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-   -   HOH Top 40 Goaltenders of All Time (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1270035)

TheDevilMadeMe 10-11-2012 04:46 PM

HOH Top 40 Goaltenders of All Time
 
This is the final list of the top goaltenders from all of hockey history, as determined by the History of Hockey community at HFBoards:

NOTE: Please report any errors via PM to TheDevilMadeMe

Top Goaltenders of All-Time
RankPlayerHeightWeightBornDiedCareerNationality
1Patrick Roy6'1"2101965 1985-2003Canada
2Dominik Hašek6'1"1651965 1980-2011Czech
3Jacques Plante6'0"175192919861952-1975Canada
4Glenn Hall5'11"1901931 1951-1971Canada
5Terry Sawchuk5'11"190192919701949-1970Canada
6Martin Brodeur6'2"2161972 1991-presentCanada
7Ken Dryden6'4"2071947 1970-1979Canada
8Vladislav Tretiak6'0"2001952 1968-1984Russia
9Frank Brimsek5'9"170191319981938-1950USA
10Georges Vézina5'6"185188719261910-1925Canada
11Charlie Gardiner6'0176190419341927-1934Canada
12Clint Benedict5'11"185189219761912-1931Canada
13Walter "Turk" Broda5'9"165191419721935-1951Canada
14Bill Durnan6'0"190191619721944-1950Canada
15Ed Belfour6'02151965 1989-2008Canada
16Tony Esposito5'11"1851943 1967-1984Canada
17Bernie Parent5'10"1701945 1965-1979Canada
18Roy Worters5'3"135190019571925-1937Canada
19Johnny Bower5'91701924 1945-1970Canada
20Jiří Holeček5'11"1631944 1964-1981Czech
21Cecil "Tiny" Thompson5'10"160190319811928-1941Canada
22George Hainsworth5'6"150189519501923-1937Canada
23Billy Smith5'10'1851950 1971-1989Canada
24Hugh Lehman5'8"168188519611908-1928Canada
25Grant Fuhr5'10"2011962 1981-2000Canada
26Lorne "Gump" Worsley5'7"180192920071952-1974Canada
27Harry Lumley6'0"195192619981943-1960Canada
28Chuck Rayner5'11"190192020021940-1953Canada
29Tom Barrasso6'3"2101965 1983-2003USA
30Harry "Hap" Holmes5'10"170189219411912-1928Canada
31Curtis Joseph5'10"1821967 1989-2009Canada
32Eddie Giacomin5'11"180193920021965-1978Canada
33Rogie Vachon5'7"1701945 1967-1982Canada
34John Vanbiesbrouck5'8"1751963 1981-2002USA
35Percy LeSueur5'7"150188119621905-1916Canada
36Roberto Luongo6'3"1801979 1998-presentCanada
37Tim Thomas5'11"2011974 2003-2012USA
38Henrik Lundqvist6'1"1951982 2005-presentSweden
39Alec Connell5'9"150190219581924-1937Canada
40Mike Liut6'2"1951956 1977-1992Canada


Links to all the discussion threads that went into making this list:
Round 2 Voting Results
Round 2, Vote 1 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 2 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 3 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 4 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 5 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 6 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 7 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 8 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 9 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 10 Discussion

Links to the preliminary discussion threads before voters submitted their lists:
Rules Discussion Thread
Goalies Before 1950 Research Thread
Final Preliminary Discussion Thread

Links that explain the creation of the aggregate list that formed the basis of discussion. This data was released at the end of the project:
Round 1 Voting Results (Aggregate List)
Round 1 Screening Process
Participants Survey (filled out at the end of the project)

Listed here are the individual voting records of all participants:
Bring Back Scuderi
Canadiens1958
ContrarianGoaltender
DaveG
Dennis Bonvie
Dreakmur
Hawkey Town 18
foame
intylerwetrust
Jagorim Jarg
Johnny Engine
MadArcand
Mike Farkas
MXD
Nalyd Psycho
pappyline
quoipourquoi
reckoning
seventieslord
steve141
Sturminator
Taco MacArthur
tarheelhockey
TheDevilMadeMe
tony d
VanIslander
vecens24

TheDevilMadeMe 10-11-2012 04:47 PM

Please post any general comments here; leave the voting threads to the goalies available for discussion that round.

seventieslord 10-11-2012 05:23 PM

good list so far.

WarriorOfGandhi 10-12-2012 12:23 AM

man, you guys are really mailing it in this time around.

Gobo 10-27-2012 02:47 AM

YES! St. Patrick got the #1 spot!

Woooooo!

Jabroni 10-27-2012 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobo (Post 55316375)
YES! St. Patrick got the #1 spot!

Woooooo!

Yes, but the voting was VERY close. Roy and Hasek are partically tied. 1a and 1b.

Mike Farkas 10-27-2012 10:30 AM

I think "number" would be a useless but somewhat neat addition to the "goaltenders" table because most goalies didn't change that much and most goalies use the same basic set of numbers and it would add a slight novelty to it that very few would enjoy.

*Ducks a punch thrown by TDMM*

TheDevilMadeMe 10-27-2012 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Farkas (Post 55318489)
I think "number" would be a useless but somewhat neat addition to the "goaltenders" table because most goalies didn't change that much and most goalies use the same basic set of numbers and it would add a slight novelty to it that very few would enjoy.

*Ducks a punch thrown by TDMM*

If you want to commit to researching the numbers of all the guys added (including the pre-NHL and European goalies), then I can add the column. It's the only "category" that isn't easily found on wikipedia or hockeydb. As is, we didn't even find the numbers for all the defensemen from last year's list, and nobody seems to care.

pdd 11-01-2012 02:41 AM

Hall above Sawchuk... :shakehead

King Forsberg 11-01-2012 03:44 AM

Glad to see Roy get the number one spot. Not that Hasek doesn't deserve it, but he gets overrated sometimes.

Zippy316 11-14-2012 08:03 PM

It's laughable Brodeur is at number six....

But why should I even bother arguing...

Morgoth Bauglir 11-14-2012 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy316 (Post 55772317)
It's laughable Brodeur is at number six....

But why should I even bother arguing...

Care to elaborate?????

Doctor No 11-14-2012 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy316 (Post 55772317)
It's laughable Brodeur is at number six....

But why should I even bother arguing...

Well, you didn't bother arguing when everyone else was putting together well-reasoned and sound arguments. And you probably haven't read those well-reasoned and sound arguments, either.

So I wouldn't expect that you'd bother at this point.

Seriously - we worked our ***** off for this. Don't come in here and piss all over it with flippant remarks.

Morgoth Bauglir 11-14-2012 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur (Post 55772359)
Well, you didn't bother arguing when everyone else was putting together well-reasoned and sound arguments. And you probably haven't read those well-reasoned and sound arguments, either.

So I wouldn't expect that you'd bother at this point.

Seriously - we worked our ***** off for this. Don't come in here and piss all over it with flippant remarks.

Thank you :handclap:

Zippy316 11-14-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 (Post 55772355)
Care to elaborate?????

Well, his career speaks for itself. I wasn't around to hear all the arguments, nor do I really want to look back on them.

People are always going to bring up the "he had a great team around him argument." However, post-lockout to up until this season, he bailed some Devils teams out that had a lot of holes. It wasn't until last season that the Devils actually had a great team top-to-bottom, and they went to the SCF.

I'd be willing to bet the main focus against him was the team around him, but Brodeur was just as crucial to that team as they were to him. His play made the trapping system work just as much as the players in front of him.

It's really hard to compare guys from completely different eras especially guys who played in the 50s and 60s compared to guys who played now. My question is what were the main points for putting guys like Sawchuk, Hall, and Plante above Brodeur? That had to be some kind of collective agreement on why they were better than him, I guess that would make me understand it better...

Doctor No 11-14-2012 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy316 (Post 55772467)
Well, his career speaks for itself. I wasn't around to hear all the arguments, nor do I really want to look back on them.

People are always going to bring up the "he had a great team around him argument." However, post-lockout to up until this season, he bailed some Devils teams out that had a lot of holes. It wasn't until last season that the Devils actually had a great team top-to-bottom, and they went to the SCF.

I'd be willing to bet the main focus against him was the team around him, but Brodeur was just as crucial to that team as they were to him. His play made the trapping system work just as much as the players in front of him.

It's really hard to compare guys from completely different eras especially guys who played in the 50s and 60s compared to guys who played now. My question is what were the main points for putting guys like Sawchuk, Hall, and Plante above Brodeur? That had to be some kind of collective agreement on why they were better than him, I guess that would make me understand it better...

The two bolded statements contradict one another.

The threads are there - go read them. Respect the effort that was put into this project (even if you don't agree with the result).

Yes, it's really hard to compare players from different eras. However, if you're going to do an all-time ranking, it's a requirement (as hard as it may be).

Zippy316 11-14-2012 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur (Post 55772489)
The two bolded statements contradict one another.

The threads are there - go read them. Respect the effort that was put into this project (even if you don't agree with the result).

Yes, it's really hard to compare players from different eras. However, if you're going to do an all-time ranking, it's a requirement (as hard as it may be).

I don't want to divulge into every nook and cranny of the arguments, but I'm just curious to know the main pieces. There had to be a few main points that made some people vote those guys over Brodeur, whether it be winning percentage, teams, award voting, or whatnot.

I'm just curious as to what those arguments were, I'm open to changing my opinion, but I'm just curious to see the validity of the argument for those guys?

Morgoth Bauglir 11-14-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy316 (Post 55772467)
Well, his career speaks for itself. I wasn't around to hear all the arguments, nor do I really want to look back on them.

People are always going to bring up the "he had a great team around him argument." However, post-lockout to up until this season, he bailed some Devils teams out that had a lot of holes. It wasn't until last season that the Devils actually had a great team top-to-bottom, and they went to the SCF.

I'd be willing to bet the main focus against him was the team around him, but Brodeur was just as crucial to that team as they were to him. His play made the trapping system work just as much as the players in front of him.

It's really hard to compare guys from completely different eras especially guys who played in the 50s and 60s compared to guys who played now. My question is what were the main points for putting guys like Sawchuk, Hall, and Plante above Brodeur? That had to be some kind of collective agreement on why they were better than him, I guess that would make me understand it better...

So read back and you'll find those arguments. Or, maybe, someone here has the patience to summarize them for your edification.

I do do know one thing, though. This isn't a thread for people to post propaganda for their favorites. The people in here have put in a lot of work studying these guys and weighing their careers in an effort to come to some kind of consensus on a ranking for them. Having someone come in and dump on their work while offering NOTHING constructive themselves is more than a bit irritating.

Doctor No 11-14-2012 08:19 PM

That's fine - if someone wants to regurgitate the salient points made back then, they're free to do so.

However, let's do it in the overall (stickied) thread. None of the players are Vote 3 eligible, and therefore, it's off-topic here.

You'll gain a lot of understanding by reading through both threads - and you'll probably gain an appreciation for the players who finished ahead of Brodeur in the rankings. It wasn't an easy vote.

EDIT: thanks to TDMM for moving these.

Zippy316 11-14-2012 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur (Post 55772599)
That's fine - if someone wants to regurgitate the salient points made back then, they're free to do so.

However, let's do it in the overall (stickied) thread. None of the players are Vote 3 eligible, and therefore, it's off-topic here.

You'll gain a lot of understanding by reading through both threads - and you'll probably gain an appreciation for the players who finished ahead of Brodeur in the rankings. It wasn't an easy vote.

EDIT: thanks to TDMM for moving these.

Way too many things to read through. Had I actually read throughout the discussion, I might have been able to actually read through them, but I didn't. No one remembers or has a brief recollection on the main pieces that separated Brodeur from the five above him?

Doctor No 11-14-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy316 (Post 55772795)
Way too many things to read through. Had I actually read throughout the discussion, I might have been able to actually read through them, but I didn't. No one remembers or has a brief recollection on the main pieces that separated Brodeur from the five above him?

Like I said in the post you quoted, if someone wants to regurgitate the salient points made back then, they're free to do so.

I won't be doing it; I've already told you where to find it. "TL;DR" doesn't play well for me.

Nalyd Psycho 11-14-2012 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy316 (Post 55772795)
Way too many things to read through. Had I actually read throughout the discussion, I might have been able to actually read through them, but I didn't. No one remembers or has a brief recollection on the main pieces that separated Brodeur from the five above him?

I would gladly give a quick run down to someone who appreciated the hard work put into the process and respected the people involved. But you are acting so childishly I wonder why I'm dignifying you with any response at all.

Zippy316 11-14-2012 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho (Post 55773441)
I would gladly give a quick run down to someone who appreciated the hard work put into the process and respected the people involved. But you are acting so childishly I wonder why I'm dignifying you with any response at all.

I'm not downplaying the hard work involved I just don't understand what arguments could've actually put those guys ahead of Brodeur. Granted, it's totally different time periods, but Brodeur has literally everything going in his favor, so there had to be one or two major things that made Brodeur's accomplishments seem much more minimal to the majority. I didn't exactly read every part of the argument either, and I'm sure you guys probably analyzed the statistics of the statistics. That plus something I'm missing that puts those guys over Brodeur, I'm just wondering what exactly that is.

I'll admit, my first comment probably was a bit childish, but I read through parts of the threads or at least peaked at them, so I guess it was a bit naive and misconceived. It's clear you guys put a lot of time and effort into that, but that statement was made before realizing that.

seventieslord 11-14-2012 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy316 (Post 55773683)
Brodeur has literally everything going in his favor, .

Those of us who spent the time doing this didn't think so.

Canadiens1958 11-14-2012 10:55 PM

Time
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy316 (Post 55773683)
I'm not downplaying the hard work involved I just don't understand what arguments could've actually put those guys ahead of Brodeur. Granted, it's totally different time periods, but Brodeur has literally everything going in his favor, so there had to be one or two major things that made Brodeur's accomplishments seem much more minimal to the majority. I didn't exactly read every part of the argument either, and I'm sure you guys probably analyzed the statistics of the statistics. That plus something I'm missing that puts those guys over Brodeur, I'm just wondering what exactly that is.

I'll admit, my first comment probably was a bit childish, but I read through parts of the threads or at least peaked at them, so I guess it was a bit naive and misconceived. It's clear you guys put a lot of time and effort into that, but that statement was made before realizing that.


In the amount of time it took to make your posts, read the answers, think of replies, etc you could have read the threads involved, seen the arguments and rebuttals.


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