty obvious when they brought Fehr aboard, they wanted to go to war with Bettman.

I really think they can work it out so the players make between 55-57% this season, while shaving off a couple points in the first few years to reach a 50/50 deal by the mid point of the new CBA. The players have hinted they would be agreeable to this, but they seem adamant they aren't taking a reduction this year - that seems to be their biggest point of contention.

The owners on the other hand want immediate reductions... So obviously we have a catch 22 and this idiotic lockout.

Finding some common ground on the players cut of HRR during the first season of the new CBA seems to be the major hurdle, in my mind. If they can agree on that, all of the other dominoes should fall into place.

They just have to stop playing this game of chicken... It's childish.

SkullSplitter 09-29-2012 04:39 PM

I don't know if the players make too much money or not, but I find it pretty disgusting that the league is asking them to carry the weight of their problems.

The league needs better revenue sharing & to put their teams in markets where the can succeed. Maybe the players do make a bit too much and can take a rollback too, although when you look at the effects of long term brain trauma that contact sports gives athletes, consider that most forgo or leave college early, and that their careers are pretty short, I'd say that the minimum salary players don't make enough.

Ogrezilla 09-29-2012 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkullSplitter (Post 54661021)
I don't know if the players make too much money or not, but I find it pretty disgusting that the league is asking them to carry the weight of their problems.

The league needs better revenue sharing & to put their teams in markets where the can succeed. Maybe the players do make a bit too much and can take a rollback too, although when you look at the effects of long term brain trauma that contact sports gives athletes, consider that most forgo or leave college early, and that their careers are pretty short, I'd say that the minimum salary players don't make enough.

the minimum NHL salary is over half a million dollars a year. The league average is 2 million. They get paid plenty.

KaylaJ 09-29-2012 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallatin (Post 54655311)

This is a sad story with no winners, but the tagline of the story is this: the players in the NHL are sick and tired of Gary Bettman, and they will sacrifice their greater financial good to drive this man out of their game.

Well, that's good to know because that's what is going to happen along with the greater good of the NHL if they don't get their heads out of Candy Land. Seriously, Bettman is there for the owners and if he leaves they'll just bring in someone else the players won't like. Also I don't think fans won't be coming back in droves like last time.

SidTheKid8787 09-30-2012 05:40 AM

Yea, the news coming out of NY ain't good. It's gonna take several players losing significant money for them to start loosening up their belief in keeping over 50% of HRR.

Theres a bit on Adams being not so confident after Saturday's meetings. http://sulia.com/channel/hockey/f/d3...-b3664d500950/

This was a different piece on the matter where they talk about the players being ticked off at the league for propping up Phoenix:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...tes_hrr_nhlpa/ (nevermind the video or just watch it then make sure to read the article underneath)

So if you are fiending for some hockey, Pens style. Get your KHL on and prepare to watch the WBS season in its entirety without any players moving up to the bigs this year.

I'm wondering where Sid ends up playing. Shall be an interesting and crappy year seeing another year erased from his prime in the big show.

Darth Vitale 09-30-2012 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 (Post 54668699)
Yea, the news coming out of NY ain't good. It's gonna take several players losing significant money for them to start loosening up their belief in keeping over 50% of HRR.

Theres a bit on Adams being not so confident after Saturday's meetings. http://sulia.com/channel/hockey/f/d3...-b3664d500950/

Losing respect for Yohe by the week here. He succeeded in making a dramatic point but there's nothing new going on there to warrant it. Stupid. Typical Pittsburgh reporting.

I agree it doesn't look good right now but nothing has happened this weekend to warrant any drama.

SkullSplitter 09-30-2012 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogrezilla (Post 54661611)
the minimum NHL salary is over half a million dollars a year. The league average is 2 million. They get paid plenty.

For you and me that sounds great, but think about the guys at the bottom end. . .

Yeah it's 500k a year but how long is that gonna last after you retire with no college education? Sure some guys are gonna get other hockey related jobs but not everyone.

Is it worth it to get paid that to and be an enforcer or grinder and take 100-200 punches in the head a year that slowly turn your brain into swiss cheese?

What about the constant dedication to your fitness & adherence to a strict diet?

NHL'rs have to deal with repeated broken bones, fractures, muscle tears, concussions, etc & many players have to have a major surgery at some point in their career.

I'm a pretty populist person & as such I have a strong distrust of the rich, but if we were to base pay on job description, the only people who should be making more would be nfl players and GIs.

Darth Vitale 09-30-2012 01:10 PM

If you make anywhere close to $2M a year for 8-10 years, and you have any common sense at all about saving, investment and budgeting, you will most likely be set for life unless you have 6 kids or something. Will you be set for life owning a gigantic house and sports cars and boats and lavish country club memberships? No. But you could be very, very comfortable if you handle your b'ness properly.

I have no sympathy for the players on the money they make, only on what's a fair cut and why they're being asked to constantly pay for the owners' crappy management of certain teams and league expansion mistakes every time there's a new CBA. The owners should be taking those avoidable expenses out of their own pockets not the players.

50/50, smarter contract terms that can't circumvent the cap and allow for the Liarpold / Big Lou effect, more narrow definition of revenue to give the owners their extra win. Get it done, *******s.

TheEdge27 09-30-2012 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale (Post 54671297)
Losing respect for Yohe by the week here. He succeeded in making a dramatic point but there's nothing new going on there to warrant it. Stupid. Typical Pittsburgh reporting.

I agree it doesn't look good right now but nothing has happened this weekend to warrant any drama.

In all fairness to him, hes still trying to do his job. What does a hockey beat writer cover when there is no hockey?

Chances are he makes money each tweet/article he does, and hes also keeping the masses who want an update every 10 minutes off his back. I kinda feel bad for him to be honest. Hes a in a tight spot.

Darth Vitale 09-30-2012 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEdge27 (Post 54674587)
In all fairness to him, hes still trying to do his job. What does a hockey beat writer cover when there is no hockey?

Chances are he makes money each tweet/article he does, and hes also keeping the masses who want an update every 10 minutes off his back. I kinda feel bad for him to be honest. Hes a in a tight spot.

I doubt very much he or any of the regular reporters are in a paid-by-the-story-or-tweet arrangement. They're salaried employees of Trib Media, not freelancers. They're also in no danger of losing their job most likely. They'll probably just be moved to report on other happenings when there's no CBA or Penguin news.

SidTheKid8787 09-30-2012 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale (Post 54673669)
If you make anywhere close to $2M a year for 8-10 years, and you have any common sense at all about saving, investment and budgeting, you will most likely be set for life unless you have 6 kids or something. Will you be set for life owning a gigantic house and sports cars and boats and lavish country club memberships? No. But you could be very, very comfortable if you handle your b'ness properly.

I have no sympathy for the players on the money they make, only on what's a fair cut and why they're being asked to constantly pay for the owners' crappy management of certain teams and league expansion mistakes every time there's a new CBA. The owners should be taking those avoidable expenses out of their own pockets not the players.

50/50, smarter contract terms that can't circumvent the cap and allow for the Liarpold / Big Lou effect, more narrow definition of revenue to give the owners their extra win. Get it done, *******s.

I agree with this. The problem is how long before the players give in. I go back to that article where Modano and others said how much money they lost during thier lockouts and how it was a mistake to try and battle the owners. The owners WILL win so stop trying to fight it.

At some point the PA will fracture where the non-millionaires(the ones with large families, wives/gf who spend all thier cash, or live an over lavish lifestyle) will be saying "look, i need cash money now for my family to survive. get this done now"

End of Line 09-30-2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkullSplitter (Post 54673427)
For you and me that sounds great, but think about the guys at the bottom end. . .

Yeah it's 500k a year but how long is that gonna last after you retire with no college education? Sure some guys are gonna get other hockey related jobs but not everyone.

It's called saving and living within your means.

OnMyOwn 09-30-2012 03:30 PM

This league is a bush league ****ing joke. There's zero reason to have lockouts everytime the cba is up....zero

Ogrezilla 09-30-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkullSplitter (Post 54673427)
For you and me that sounds great, but think about the guys at the bottom end. . .

Yeah it's 500k a year but how long is that gonna last after you retire with no college education? Sure some guys are gonna get other hockey related jobs but not everyone.

Is it worth it to get paid that to and be an enforcer or grinder and take 100-200 punches in the head a year that slowly turn your brain into swiss cheese?

What about the constant dedication to your fitness & adherence to a strict diet?

NHL'rs have to deal with repeated broken bones, fractures, muscle tears, concussions, etc & many players have to have a major surgery at some point in their career.

I'm a pretty populist person & as such I have a strong distrust of the rich, but if we were to base pay on job description, the only people who should be making more would be nfl players and GIs.

say they work three seasons at minimum nhl wage. They made 1.5 million dollars. That's in the ballpark of what I can expect to make over the course of my entire career as a teacher. They can then use that to go to college or start a business or really do whatever they want. I'm not saying they should get less, but they damn sure shouldn't expect anyone to feel bad for them.

Mr Jiggyfly 09-30-2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogrezilla (Post 54678925)
say they work three seasons at minimum nhl wage. They made 1.5 million dollars. That's in the ballpark of what I can expect to make over the course of my entire career as a teacher.

You should buy some swag at Wal-Mart and start breaking bad...

Ogrezilla 09-30-2012 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly (Post 54679107)
You should buy some swag at Wal-Mart and start breaking bad...

shhhh be cool man

Mr Jiggyfly 09-30-2012 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogrezilla (Post 54679231)
shhhh be cool man

http://memecrunch.com/meme/QHT/break...imon/image.png

Ogrezilla 09-30-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly (Post 54680021)

i love applesauce.


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