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-   -   More flex for week skills? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1271599)

mistrhanky 10-15-2012 05:02 PM

More flex for week skills?
 
Old man with bad knees joing a beer league. I am still learning how to use my weight and body to produce good shots(don't have a slapshot yet) and getting a decent wrister is my first goal, then I want to work on the rest. My current stick was an 87 cut down to about 100 unfortunately for stick height. I have been considering getting something like a 75 flex Mako($ friendly) in hopes of being able to generate a lot more flex until I learn how to get a shot going. I am worried that I might break the stick to easily or that it would set back my overall development. I am at a cross roads between wanting to contribute to a team but knowing it will take time to develop a proper shot mechanics. Any help?

uncleodb 10-15-2012 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistrhanky (Post 55014793)
Old man with bad knees joing a beer league. I am still learning how to use my weight and body to produce good shots(don't have a slapshot yet) and getting a decent wrister is my first goal, then I want to work on the rest. My current stick was an 87 cut down to about 100 unfortunately for stick height. I have been considering getting something like a 75 flex Mako($ friendly) in hopes of being able to generate a lot more flex until I learn how to get a shot going. I am worried that I might break the stick to easily or that it would set back my overall development. I am at a cross roads between wanting to contribute to a team but knowing it will take time to develop a proper shot mechanics. Any help?

From what I read from the several older threads regarding stick length and flex, your height, weight, strength will determine if a lower flex would be better for you. See if you can find these older topics as they are quite informative. If you already feel that your wrist shot is weak b/c you are not generating enough flex, you can definitely try a lower flex. A good deal of your shot power comes from flexing the stick, from what I understand. Good luck!

AIREAYE 10-15-2012 10:05 PM

^ +1

Feed Me A Stray Cat 10-15-2012 10:32 PM

I've heard more flex is better for weekend skills.

Jarick 10-16-2012 09:55 AM

How tall and strong are you?

mistrhanky 10-16-2012 03:25 PM

I am a big lurch. 6'3", 230. So, strength wise an 85/87 flex should not really be an issue for me. It is more of a terrible-mechanics-but-want-to-contribute-as-I-learn issue. Without the stability, my strength does not help me much.

Jarick 10-16-2012 03:29 PM

Yeah at your height 100 flex is the norm and 85 would be the choice if you like them whippy. There is nothing wrong with trying a whippier stick though, especially to learn on as you figure out how the flex works. When you can maximize the flex with a whippy stick, you can slightly adjust the timing and possibly get a bit more power out of a stiffer one.

What stick are you using now?

mistrhanky 10-16-2012 03:35 PM

My current stick was an 87 flex Nexus 400 cut down to about 100 flex unfortunately for stick height. That was initially quite helpful as the smaller stick helped me get more comfortable with puck handling. I think I am ready to use a stick uncut, so maybe the 85 flex will feel like a big difference anyway instead of going down into the 70's? I was looking at something like a Mako M1 if that makes a difference...

Jarick 10-16-2012 03:40 PM

You won't be getting any benefit going from the Nexus 400 to the Mako M1. At that end of the stick spectrum, you have a fancy paint job on frankly a cheap fiberglass stick.

I would stick with the 400 until you can spring for something in the $100-125 range, or else if you can find a good clearance or slightly used stick that's an option as well.

mistrhanky 10-16-2012 04:30 PM

What is really the difference between that next level Of stick and the one i have? I've handled in the stores but I really can't feel a difference other than weight. I need to get a second stick for league play but I can't see how the stick would make a huge difference when my mechanics are really are not there yet. it's like having a great Golf Club and being a novice golfer, no?

Jarick 10-16-2012 05:00 PM

Expensive sticks are made of graphite, which is light weight and quickly snaps straight when bent (kick). Cheap sticks are made of fiberglass, which is heavy and does not perform like graphite.

$100 is about the sweet spot for sticks where you have good amount of graphite and they flex and kick pretty close to high end sticks. Those $50 sticks are a complete crapshoot. Never once have I heard anyone say they have been even close to satisfactory.

The best on the market are the Nexus 600, Reebok Ai5, those are good bang for the buck sticks around $100. And they may feel completely different than your 400 in terms of flex, meaning you might be able to use an 85 with them much more comfortably.

hyster110 10-16-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistrhanky (Post 55038897)
My current stick was an 87 flex Nexus 400 cut down to about 100 flex unfortunately for stick height. That was initially quite helpful as the smaller stick helped me get more comfortable with puck handling. I think I am ready to use a stick uncut, so maybe the 85 flex will feel like a big difference anyway instead of going down into the 70's? I was looking at something like a Mako M1 if that makes a difference...

try a 85 uncut because you will notice a big difference in flex and the feel when you shoot.

newfr4u 10-16-2012 07:10 PM

i've become more of a believer in practicing/dryland-shooting with a heavier and stiffer stick, and then playing with a ligher/whippier one.

in practice, you generally are not contested, so quickness is less of a concern, but form is. most people will try to make a good shot, apply good downward pressure, bend their knees, etc. getting used to a heavier/stiffer stick also promotes maximal effort out of your muscles.

in a game though, you don't have time to think about technique or anything, but using a lighter/whippier stick will immediately speed up your movements and release.

AIREAYE 10-16-2012 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 55041775)
Expensive sticks are made of graphite, which is light weight and quickly snaps straight when bent (kick). Cheap sticks are made of fiberglass, which is heavy and does not perform like graphite.

$100 is about the sweet spot for sticks where you have good amount of graphite and they flex and kick pretty close to high end sticks. Those $50 sticks are a complete crapshoot. Never once have I heard anyone say they have been even close to satisfactory.

The best on the market are the Nexus 600, Reebok Ai5, those are good bang for the buck sticks around $100. And they may feel completely different than your 400 in terms of flex, meaning you might be able to use an 85 with them much more comfortably.

This. See if you can try finding some older $100 pricepoint sticks on clearance. You will have a hard time finding anything below an 85 flex on most entry level sticks at retail.

nullterm 10-16-2012 09:41 PM

You'll find a lower flex # to be alot more forgiving and easier to get the most out of in a real game situation, when you are already focused on everything else going on around you.

I'm 6ft, 195lbs and using a 65/70 flex cut down (to a 75-80 flex?) and never had any durability issues. *knock on wood*

Splitbtw 10-16-2012 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistrhanky (Post 55038897)
My current stick was an 87 flex Nexus 400 cut down to about 100 flex unfortunately for stick height. That was initially quite helpful as the smaller stick helped me get more comfortable with puck handling. I think I am ready to use a stick uncut, so maybe the 85 flex will feel like a big difference anyway instead of going down into the 70's? I was looking at something like a Mako M1 if that makes a difference...

How much stick are you cutting off in length?

mistrhanky 10-17-2012 09:29 AM

I had cut about an inch off of it. The marking on the shaft indicated it should be right about 100 now. If I can find a good deal on a clearance $100 stick, I will give that a shot as an 85. Otherwise, I think I am going to try to get a cheaper 75 type stick at least until I can afford to up my game. My preference is to find one of the $100 ones though and see how much difference the quality of stick makes to me.

Jarick 10-17-2012 10:31 AM

Wow, there's no way a stick should go from 85 to 100 flex with 1". Maybe 3" cut off. Are you sure you didn't get a 100 flex?

I honestly don't think you're going to see much difference between those $50 sticks regardless of flex.

Also, I should be clear, there is no standard definition of flex, so one company's 75 flex could be another company's 100 flex. It changes even within brands among models and price points.

So that 87 flex stick could actually be 110 flex, or it could be 65 flex, you have no idea really until you test the flex in the store or on the ice and have used enough sticks to get a feel for it.

But those $200 sticks tend to be much, much closer to stated flex, with a couple exceptions (Nexus being whippy for one).

mistrhanky 10-17-2012 11:12 AM

Let's assume for the moment that I am correct and it is a 100 flex stick right now. Are you saying I won't see much difference going from the 100 to the 85 or lower because they are cheap sticks, or are you saying I won't see much difference between the two cheap sticks I mentioned?

Jarick 10-17-2012 11:42 AM

I think with the cheap sticks the flex rating is inaccurate and the performance of the stick means the flex won't help you as much.

Look, the big thing is comfort. You want to feel like the stick "gives" just a little bit when you are shooting. That means it's storing and releasing energy while you shoot. Granted you need to learn how to use that energy in your timing and mechanics, but that's the goal.

You don't want a stick that feels like it's bending in half or going to break. That means you are losing power and accuracy. You also don't want a stick that feels like it doesn't bend at all. That means you are losing power and potentially accuracy.

For you, I would first figure out what flex feels like.

This video shows how you can scientifically test the actual flex of a stick. The machine "holds" the stick where your two hands would go and deflects the blade portion:



Now in the real world, we don't have machines and we don't want to break sticks. So we grab them off the shelf, get in a shooting position, and just lean a little bit on them.

If the stick doesn't move much and requires you to really push down, it's too stiff. If it the stick feels like it's bending way too easily, it's too whippy. If it gives just a little bit and then springs back when you let up, it's perfect.

I would go to the store and push down on some sticks and get a feel for them. Try the $200 sticks in all the flexes, try different brands and models, try an intermediate stick, try a 110 flex, etc. Then feel your stick.

My gut says that cheap stick probably feels way stiffer than the same flex rating of a higher level stick.

mistrhanky 10-17-2012 02:53 PM

Appreciate all of the help. So, I am looking at around at a few places and considering that move up to the next level of stick.

Are there any particular opinions on the
Bauer one60
Warrior Double D Dolomite
Easton S13-S15

Are there any particular difference or values in there. These seem like they might be that next tier sort of sticks that I can find some decent clearance values on. I currently play with a Backstrom P92 curve now and I like the way it helps lift my shot, but it is pretty rough on my backhand. Will probably look for something similar yet a bit kinder. Either way, I appreciate all of the advice.

Jarick 10-17-2012 03:14 PM

Dolomite > S15 > S13 > One60 IMO. I'd go with the Dolomite if you can since it was a $180 stick when new. I used to have one of that year's models and it was excellent.

Personally I use the P92 as well. I take 10 times as many shots on the forehand than the backhand so I will take a better forehand shot and a little less backhand. I have probably scored 75 forehand goals in league compared to maybe 1 or 2 backhand.

nullterm 10-17-2012 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 55066209)
Dolomite > S15 > S13 > One60 IMO. I'd go with the Dolomite if you can since it was a $180 stick when new. I used to have one of that year's models and it was excellent.

Personally I use the P92 as well. I take 10 times as many shots on the forehand than the backhand so I will take a better forehand shot and a little less backhand. I have probably scored 75 forehand goals in league compared to maybe 1 or 2 backhand.

I'll second the Dolomite. I got one in a 70 flex for 1/2 price clearance. LOVE IT.

mistrhanky 10-18-2012 11:01 AM

Ok. Going to give the Dolomite a shot. Which curve comes closest to the Backstrom, the Draper or Vanek? I think a 5 lie is probably what I need, but my choices are limited to a 75 Draper 5 lie, or an 85 Vanek. So, wippiness vs lie, which way would you opt?

AIREAYE 10-18-2012 11:20 AM

You can get used to the curve, the Draper is the Backstrom clone and very similar lie/blade rocker. Vanek is a slightly open heel, a toned down P106 or a slightly deeper more open PM9 with a lower lie than the Draper.


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