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-   -   Why is Girgensons playing wing? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1268345)

HogtownSabresfan 10-06-2012 09:38 AM

Why is Girgensons playing wing?
 
http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs...03/sabre-space

I don't care about winning at the AHL, I want this kid practicing to be a centre and that's it. This is our weakness and his strength.
I really think the problem with Buffalo is how it develops its own players and I put this on Ruff. Through pure circumstance, he put Ennis at centre -- even tried to move him back to wing after some success down the middle.
I'd like to know who is behind the logic for some of these moves like thinking Leino can play down the middle. Ott will be he next guy they mess with, I predict.

Zman5778 10-06-2012 10:05 AM

Girgensons answered your question himself:

Quote:

“I’ve played my whole life at center, but I think it’s easier to start with the wing in pro because you don’t have to do as much in the D-zone,” he said. “You just have to read the play. It’s a little bit easier adjustment for me playing the wing.”

In a year or two, he'll likely shift back to C. And if not, we've still got Grigorenko, Hodgson and Ennis.

HogtownSabresfan 10-06-2012 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman5778 (Post 54803647)
Girgensons answered your question himself:




In a year or two, he'll likely shift back to C. And if not, we've still got Grigorenko, Hodgson and Ennis.

That's the point, train him for the tougher position unless you feel he can't handle it. If you can't play centre in AHL, you can't it in the NHL for sure.

sabrefan27 10-06-2012 10:12 AM

Well for starters, there's 4 centers who are better right now, older and more experienced.

Zman5778 10-06-2012 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan (Post 54803735)
That's the point, train him for the tougher position unless you feel he can't handle it. If you can play centre in AHL, you can't it in the NHL for sure.

It's not terribly uncommon for a 18 year old to play wing before transitioning to center.

New Sabres Captain 10-06-2012 10:28 AM

Tyler Seguin played wing his rookie season before moving to center. He turned out OK.

It's a big jump in competition, nothing wrong with easing the transition before moving him to center. Especially for a guy who has played wing in the USHL at times and has a skillset that would allow him to play either wing or center pretty much just as well.

ZZamboni 10-06-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman5778 (Post 54803647)
In a year or two, he'll likely shift back to C. And if not, we've still got Grigorenko, Hodgson and Ennis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabrefan27 (Post 54803737)
Well for starters, there's 4 centers who are better right now, older and more experienced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zman5778 (Post 54803841)
It's not terribly uncommon for a 18 year old to play wing before transitioning to center.

These are all good responses. I hope the OP let's it sink in. No need to be selfish and only accept what YOU want. There are usually good solid reasons why prospects are being developed the way they are.

WhoIsJimBob 10-06-2012 10:37 AM

This is another reason why I wasn't 100% sold on him playing in the AHL this season.

I'd rather seeing him playing C in the NC$$ or the CHL than wing in the AHL.

1972 10-06-2012 11:05 AM

Most young players start of as wingers before moving to center, Claude Giroux, Tyler Seguin, and Jamie Benn are all examples. Mind you Benn has mostly been a winger in Junior and Seguin is still playing wing but is a center and will he soon enough.

New Sabres Captain 10-06-2012 11:22 AM

I bet once (if) the lockout is over, he'll move to center as Hodgson is called back up.

Rob Paxon 10-06-2012 11:34 AM

It's simply the best place for him and the team right now. Jumping from the USHL to the AHL at his age is a pretty huge jump in both physicality and talent, especially in this particular AHL season. Playing wing makes the transition easier and it's also better for the team for the time being. He'll get his chance to move back at center but also his future may well be at wing if you look at the Sabres roster.

jfb392 10-06-2012 11:36 AM

Hopefully he gets cut soon so we don't have this issue.

HogtownSabresfan 10-06-2012 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 54804015)
These are all good responses. I hope the OP let's it sink in. No need to be selfish and only accept what YOU want. There are usually good solid reasons why prospects are being developed the way they are.

I want a strong centre down the middle, that's all. Don't see that developing anywhere else on this team. Cody could be great but he's more finesse for sure. And Ennis is 5.9. Ott/Leino are not centres. Forget this year, three years from now tell what they have that can be powerful down the middle? Grigorenko. Maybe? Centres are so much more valuable than wingers. Sabres love to screw around with players. This team never does enough with its talent.
It's nice you have so much faith in the way Sabres develop prospects. I don't. Myers is withering, Vanek should be so much better, Stafford (don't need to say anything), Etc. I think Regier drafts/trades well and the coaching system doesn't get enough out of guys.

Rob Paxon 10-06-2012 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan (Post 54805535)
I want a strong centre down the middle, that's all. Don't see that developing anywhere else on this team. Cody could be great but he's more finesse for sure. And Ennis is 5.9. Ott/Leino are not centres. Forget this year, three years from now tell what they have that can be powerful down the middle? Grigorenko. Maybe? Centres are so much more valuable than wingers. Sabres love to screw around with players. This team never does enough with its talent.
It's nice you have so much faith in the way Sabres develop prospects. I don't. Myers is withering, Vanek should be so much better, Stafford (don't need to say anything), Etc. I think Regier drafts/trades well and the coaching system doesn't get enough out of guys.

I feel you but I do think it's too early to say for sure that Girgensons isn't the guy to move to wing out of all their centers. He has already shown he's equally effective at both positions. You could always make him a center defensively and winger offensively if paired with a guy like Ennis.

But the important thing here is that this current business has nothing to do with whether or not he'll be a center down the line. It is very common for centers to start out in the pros at wing, especially in these overloaded roster circumstances. He and the team are both being put in a position to succeed right now and if you want him to get good minutes (which is obviously more important), playing him at wing is the most likely way of achieving that as there are already good centers to take the big minutes and the minutes are easier to handle with limited responsibilities.

ZZamboni 10-06-2012 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan (Post 54805535)
I want a strong centre down the middle, that's all. Don't see that developing anywhere else on this team. Cody could be great but he's more finesse for sure. And Ennis is 5.9. Ott/Leino are not centres. Forget this year, three years from now tell what they have that can be powerful down the middle? Grigorenko. Maybe? Centres are so much more valuable than wingers. Sabres love to screw around with players. This team never does enough with its talent.
It's nice you have so much faith in the way Sabres develop prospects. I don't. Myers is withering, Vanek should be so much better, Stafford (don't need to say anything), Etc. I think Regier drafts/trades well and the coaching system doesn't get enough out of guys.

Boy, maybe I'm reading this wrong. Maybe someone else can correct me here. It sooo sounds like all the blame for underproduction or stunted development is 100% on the coaching staff and 0% on the player themselves.


Interesting.....





To be "the best" a player can be in an NHL environment, I view it as a 75% player responsibility, 25% coaching staff.

:dunno:

jfb392 10-06-2012 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 54807085)
Boy, maybe I'm reading this wrong. Maybe someone else can correct me here. It sooo sounds like all the blame for underproduction or stunted development is 100% on the coaching staff and 0% on the player themselves.


Interesting.....





To be "the best" a player can be in an NHL environment, I view it as a 75% player responsibility, 25% coaching staff.

:dunno:

Well, the player can't do much about management putting them in a league where they're buried on the depth chart and can't play their natural position..

Sounds like OP is arguing the same thing I was a few months ago.
Is the benefit of playing against older players in the AHL while having less responsibilities and playing out of position better for his development?
No, probably not IMO.
They may be older and stronger, but skill development is the biggest thing with him and it's not really going to be happening there.

tsujimoto74 10-06-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan (Post 54803735)
That's the point, train him for the tougher position unless you feel he can't handle it. If you can't play centre in AHL, you can't it in the NHL for sure.

Yeah... Uh, it's kind of a huge jump in level of competition from USHL to the AHL. Girgensons won't be hurt by being given the opportunity to learn the pro game at an easier position first. Once he gets that, then move him to center. It's not going to help him to throw him in over his head and wreck his confidence by asking him to do something he's not ready for (see: Adam, Luke centering a top NHL line), which is something putting him at center now could definitely do.

Superhero 10-06-2012 01:29 PM

With Girginsons at center he could make a Selke trophy candidate someday. He is like a Ryan Kesler type of player.

Since Grigorenko, Ennis, and Hodson are the Sabres top 3 centers, I think the Sabres want to use him at wing. I'm guessing that The Sabres will want to use his grit and defensive abilities to pair up with the offensively skilled Grigorenko and Armia. They may also want him on a line with Grigorenko because Grigorenko is Russian and Gerginsons is Latvian (basically Russian) for chemistry purposes.

You can also say that Ruff generally doesn't know what the best position for players are and that's why he does so much line juggling.

BalticWarrior 10-06-2012 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhero (Post 54807329)
With Girginsons at center he could make a Selke trophy candidate someday. He is like a Ryan Kesler type of player.

Since Grigorenko, Ennis, and Hodson are the Sabres top 3 centers, I think the Sabres want to use him at wing. I'm guessing that The Sabres will want to use his grit and defensive abilities to pair up with the offensively skilled Grigorenko and Armia. They may also want him on a line with Grigorenko because Grigorenko is Russian and Gerginsons is Latvian (basically Russian) for chemistry purposes.

You can also say that Ruff generally doesn't know what the best position for players are and that's why he does so much line juggling.

What.the.**** we are not Russian,not even ****ing close. dont compare latvians to russians.never.

jfb392 10-06-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhero (Post 54807329)
With Girginsons at center he could make a Selke trophy candidate someday. He is like a Ryan Kesler type of player.

Since Grigorenko, Ennis, and Hodson are the Sabres top 3 centers, I think the Sabres want to use him at wing. I'm guessing that The Sabres will want to use his grit and defensive abilities to pair up with the offensively skilled Grigorenko and Armia. They may also want him on a line with Grigorenko because Grigorenko is Russian and Gerginsons is Latvian (basically Russian) for chemistry purposes.

You can also say that Ruff generally doesn't know what the best position for players are and that's why he does so much line juggling.

Latvia and Russia aren't really that similar, so I don't know if there'd be any type of chemistry.
They're very different cultures and they speak different languages.

I proposed putting Foligno and Armia with a skilled center before the draft (I proposed Jankowski because I didn't think we'd ever get Grigorenko) and I still think it could work.
Foligno isn't the most skilled guy but he's really developed over the past two seasons and he has a great work ethic and would mesh well with finesse players.
I think him of him as a Scott Hartnell type; he has enough skill to keep up with the top-end guys and will dig for pucks, create space, and go to the net.
Makes a lot more sense than converting a player that's the type of center we've lacked for some time into a winger..

What I've always said about moving Girgensons to wing is that it's voluntarily devaluing him.
Develop him as a center with the intention of him being a center and that's it.
If he needs some time at wing in the NHL, that's fine, but playing wing at a lower level than that doesn't sit well with me.
I think he can be a fine center in the NHL and just like Kesler, he needs to be surrounded with playmakers, which is why I proposed moving Ennis back to wing and sticking him with Girgensons.
His shot is better than his playmaking skills, but I don't think the gap is extreme as Kesler who is extremely selfish for a center.
He played with a kid that's extremely similar to Ennis named Johnny Gaudreau during his rookie season in Dubuque and they were great together.

Rob Paxon 10-06-2012 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 54808169)
What.the.**** we are not Russian,not even ****ing close. dont compare latvians to russians.never.

:laugh: Everyone in American and Britain seem to think of all former Soviet states and even satellite states as being 'Russian'. I hope people realize that the Soviet Union took over Latvia and the rest of the Eastern Bloc by force at the tail end of WW2 and for the most part the citizens of those countries were rabidly against it and brutally purged.


I wonder though, do you think Zemgus speaks Russian? Is it common for younger generations to still learn it? I feel like I talked about this with you before but I don't remember.

Dubi Doo 10-06-2012 03:58 PM

This is a common treatment for a young prospect. The reasons are listed above by Grigs himself. (Z man's post)

I wouldn't mind him as a winger, either. Time will tell if his success transfers to the pros.

jfb392 10-06-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Paxon (Post 54809643)
:laugh: Everyone in American and Britain seem to think of all former Soviet states and even satellite states as being 'Russian'. I hope people realize that the Soviet Union took over Latvia and the rest of the Eastern Bloc by force at the tail end of WW2 and for the most part the citizens of those countries were rabidly against it and brutally purged.


I wonder though, do you think Zemgus speaks Russian? Is it common for younger generations to still learn it? I feel like I talked about this with you before but I don't remember.

I think I remember him saying that he didn't after being drafted, but I could be wrong.

Might have been when he was with Grigorenko and Alyonka Larionov.

brian_griffin 10-06-2012 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 54808169)
What.the.**** we are not Russian,not even ****ing close. dont compare latvians to russians.never.

:laugh:
For a Latvian, your English language is excellent!!!

I hope to someday visit Latvia, Estonia, Finland, Sweden, Norway.

mgeise 10-06-2012 06:00 PM

I'd like to see him playing center as well, but with the group of centers that Rochester has I'm not surprised by this move at all. If and when the lockout ends this year and Hodgson comes up, I hope that Girgensons would make the transition at that point. It's even possible that Porter be up in the NHL (it will be Tropp, Scott, Ellis, Adam, Porter, and Mancari fighting for 2-3 spots depending on how many defensemen they keep).

I wouldn't be concerned about Girgensons not playing center just yet. He's an 18 year old playing in the AHL.


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