HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Proposal: Tor-phi (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1269265)

Vankiller Whale 10-09-2012 11:49 AM

Tor-phi
 
I'm going to say right now there is no way this trade would happen, because I am essentially taking back a previous trade and replacing it with one that makes more sense(to me, at least).

To Toronto: Brayden Schenn, Luke Schenn

To Philadelphia: Jake Gardiner, JVR

Toronto's winger depth is not bad, but their centre depth is bad enough that they want to put JVR there. Brayden Schenn would be a much better fit as their potential #1 C. Additionally, it makes more sense for Luke Schenn to be in Carlye's defensive system than in Philadelphia's, where his lack of foot speed will hamper his effectiveness.

Philadelphia trades a centre for a winger, thereby allowing Couturier to step up in the 2C role where he'll have more opportunities to show his offensive skill. They also trade a slower, defensive dman for an excellent young offensive dman much better suited to Philly's system.

And again, I know it will never happen, but I think if they had simply traded Brayden Schenn for Jake Gardiner in the first place, both teams would be better off.

NickRash61 10-09-2012 11:53 AM

Sooo Jake Gardiner for Brayden Schenn?

Don't think either fan base goes for this

Sergei Berezin 10-09-2012 12:03 PM

I think the Brayden Schenn phase in Toronto ended with the Luke Schenn era.

Not to put down Brayden in any way, but he hasn't proven nearly enough for the Leafs to give up Jake Gardiner for him. In truth, I don't think a single Leaf fan would touch this deal. In fact, Gardiner has outscored Schenn in their short NHL careers to date.

Gardiner is probably top-5 most valuable player on the Leafs currently with Kessel, Phaneuf, and Reilly. He's not going to be traded unless something significant is coming back. While that may not seem fair to most teams, it's the situation the Toronto Maple Leafs are in. We don't have the luxury of trading assets like Jake unless we're getting a surefire #1 C back.

SeanVT395 10-09-2012 12:06 PM

I wouldn't mind this as a Flyers fan :laugh:

re5piration 10-09-2012 12:08 PM

Value wise, it's probably fair, but it just doesn't make sense for either team. I'm sure both teams are happy with their respective players.

BonMorrison 10-09-2012 12:09 PM

Is this the same Brayden Schenn that has scored at pretty much the same rate as super-bust Nazem Kadri?

Jokes aside, value might've been there before Gardiner played a full season but as of right now, Gardiner's value is much higher. Not saying, I wouldn't consider it though because I really like Schenn.

Krishna 10-09-2012 12:14 PM

Hm..

When the Gardiner to PHI threads were made before, leafs fans wanted Couturier + or Schenn++... I guess you guys are settling for just Schenn then?

Vankiller Whale 10-09-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonMorrison (Post 54867351)
Is this the same Brayden Schenn that has scored at pretty much the same rate as super-bust Nazem Kadri?

Jokes aside, value might've been there before Gardiner played a full season but as of right now, Gardiner's value is much higher. Not saying, I wouldn't consider it though because I really like Schenn.

To be fair Brayden had been absolutely tearing it up in the minors, moreso than Kadri. At one point he was considered the best prospect in the league.

416Leafer 10-09-2012 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulie (Post 54867325)
Value wise, it's probably fair, but it just doesn't make sense for either team. I'm sure both teams are happy with their respective players.

... If it makes sense value wise... and Toronto is looking for a Centre... and Philly is looking for D... than how does it not make sense?

I'm not saying it is fair value-wise, I just don't see how IF you do think that, that you could actually think it doesnt make sense for both teams? Since it literally addresses exactly what each team needs while drawing from a relative team strength (Giroux/Briere/Couturier/Read make Schenn slightly expendable while Phaneuf/Liles/Rielly/Finn/Percy make Gardiner slightly expendable)

internetdotcom 10-09-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergei Berezin (Post 54867217)
I think the Brayden Schenn phase in Toronto ended with the Luke Schenn era.

Not to put down Brayden in any way, but he hasn't proven nearly enough for the Leafs to give up Jake Gardiner for him. In truth, I don't think a single Leaf fan would touch this deal. In fact, Gardiner has outscored Schenn in their short NHL careers to date.

Gardiner is probably top-5 most valuable player on the Leafs currently with Kessel, Phaneuf, and Reilly. He's not going to be traded unless something significant is coming back. While that may not seem fair to most teams, it's the situation the Toronto Maple Leafs are in. We don't have the luxury of trading assets like Jake unless we're getting a surefire #1 C back.

Gardiner, as much as Leaf fans drool over him (and I do like him) hasn't been in the NHL long enough to say anything about what kind of career he will have. Give him at least a couple more seasons before anointing him as Karlsson/Doughty/etc-lite.

And Reilly is in your top 5 most valuable Leafs? He is a very nice prospect, but the kid hasn't even played a shift yet. It would be fair to call him your most valuable prospect, but let the kid play a shift or two before anointing him part of any core. He could be the next (Dman version) of Alexandre Daigle, or he could be the next Orr, you don't know yet. Calling him one of the most valuable Leafs is like Sens fans calling Silfverberg one of the most valuable Sens (even though Silf has played (briefly) in the NHL). They are still just prospects. Very, very good ones, but prospects nonetheless.

Krishna 10-09-2012 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 416Leafer (Post 54867547)
... If it makes sense value wise... and Toronto is looking for a Centre... and Philly is looking for D... than how does it not make sense?

I'm not saying it is fair value-wise, I just don't see how IF you do think that, that you could actually think it doesnt make sense for both teams? Since it literally addresses exactly what each team needs while drawing from a relative team strength (Giroux/Briere/Couturier/Read make Schenn slightly expendable while Phaneuf/Liles/Rielly/Finn/Percy make Gardiner slightly expendable)

The part that doesn't make sense is pretty much undoing the JVR and Schenn trade from the summer before either player has stepped on the ice for their team.

Sergei Berezin 10-09-2012 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by internetdotcom (Post 54867579)
Gardiner, as much as Leaf fans drool over him (and I do like him) hasn't been in the NHL long enough to say anything about what kind of career he will have. Give him at least a couple more seasons before anointing him as Karlsson/Doughty/etc-lite.

And Reilly is in your top 5 most valuable Leafs? He is a very nice prospect, but the kid hasn't even played a shift yet. It would be fair to call him your most valuable prospect, but let the kid play a shift or two before anointing him part of any core. He could be the next (Dman version) of Alexandre Daigle, or he could be the next Orr, you don't know yet. Calling him one of the most valuable Leafs is like Sens fans calling Silfverberg one of the most valuable Sens (even though Silf has played (briefly) in the NHL). They are still just prospects. Very, very good ones, but prospects nonetheless.

1st - I never anointed him as anything. Just pointing out that his first full season in the NHL was much better than Schenns. That may be because there are different expectations and roles for the two, but the fact remains that Gardiner was better.

2nd - The fact that he's top-5 most valuable is with consideration to trade value. He has enough potential that he's top-5 in trade value for the Leafs.

Sergei Berezin 10-09-2012 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 54867589)
The part that doesn't make sense is pretty much undoing the JVR and Schenn trade from the summer before either player has stepped on the ice for their team.

That and the fact that one of your only rookies who has exceeded expectations in the last decade is suddenly expendable?

Naw.

birddog* 10-09-2012 12:27 PM

Luke Schenn and JVR both disappointed last year. Neither club is looking for a return. Both need a fresh start.

Vankiller Whale 10-09-2012 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 54867589)
The part that doesn't make sense is pretty much undoing the JVR and Schenn trade from the summer before either player has stepped on the ice for their team.

Fair enough, although I still feel that was the wrong trade to have made. B. Schenn for Gardiner makes a whole lot more sense, judging on position and play style.

The Podium 10-09-2012 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by internetdotcom (Post 54867579)
Gardiner, as much as Leaf fans drool over him (and I do like him) hasn't been in the NHL long enough to say anything about what kind of career he will have. Give him at least a couple more seasons before anointing him as Karlsson/Doughty/etc-lite.

And Reilly is in your top 5 most valuable Leafs? He is a very nice prospect, but the kid hasn't even played a shift yet. It would be fair to call him your most valuable prospect, but let the kid play a shift or two before anointing him part of any core. He could be the next (Dman version) of Alexandre Daigle, or he could be the next Orr, you don't know yet. Calling him one of the most valuable Leafs is like Sens fans calling Silfverberg one of the most valuable Sens (even though Silf has played (briefly) in the NHL). They are still just prospects. Very, very good ones, but prospects nonetheless.

:huh: Rielly has the value of a top 5 pick, and currently only Kessel is worth more than that... Its not too much of a stretch to call him one of the top 5 most valueable players on the leafs.

FishManSam 10-09-2012 12:58 PM

So Toronto gives up the two most valuable pieces?

TheSilencer 10-09-2012 01:08 PM

0 interest in bringing Luke Schenn back.

Krishna 10-09-2012 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishManSam (Post 54868351)
So Toronto gives up the two most valuable pieces?

Brayden Schenn is more valuable than JVR

FishManSam 10-09-2012 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 54868783)
Brayden Schenn is more valuable than JVR

It's debatable.

Chandrashekhar Limit 10-09-2012 01:26 PM

I wouldn't do it from a Toronto POV.

rockinghockey 10-09-2012 01:38 PM

This deal does not make sense at all. Sending JVR back to TO and Schenn back to PHI is just crazy talk, talk about messing with their heads.

Jets 10-09-2012 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockinghockey (Post 54869119)
This deal does not make sense at all. Sending JVR back to TO and Schenn back to PHI is just crazy talk, talk about messing with their heads.

wait a second...

Zippy316 10-09-2012 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 54866991)
I'm going to say right now there is no way this trade would happen, because I am essentially taking back a previous trade and replacing it with one that makes more sense(to me, at least).

To Toronto: Brayden Schenn, Luke Schenn

To Philadelphia: Jake Gardiner, JVR

Toronto's winger depth is not bad, but their centre depth is bad enough that they want to put JVR there. Brayden Schenn would be a much better fit as their potential #1 C. Additionally, it makes more sense for Luke Schenn to be in Carlye's defensive system than in Philadelphia's, where his lack of foot speed will hamper his effectiveness.

Philadelphia trades a centre for a winger, thereby allowing Couturier to step up in the 2C role where he'll have more opportunities to show his offensive skill. They also trade a slower, defensive dman for an excellent young offensive dman much better suited to Philly's system.

And again, I know it will never happen, but I think if they had simply traded Brayden Schenn for Jake Gardiner in the first place, both teams would be better off.

Pretty good reasoning, but yeah, there's no chance of that happening, even though the value is very close.

seanlinden 10-09-2012 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 54866991)
I'm going to say right now there is no way this trade would happen, because I am essentially taking back a previous trade and replacing it with one that makes more sense(to me, at least).

To Toronto: Brayden Schenn, Luke Schenn

To Philadelphia: Jake Gardiner, JVR

Toronto's winger depth is not bad, but their centre depth is bad enough that they want to put JVR there. Brayden Schenn would be a much better fit as their potential #1 C. Additionally, it makes more sense for Luke Schenn to be in Carlye's defensive system than in Philadelphia's, where his lack of foot speed will hamper his effectiveness.

Philadelphia trades a centre for a winger, thereby allowing Couturier to step up in the 2C role where he'll have more opportunities to show his offensive skill. They also trade a slower, defensive dman for an excellent young offensive dman much better suited to Philly's system.

And again, I know it will never happen, but I think if they had simply traded Brayden Schenn for Jake Gardiner in the first place, both teams would be better off.

Here's the thing.... Brayden Schenn isn't a first line centre no matter how you slice it...

JvR is a big winger with 1st line potential who addresses a need for us immediately.

Furthermore, JvR and L. Schenn were the guys in need of a change of scenery.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.