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-   -   Ilari Filppula... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1273003)

jonlin 10-19-2012 01:25 AM

Ilari Filppula...
 
Anyone got a clue why Ilari Filppula never got a chance to play with The Red Wings while being in the organisation? He actually wasn`t doing too bad in the AHL:

2010-11 Grand Rapids Griffins AHL 76 20 44 64 24 0

Now he is tearing up the FEL:

2012-13 Jokerit SM-liiga 13 7 12 19 12 6

Detroit doesn`t really have too many top6 guys. Helm, Abdelkar etc will IMO be only good bottom 6 type of players while I think Ilari would actually had a chance to become a top6. Maybe worth another gamble and this time in The NHL...?

FissionFire 10-19-2012 01:29 AM

IIRC he just didn't have the skating speed to compete at the NHL level in a top 6 role. I think that was the knock on him.

cjm502 10-19-2012 01:38 AM

I think he could be a long term top 6 guy in the NHL, just not with the wings.

Finnpin 10-19-2012 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FissionFire (Post 55108101)
IIRC he just didn't have the skating speed to compete at the NHL level in a top 6 role. I think that was the knock on him.

Pretty much this. Talent wise he is NHLer.

jonlin 10-19-2012 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FissionFire (Post 55108101)
IIRC he just didn't have the skating speed to compete at the NHL level in a top 6 role. I think that was the knock on him.

How can u know? He wasn`t given a chance... I dont see Cogliano and Helm tearing it up with speed either!
He has the skills to be a 2nd line playmaking center if he gets a chance IMO! He has actually getting better year after year! Both Filppulas seem to be really late bloomers.

Anchor Town 10-19-2012 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonlin (Post 55108647)
How can u know? He wasn`t given a chance... I dont see Cogliano and Helm tearing it up with speed either!
He has the skills to be a 2nd line playmaking center if he gets a chance IMO! He has actually getting better year after year! Both Filppulas seem to be really late bloomers.

Well you can determine a players speed regardless of where they are playing (see Teemu Pulkkinen). And from everyone who watched him play against NHL regulars in camp they said he just didn't have the wheels to cut it

jonlin 10-19-2012 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the banks (Post 55108943)
Well you can determine a players speed regardless of where they are playing (see Teemu Pulkkinen). And from everyone who watched him play against NHL regulars in camp they said he just didn't have the wheels to cut it

U mean hes speed came as a surprise to Red Wings coaching staff and scouts?:sarcasm:
They knew he wasn`t the fastest player around when he was signed. Why sign a player if u aint going to give him a fair chance? If you counter with " He was signed to make our AHL-team better", I`m not buying it. That is not very tempting for future free agents. I was actually never a fan of him earlier, but he has really started to show some skills the last 3 yrs.

Kentti 10-19-2012 05:33 AM

Having seen most of the Jokerit games this season, Ilari has been playing better than his younger brother, Valtteri. The stats confirm this.

But I'm not complaining he's playing in Finland, he makes Jokerit a better team. :)

pdd 10-19-2012 08:29 AM

*hums*

ALF AmericanLionsFan 10-19-2012 08:44 AM

I thought he played really well in GR and deserved a call up or two to get an opportunity to sink or swim.

InjuredChoker 10-19-2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kentti (Post 55109345)
Having seen most of the Jokerit games this season, Ilari has been playing better than his younger brother, Valtteri. The stats confirm this.

But I'm not complaining he's playing in Finland, he makes Jokerit a better team. :)

I've seen most games too, I think and he's been at least as good as Valtteri.

crashman 10-19-2012 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonlin (Post 55108647)
How can u know? He wasn`t given a chance... I dont see Cogliano and Helm tearing it up with speed either!
He has the skills to be a 2nd line playmaking center if he gets a chance IMO! He has actually getting better year after year! Both Filppulas seem to be really late bloomers.

I totally agree.

Not Sure if Ilari could be a NHLer, but I definitely see Val as a late bloomer. I think last season was just a taste of what's to come form him.

pdd 10-19-2012 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashman (Post 55113983)
I totally agree.

Not Sure if Ilari could be a NHLer, but I definitely see Val as a late bloomer. I think last season was just a taste of what's to come form him.

Or a career-best in points because he was playing aggressive offensive hockey with skilled linemates while paying less attention to his defense.

Flowah 10-19-2012 01:03 PM

I wish they'd have given him like 3-5 games up, just to see.

I don't believe for a SECOND that Ilari could be slower than Homer or Hudler.

FissionFire 10-19-2012 01:42 PM

Speed isn't an issue in the offensive game. Where it comes into play is the transition and backchecking and defense in your own zone. There is a certain minimal level you need to at least be minimally effective in those roles without creating a mess. Ilari by most reports just didn't have that minimal level. The larger ice surfaces in the European game make for a much slower pace where high-skill, low-speed players are able to maximize their talents without being exposed to the same degree. That's why you see many players excel over there who just aren't quite up to snuff here. Alexei Morozov, Igor Grigorenko, Ilari Filppula, Fabian Brunnstrom, Pavel Brendl.....all examples of players who have NHL caliber skills but lack just enough speed that they can't quite make it happen in the smaller rinks and faster paced NHL game. Scouts can tell whether a guy is ready for NHL speed or not, that's what they are paid for. Ilari never got a crack in Detroit because they signed him knowing he wasn't an NHL level skater but hoping that over the course of a season he might develop into enough of one under their care to at least be Hulder-type fringe level skater but it just never happened.

FissionFire 10-19-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flowah (Post 55116793)
I wish they'd have given him like 3-5 games up, just to see.

I don't believe for a SECOND that Ilari could be slower than Homer or Hudler.

Hudler has much more skill than Ilari Filppula though so his minimal necessary skating level is a bit lower. IFlip and Huds were supposedly about the same in terms of skating, and we all saw how ineffective Jiri was in the backchecking and transition game most of he time and that was with elite-caliber skills.

Homer is a niche player who filled a very specific role and did it at a level at most 1 or 2 players in the league could match. His skating was atrocious, his speed nonexistant, and he was a nonfactor in transition and backchecking and a liability in his own zone due to his inability to effective cover the point or keep up with his check. He was a PP specialist and subpar ES 4th liner. If not for his niche he would not have been in the NHL. Filppula wasn't ever going to fill that role and this isn't a team looking for a PP specialist to play the half-boards when we already had Datsyuk and Hudler doing it very well.

RedWingsNow* 10-19-2012 01:53 PM

I'm curious. I play a lot of ball hockey on various sized rinks.

And to me, at 41 years old, I prefer small rinks because it nullifies the speed advantage the kids have over me

It seems to me that small rinks rewards smart players who pass well, or physical players who can exert force more often.

I don't play as much ice hockey, but I feel the same way there, too.

Even the explosive players, who can get to top speed fast, have less room to break away and get clear opportunities in a big rink. They might get past me, but not enough where I can't stick check them from behind.

FissionFire 10-19-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 55117977)
I'm curious. I play a lot of ball hockey on various sized rinks.

And to me, at 41 years old, I prefer small rinks because it nullifies the speed advantage the kids have over me

It seems to me that small rinks rewards smart players who pass well, or physical players who can exert force more often.

I don't play as much ice hockey, but I feel the same way there, too.

Even the explosive players, who can get to top speed fast, have less room to break away and get clear opportunities in a big rink. They might get past me, but not enough where I can't stick check them from behind.

You've answered yourself with the last sentence. Smaller rinks leave less time and space to make plays and decisions, so yes they do reward quick decisions and smart plays. However the nature of those smaller rinks also makes speed even more vital because having that extra quarter-to-half step is the difference between breaking through the defense or getting tied up along the boards. Every second matters even more. The lack of time and space also makes for faster pace where transitional play is critical and speed is one of the largest components to excelling in the transition game. Just like your example, it's rare a player is totally free where the defenseman can't try to harass them, but those situations also drawn penalties at a high frequency which is also a positive outcome. If you don't have the speed to keep up in the transitional game, you put your team at a big disadvantage and surrender potential odd-man breaks and late-man/trailer plays, both of which are prime scoring opportunities.

Flowah 10-19-2012 04:15 PM

Quote:

Hudler has much more skill than Ilari Filppula though so his minimal necessary skating level is a bit lower.
Hudler had "much more skill" than Ilari? Then why the hell are we bothering with this? All I've seen of Ilari are some European and AHL clips, but he seemed to be pretty good.

ChadS 10-19-2012 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flowah (Post 55121169)
Hudler had "much more skill" than Ilari? Then why the hell are we bothering with this? All I've seen of Ilari are some European and AHL clips, but he seemed to be pretty good.

Depends on what kind of skill we're talking about here but if it's pure offensive skills, stickhandling etc. Ilari might even be ahead of his brother in that. The difference that makes Val an NHL player right now is probably his skating and defensive game (and ~2 years age difference). I think Ilari's stickhandling, deking, passing, vision and maybe even his shot are above-average NHL level.

Flowah 10-19-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChadS (Post 55121959)
Depends on what kind of skill we're talking about here but if it's pure offensive skills, stickhandling etc. Ilari might even be ahead of his brother in that. The difference that makes Val an NHL player right now is probably his skating and defensive game (and ~2 years age difference). I think Ilari's stickhandling, deking, passing, vision and maybe even his shot are above-average NHL level.

This is kind of my point. If all those skills are above-average NHL level, and his skating was at least as good as Hudler's.... I mean the clips I've seen of him show some damn good vision and a pretty good hockey sense. I woulda loved to see him try out the NHL for a few games.

silkyjohnson50 10-19-2012 07:00 PM

Am I the only one around here who thinks Hudler's skill level is and has always been completely overrated by this fan base? People always talk about him like he's Pavel Datsyuk with the puck and I've personally never seen it. Skilled? Yeah. Elite skill? Not even close.

And to the main question, I was always a bit confused as to why Detroit never game him a call up as well.

Kentti 10-19-2012 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 (Post 55124611)
Am I the only one around here who thinks Hudler's skill level is and has always been completely overrated by this fan base? People always talk about him like he's Pavel Datsyuk with the puck and I've personally never seen it. Skilled? Yeah. Elite skill? Not even close.

And to the main question, I was always a bit confused as to why Detroit never game him a call up as well.

I remember having read that Detroit thought Ilari to be top-6 forward and because they had all top-6 spots covered, they didn't want to put him to 3rd or 4th line to play minimal minutes.

And this season he has become a better player. For example, last season he made 10+21=31 pts in 44 games and now he has played 14 games and is already at 8+12=20 pts.

RedWingsNow* 10-20-2012 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FissionFire (Post 55118465)
You've answered yourself with the last sentence. Smaller rinks leave less time and space to make plays and decisions, so yes they do reward quick decisions and smart plays. However the nature of those smaller rinks also makes speed even more vital because having that extra quarter-to-half step is the difference between breaking through the defense or getting tied up along the boards. Every second matters even more. The lack of time and space also makes for faster pace where transitional play is critical and speed is one of the largest components to excelling in the transition game. Just like your example, it's rare a player is totally free where the defenseman can't try to harass them, but those situations also drawn penalties at a high frequency which is also a positive outcome. If you don't have the speed to keep up in the transitional game, you put your team at a big disadvantage and surrender potential odd-man breaks and late-man/trailer plays, both of which are prime scoring opportunities.

Ah. I must still have great acceleration then. That's what it is.

:laugh:

crashman 10-20-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 55114745)
Or a career-best in points because he was playing aggressive offensive hockey with skilled linemates while paying less attention to his defense.

:rolleyes:

What's Hudler up to these days?


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