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-   -   ESPN Insider Top 25 under 25 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1269533)

RangerBoy 10-10-2012 08:05 AM

ESPN Insider Top 25 under 25
 
ESPN Insider put together a top 25 under 25 list

Toews
Stamkos
Couture
Staal
Tavares
Kane
Hall
Doughty
Karlsson
Marchand
Pietrangelo
Seguin
Benn
Perron
Skinner
Hedman
Lucic
Gagner
E. Kane
Shattenkirk
Eberle
Berglund
Varlamov
Myers
Simmonds

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/story...s-vaults-board

Terrible list. Sam Gagner?

Craig Custance asked some NHL coaches and execs their opinions on the list

Quote:

One of the executives was read the list of defensemen in the Top 25 and noticed the exclusion of Ryan McDonagh. "McDonagh for me would be well up there. Just his maturity alone," he said. "I didn't hear Michael Del Zotto either." He felt that Kevin Shattenkirk (No. 20) and Victor Hedman (No. 16) were too high and would have found room for both Rangers defensemen in the top 25.

"They put them in great position to succeed because they took their time with them," he said. "As only the Rangers can do, they put guys into a position and say, 'Here it is. This is the way it's going to be, and go do it.'"

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog/...25-25-rankings

Krampus 10-10-2012 08:13 AM

hahahahaha

McD is better than two thirds of that list

RGY 10-10-2012 08:28 AM

Well that list is a joke. At the very least McDonagh should've been on it, and high on it.

Mr Writer 10-10-2012 08:28 AM

Giroux is still 24, turns 25 in Jan. So, my list includes him as well as RNH. I'll remove Marchand and Gagner from the list.

Nothing else really worth kicking up a stink about...although there's a few names there I'd question, W. Simmonds.

ESPN really seems to favor the Canadians... Can't say I disagree.

KingWantsCup 10-10-2012 08:29 AM

Marchand #10 and Varlamov even on the list bahahaha.

Mr Writer 10-10-2012 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGY (Post 54884459)
Well that list is a joke. At the very least McDonagh should've been on it, and high on it.

You're right.... McDonagh should have been included.

RGY 10-10-2012 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Writer (Post 54884461)
Giroux is still 24, turns 25 in Jan. So, my list includes him as well as RNH. I'll remove Marchand and Gagner from the list.

Nothing else really worth kicking up a stink about...although there's a few names there I'd question, W. Simmonds.

ESPN really seems to favor the Canadians... Can't say I disagree.

I disagree, I think Simmonds should be on it. He was showing glimpses of his potential in LA before being traded to Philly. Then last year he took off imo. If he has another year like last, he definitely will defend the case for being on that list.

I think Gagner should be off the list. I think Marchand should stay (as much as I can't stand him) but should be lower on the list. Varlamov should also definitely be off the list. I know I'm about to hate on the Blues but Beglund, Shattenkirk, and even Perron are borderline top 25. They haven't shown me enough YET to be in that top 25 imo. I like them, like the Blues, just don't think they should be on that list yet.

Jordan Staal is way too high. E. Kane should be higher.

Mr Writer 10-10-2012 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGY (Post 54884537)
I disagree, I think Simmonds should be on it. He was showing glimpses of his potential in LA before being traded to Philly. Then last year he took off imo. If he has another year like last, he definitely will defend the case for being on that list.

I think Gagner should be off the list. I think Marchand should stay (as much as I can't stand him) but should be lower on the list. Varlamov should also definitely be off the list. I know I'm about to hate on the Blues but Beglund, Shattenkirk, and even Perron are borderline top 25. They haven't shown me enough YET to be in that top 25 imo. I like them, like the Blues, just don't think they should be on that list yet.

Jordan Staal is way too high. E. Kane should be higher.


Ya, I get some of your points... I'm not going to be so picky as to argue of positioning on the list... only because I haven't got the time. but normally it's the kinda thing I would do though..))) I would have included players who haven't yet played an NHL game to which I'd add Granlund, Tarasenko, Yakupov and Kuznetsov. Even though I can't stand Kuznetzov. Not sure which players I'd remove from the ESPN list though.

RGY 10-10-2012 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Writer (Post 54884615)
Ya, I get some of your points... I'm not going to be so picky as to argue of positioning on the list... only because I haven't got the time. but normally it's the kinda thing I would do though..))) I would have included players who haven't yet played an NHL game to which I'd add Granlund, Tarasenko, Yakupov and Kuznetsov. Even though I can't stand Kuznetzov. Not sure which players I'd remove from the ESPN list though.

You can't include them though. They could end up being busts. They haven't proven a thing yet. Plenty of top draft picks over the years have never even played an NHL game, or ended up bouncing around the NHL from team to team as a 3rd and 4th liner. You don't know if those kids will pan out. At least the guys on the list have played NHL games and have had some success.

Mr Writer 10-10-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGY (Post 54884827)
You can't include them though. They could end up being busts. They haven't proven a thing yet. Plenty of top draft picks over the years have never even played an NHL game, or ended up bouncing around the NHL from team to team as a 3rd and 4th liner. You don't know if those kids will pan out. At least the guys on the list have played NHL games and have had some success.

Hey it's my list... I can do anything I want. )))

Cliffy1814 10-10-2012 09:17 AM

whomever put this together seems to be a Blues fan.

SupersonicMonkey* 10-10-2012 09:21 AM

McDonagh, Del Zotto, (Marc) Staal, and Stepan should be on any of these lists.

There was a thread discussing Stepan, I provided the facts that put him amongst the top centers in the league at his age group.

ESPN as a collective, don't really know what they're talking about in regards to hockey.

Trxjw 10-10-2012 09:30 AM

Pretty mediocre list. Stepan and McDonagh are considerably better than Berglund and Shattenkirk at this point. Sam Gagner continuing to be hyped the way he has been is ridiculous. Very skilled, but he's weak on the puck and doesn't have the compete level a guy his size needs to be an elite player in this league.

nyr2k2 10-10-2012 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey (Post 54884957)
McDonagh, Del Zotto, (Marc) Staal, and Stepan should be on any of these lists.

There was a thread discussing Stepan, I provided the facts that put him amongst the top centers in the league at his age group.

ESPN as a collective, don't really know what they're talking about in regards to hockey.

Staalsy is 25, and this is under 25. I agree about McDonagh and Stepan. Del Zotto should certainly be in the top 35 or so, but I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 25.

RGY 10-10-2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyr2k2 (Post 54885149)
Staalsy is 25, and this is under 25. I agree about McDonagh and Stepan. Del Zotto should certainly be in the top 35 or so, but I'm not sure I'd put him in the top 25.

Del Zotto was 18th in scoring among defensemen last year, while missing 5 games. He might have moved up a couple spots had he played in all 82. Rookie year he had 37 points. He is 22 years old this year, won't be 23 until after the season (if there is one). I think if he has another season like he did last year, he will start to push himself into that discussion of one of the elite scoring defensemen in the league, not saying he would be considered elite, but definitely on the outskirts of it. It would definitely put him on that top 25 list as well. With even more offense on the rangers roster it is very possible he puts up 48-52 points in an 82 game season. However, with the season being shortened I'd say 35-40.

nyr2k2 10-10-2012 09:51 AM

I want to see another consistent year from Del Zotto.

RGY 10-10-2012 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyr2k2 (Post 54885367)
I want to see another consistent year from Del Zotto.

I agree with you there. But there is a lot of optimism for him. It really said a lot about his character for him to comeback last year and post 41 points after playing the majority of the prior season in CT, especially for someone who is at a raw young age. 10 points in the playoffs, though he could've been better, still.

Of the top 18 defensemen in scoring last year, only 3 were ahead of del zotto that were under the age of 25. Karlsson, Pietrangelo, and Shattenkirk. All of them are older than Del Zotto.

Karlsson turns 23 in May
Pietrangelo turns 23 in January
Shattenkirk turns 24 in January
Del Zotto turns 23 in June

Not that the ages are a huge difference, but I think it makes all the more reason as to why Del Zotto should be on that list. Other than Karlsson, the other 3 all have very similar career stats. No reason DZ shouldn't have been on that list. In fact, considering that Staal, McDonagh, and Girardi are mostly stay-at-home defensemen should also play in DZ's favor. He provides more of the offense from the backend. Meanwhile Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk both play on the blues. Though when you look at both defenses, the rangers points were spread out better so it's really up for debate.

nyr2k2 10-10-2012 10:07 AM

You make a compelling case. This is why I myself never make lists--I always end up regretting something. :laugh:

Kane One 10-10-2012 10:19 AM

How is McDonagh not on that list? How is Toews higher than Stamkos?

bubba5 10-10-2012 10:44 AM

Who cares. ESPN should stick to the KHL top 25 and then revise their list if/when the lockout is over. They have not been involved in the NHL for years!

RangerBoy 10-10-2012 10:56 AM

Derek Stepan has 96 points in his 1st 2 NHL seasons. Patrik Berglund had 73 points in his 1st 2 NHL seasons. 52 points in his 3rd season. 38 points last season. Whenever these idiots get a deal done,Stepan will playing with at least one of Gaborik,Kreider or Nash.

Bleed Ranger Blue 10-10-2012 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyr2k2 (Post 54885367)
I want to see another consistent year from Del Zotto.

Me too.

The ups and downs with him over his first 3 years have been unbelievable. I thought he played great most of last year before the wheels came off at the very end.

Players that go through such wild swings take me a bit longer to trust. Unlike, say, McDonagh, who has been solid as a rock since the first time he stepped on NHL ice.

mschmidt64 10-10-2012 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey (Post 54884957)
McDonagh, Del Zotto, (Marc) Staal, and Stepan should be on any of these lists.

There was a thread discussing Stepan, I provided the facts that put him amongst the top centers in the league at his age group.

ESPN as a collective, don't really know what they're talking about in regards to hockey.

And Kreider too. How is he not on the list?

nyr2k2 10-10-2012 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschmidt64 (Post 54889013)
And Kreider too. How is he not on the list?

He's an exciting performer, but this list is all guys who have been in the league for at least a full season or two. Kreider may be on something like this next year, but I think most people want to see a full year from him first.

h0ckeyman 10-10-2012 02:57 PM

When you start reading the list from the top down and you see that at #1 is any name other than Steven Stamkos you can stop reading right there.


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