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-   -   2012 AAA Draft Signup Thread (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1271359)

seventieslord 10-15-2012 11:26 AM

2012 AAA Draft Signup Thread
 
We will get this going right away, perhaps as soon as 3-4 days from now if the interest is there.

MLD Finals participants are of course invited to participate. there may be slight overlap with the finals but it won't be much.

I am in. let's hope for at least 10 teams!

1. seventieslord & Dreakmur - Regina Pat Canadians
2. tony d - St.John's Monsters
3. Velociraptor - Utah Grizzlies
4. Bring Back Scuderi - Pittsburgh Professionals
5. tarheelhockey - TBA
6. Hedberg - Fort Saskatchewan Traders
7. Mike Farkas - Buffalo Mugwumps
8. BillyShoe1721 - EHC Eisbären Berlin
9. jkrx & Hobnobs - Sheffield Steelers
10. chaosrevolver - Belleville Bulls
11. BudsBuster - Birmingham Barracudas
12. Johnny Engine - St. John's Ice Caps

mystery noob - said in PM he'd "possibly" join if we need someone else.

Dreakmur 10-15-2012 11:35 AM

Once again, I don't want my own team, but I wouldn't mind riding shotgun with somebody :)

vecens24 10-15-2012 03:26 PM

I'm passing this time around. Grad school, some writing I'm doing, plus the goalies project on the HOH board have me pretty busy haha.

I'll for sure be around to do my daily mod duties and to check it out, but just don't have the time this time around.

Good luck everyone though!

tony d 10-15-2012 05:37 PM

I'll join but maybe a wait of a couple weeks would be a good idea. Would allow people to decide what they're doing here and give us a break between the MLD final and starting a new draft.

My team name will be the St.John's Monsters.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gFwFFFD6SP..._secondary.jpg

seventieslord 10-15-2012 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony d (Post 55015397)
I'll join but maybe a wait of a couple weeks would be a good idea. Would allow people to decide what they're doing here and give us a break between the MLD final and starting a new draft.

My team name will be the St.John's Monsters.

Good to have you!

We can go with what the majority wants. I was just thinking that because of the way the last couple of rounds have dragged out (and how little discussion there was in round 2 anyway), most active GMs have already had quite a long break.

Anyone else who has an opinion on the matter, please speak up.

Velociraptor 10-15-2012 07:46 PM

http://elmoresportsgroup.com/wp-cont...GRIZZ-LOGO.png

I'll join as the Utah Grizzlies, I'm pretty busy with school but I'm sure I'll find the time to make a pick a day.

seventieslord 10-15-2012 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velociraptor (Post 55018065)
http://elmoresportsgroup.com/wp-cont...GRIZZ-LOGO.png

I'll join as the Utah Grizzlies, I'm pretty busy with school but I'm sure I'll find the time to make a pick a day.

good to have you!

on that note, let's not feel like we have to be bound to a certain format. It hasn't been particularly bad, but it does lend itself to people in certain time zones having advantages (or, in my case in the past, having an advantage by "wanting it more" and waking up just to hit "submit post"). This is the low minors, so we could experiment with a different way of doing things.

just throwing this out there after literally no thought, but... what about a 4 hour clock all draft, with 8 dead hours every day? (at a time that corresponds most closely to what the majority of us would call "overnight")

Rob Scuderi 10-15-2012 08:35 PM

I'm definitely in as well, not sure about my team yet.

Also I think playing with the clock could be a good idea. I felt dirty being a beneficiary from the noon EST start time, and Billy had 2-3 picks scooped by hour(s) which really sucks.

seventieslord 10-16-2012 09:47 AM

I have added BudsBuster to the OP as I know he will be in. He only really posts from work though, and he's not in until tomorrow. I'm sure he'll confirm then.

VI, MF, THH... where are ya?

tarheelhockey 10-16-2012 12:30 PM

I'm willing to join in principle, but for the time being I have both the MLD Finals and the Goaltenders project going on -- can't imagine adding the AAA draft. There are only so many hours a day that one can devote to HF history games...

... right? Right!?

Anyway, maybe put me on a list of reserves in case we're still short at the end of the signup period.

TheDevilMadeMe 10-16-2012 12:37 PM

i wouldn't even think of starting for another few weeks, but don't wait for me, since there's a good chance i won't have time to join anyway.

Hedberg 10-16-2012 03:44 PM

I'm in as the Fort Saskatchewan Traders

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...w0efgfe18l.gif

seventieslord 10-16-2012 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedberg (Post 55039255)
I'm in as the Fort Saskatchewan Traders

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...w0efgfe18l.gif

we better draw separate divisions.... :p:

Mike Farkas 10-16-2012 04:48 PM

Oof...startin up right away, huh? My concern is that now we're going to be fully detached from award voting and the advanced statisticians here are going to have a field day with the numbers...personally, I don't believe in hockey statistics really...let me clarify, I don't believe they can start a discussion/argument, but they can aid in helping to finish one...

I believe in scouting and coaching techniques - not unlike C1958 - so unless I see the player, I can't really use him...and I'm guessing the newspaper archives on this tier of players is fairly dry, yes? So I can't even get second-hand scouting reports pieced together like in MLD...

So, I think I'm going to come in at an insurmountable disadvantage...because I really just can't justify a player with statistics alone...but maybe I'm misreading the situation (hell, maybe I'm taking the fun out of it, I don't know) and it won't be as bad as I'm imagining...

I'd rather have a team of C1958, pnep (where is pnep?) and myself...gives a healthy balance I think. :)

Eh...I'll give it a shot...worst case I have a modern bias...:sueme:

I'll be the Buffalo Mugwumps

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...mugwump-pc.jpg

TheDevilMadeMe 10-16-2012 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Farkas (Post 55041383)
Oof...startin up right away, huh? My concern is that now we're going to be fully detached from award voting and the advanced statisticians here are going to have a field day with the numbers...personally, I don't believe in hockey statistics really...let me clarify, I don't believe they can start a discussion/argument, but they can aid in helping to finish one...

I believe in scouting and coaching techniques - not unlike C1958 - so unless I see the player, I can't really use him...and I'm guessing the newspaper archives on this tier of players is fairly dry, yes? So I can't even get second-hand scouting reports pieced together like in MLD...

So, I think I'm going to come in at an insurmountable disadvantage...because I really just can't justify a player with statistics alone...but maybe I'm misreading the situation (hell, maybe I'm taking the fun out of it, I don't know) and it won't be as bad as I'm imagining...

I'd rather have a team of C1958, pnep (where is pnep?) and myself...gives a healthy balance I think. :)

Eh...I'll give it a shot...worst case I have a modern bias...:sueme:

I'll be the Buffalo Mugwumps

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...mugwump-pc.jpg

Awards voting can be something of a proxy for "what people saw," for example, "out of 60 writers, 2 thought this guy was the best defenseman in the league, 10 thought he was second best, 25 thought he was third best," etc. But the number of players with a decent sample size of votes in their favor is certainly dwindling.

Mike Farkas 10-16-2012 05:09 PM

Yeah, I mean, I don't like to cling to any one thing...but award voting pre-expansion, seems to have merit - at least to me...which I get from reading the game reports by the writers that voted...they have a greater understanding of how the game is played and actually were required to watch it, full well knowing that they had to transcribe the events because only the other 5,000 (whatever) people in the arena actually saw the action (with a few others on TV as the years progress on, of course) and other people wanted to know about it...

Today, the line between media and fan is almost non-existent, not including the upper echelon (Bob McKenzie, for instance).

VanIslander 10-16-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony d (Post 55015397)
I'll join but maybe a wait of a couple weeks would be a good idea.

I agree. Wait at least a week please. I'm swamped this week. Next Wednesday or Friday would be nice, giving us time to do research and be ready to make wise picks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Farkas
I really just can't justify a player with statistics alone... I don't like to cling to any one thing...

I personally don't like picks that are based on one secondary statistic (TOI or games played) or simply because a guy was captain for five years. Decisions of all-time worth is a complex process with many factors. Of course, at the AAA level, the brilliance of a player is usually only seen in one or two areas of his game, but assessing his value should take many factors into consideration.

VanIslander 10-16-2012 06:58 PM

delete

TheDevilMadeMe 10-16-2012 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanIslander (Post 55044711)

I personally don't like picks that are based on one secondary statistic (TOI or games played) or simply becasue a guy was captain for five years. Decisions of all-time worth is a complex process with many factors. Of course, at the AAA level, the brilliance of a player is usually only seen in one or two areas of his game, but assessing his value should take many factors into consideration.

I agree 100% with this in theory.

In application, our own evaluations are quite different.

seventieslord 10-16-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanIslander (Post 55044711)
I personally don't like picks that are based on one secondary statistic (TOI or games played) or simply because a guy was captain for five years. Decisions of all-time worth is a complex process with many factors. Of course, at the AAA level, the brilliance of a player is usually only seen in one or two areas of his game, but assessing his value should take many factors into consideration.

Why is TOI a secondary statistic? It's the only stat you're guaranteed to compile just by being on the ice.... Sounds as primary as it gets. And, it's the one stat that actually reflects what your coach thinks of you. The coach whose $1M/year job depends on handing out a limited amount of ice time as judiciously as possible.

Mike Farkas 10-17-2012 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 55051015)
Why is TOI a secondary statistic? It's the only stat you're guaranteed to compile just by being on the ice.... Sounds as primary as it gets. And, it's the one stat that actually reflects what your coach thinks of you. The coach whose $1M/year job depends on handing out a limited amount of ice time as judiciously as possible.

As a believer in coaching, I'm a believer in TOI - as far as I can throw it. Other factors apply, certainly. It's all these percentages and bonuses and adjustments and all that that I'm a little unsure about.

Is there a "what the hell are they talking about thread?" for those that are not into stats...?

Also, my team is the Mugwumps...not the mudwumps...:rant: Thank you.

seventieslord 10-17-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Farkas (Post 55069521)
As a believer in coaching, I'm a believer in TOI - as far as I can throw it. Other factors apply, certainly.

Fair enough.

Quote:

It's all these percentages and bonuses and adjustments and all that that I'm a little unsure about. Is there a "what the hell are they talking about thread?" for those that are not into stats...?
We'll try better to help you with those.

The good news is, the percentages and adjustments are really only used for judging offensive output, and forwards can be judged primarily based on their offensive output. When I'm looking for a forward, I'm looking for the guys with the best offensive upside, then when I've narrowed it down, I assign mental bonuses for circumstances and other factors. Then I pinpoint the player based on skill set need. In other words, it's not all about stats. But at the same time, your player should have the upside to play at this level so that kind of stuff is a key component.

I'm certainly not one for using that kind of stuff (measures of offense, whatever kind you prefer) to judge a defenseman (as it's mostly circumstantial for players at this level) or a role player forward (as it's partially based on circumstances that they won't be the beneficiary of at this level and it's secondary to their non-offense skills)

Quote:

Also, my team is the Mugwumps...not the mudwumps...:rant: Thank you.
:dunce:

Dreakmur 10-17-2012 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Farkas (Post 55069521)
As a believer in coaching, I'm a believer in TOI - as far as I can throw it. Other factors apply, certainly. It's all these percentages and bonuses and adjustments and all that that I'm a little unsure about.

Is there a "what the hell are they talking about thread?" for those that are not into stats...?

Are you talking about point percentages? If so, those were introduced as a way to help suppliment our raw top-20 finishes. As the league gets smaller, the top-20s become less meaningful, especially as you get further away from the top 5 or so.

How could we mathematically show that langing in 30th in today's league was harder than landing in 17th in 1930. That's when the percentage system as introduced. Instead of just looking at what place the guy finishes, the percentage looks at how far that was behind the leaders.

seventieslord 10-17-2012 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreakmur (Post 55069789)
Are you talking about point percentages? If so, those were introduced as a way to help suppliment our raw top-20 finishes. As the league gets smaller, the top-20s become less meaningful, especially as you get further away from the top 5 or so.

How could we mathematically show that langing in 30th in today's league was harder than landing in 17th in 1930. That's when the percentage system as introduced. Instead of just looking at what place the guy finishes, the percentage looks at how far that was behind the leaders.

very well said.

however, it's like shorthand to guys like us now, and I think it's a worthy point that maybe we haven't done a good enough job assimilating the newer guys into it - not that they have any obligation to accept it as dogma, of course.

Mike Farkas 10-17-2012 06:53 PM

Yeah, I see these "percentages" and 2nd place to outliers and this that and the other. And I'm handy with math...really handy I think...ya know, not the high level stuff I see Taco and others doing...but I can do some work with numbers...in fact, in my younger days, I was able to manipulate stats in such a way that it made me distrust them in such a dynamic game like hockey...

I'm not really asking for anything, but it might be something to consider one day...making a thread that explains or links to explanations about some of the methodologies some of the vets here use...maybe like an ATD FAQ type of thing...

Another good example is the "booster" I see for pre-expansion players. That just pops up now and again and sometimes I see it not used like you're doing the other person favor..."and that's without the pre-expansion booster...you're welcome..." and I don't know what you're talking about or if you're being generous...I have a rough idea of what it means, but I've never seen it actually explained. In fairness, I never looked that hard.


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