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-   -   Speculation: The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1274869)

ColePens 10-23-2012 06:03 PM

The All Purpose Luongo Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)
 
MOD WARNING:

I know we had a 30+ Lu thread prior to this one that went down hill after countless Admin/Mod warnings. Let's please stay civil and respect one another. If you do get an infraction, expect to be removed from the trade board altogether. There will be no further warnings.

Vankiller Whale 10-23-2012 06:21 PM

Bozak, Colborne, Frattin, Finn.

Let's do it.

Cogburn 10-23-2012 06:23 PM

Pick a star player: Heatley (1,2,3), Hossa (1,2), Nash, Pronger(1,2), Thornton, the original Lu to Van deal...2-4 pieces, not "star players" per se (I think Burns in the Heatley 2 or Hossa v. Heatley aren't super likely), but usually a couple of roster players that were ready to make an impact on the team recieving them, and a prospect or two that were in a position of need.

This is why I don't think Toronto is a great fit for a trading partner:

They need a top flight center, and only have one top forward that we'd want 1 for 1 (Kessel isn't being moved). (Edited so as not to sound like I'm ripping on the Leafs...top did originally read "stand out" which isn't true)

Their top defender doesn't fit our cap structure, and the others are either valued on future development or won't fit Vancouver's system very easily.

Toronto may or may not be rebuilding, and trading futures (the one area that I think they beat the Canucks team in) would be counter productive.

The pieces we are proposing aren't a great fit, and would only be small improvements to what our roster can muster now. I think both teams should look elsewhere.

Numbers 10-23-2012 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55225961)
Bozak, Colborne, Frattin, Finn.

Let's do it.

Ya that sounds good.

Bourne Endeavor 10-23-2012 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55225961)
Bozak, Colborne, Frattin, Finn.

Let's do it.

Could live with that, although I would prefer Kadri being involved.

frankthetank91 10-23-2012 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55225961)
Bozak, Colborne, Frattin, Finn.

Let's do it.

Continuing from the other thread, going to repost my proposal since it got some positive feedback:

One of Bozak or Connolly
One of Frattin or MacArthur
One of Colborne or a 2nd
One of Franson or Ashton


The majority of Nuck fans went with Bozak, Frattin, Colborne and Ashton option. While it sucks to be so close to an agreed deal, Finn is a no-go from the Leafs. Freshly drafted, lucky to get him where we got him, hometown kid(something we need more of) and one of our D-Man prospects who's a 2 way guy. I got a solid feeling about this kid, so much to the point where I would trade Kadri over Finn, I don't know if this is crazy but it's my opinion.

If you don't want Franson or Ashton someone else needs to be substituted, any other preferences?

604 10-23-2012 06:35 PM

Don't do it without Toronto's first (top 5 protected).

If I'm giving up the best player in the deal, I'd at least want the upside of a first to be there.

1st (protected)
Colbourne/Kadri
Ashton/Frattin
McArthur/Kulemin/Bozak

KeninsFan 10-23-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankthetank91 (Post 55226225)
Continuing from the other thread, going to repost my proposal since it got some positive feedback:

One of Bozak or Connolly
One of Frattin or MacArthur
One of Colborne or a 2nd
One of Franson or Ashton

That's a very good base.

I'm not a fan of either Colborne or Ashton.

The 2nd and Franson are equally useless to the Canucks IMO.

The Canucks would probably want a higher value asset coming back (1st/Kadri). For whatever reason the Leafs value their 1st (even with Luongo on their roster) quite a bit...

I in the Eye 10-23-2012 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankthetank91 (Post 55226225)
If you don't want Franson or Ashton someone else needs to be substituted, any other preferences?

Petrovic... Can you recycle anything to Florida to get Petrovic?

Vankiller Whale 10-23-2012 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankthetank91 (Post 55226225)
Continuing from the other thread, going to repost my proposal since it got some positive feedback:

One of Bozak or Connolly
One of Frattin or MacArthur
One of Colborne or a 2nd
One of Franson or Ashton


The majority of Nuck fans went with Bozak, Frattin, Colborne and Ashton option. While it sucks to be so close to an agreed deal, Finn is a no-go from the Leafs. Freshly drafted, lucky to get him where we got him, hometown kid(something we need more of) and one of our D-Man prospects who's a 2 way guy. I got a solid feeling about this kid, so much to the point where I would trade Kadri over Finn, I don't know if this is crazy but it's my opinion.

If you don't want Franson or Ashton someone else needs to be substituted, any other preferences?

Finn will be behind Gardiner, Rielly, Gunnarsson, Liles, Percy, and potentially Phaneuf on the left side D. He's probably very expendable from the Leafs POV, despite being a hometown kid.

My feeeling is that a player with a high ceiling has to be included as well, so Kadri or Finn or a conditional 1st.

LukeD 10-23-2012 06:43 PM

@Fan960Steinberg

"Conversation of Luongo to Edmonton...I don't like it for the Oilers myself. Contract doable now, hurts down the road in their scenario."

Don't know what to think about this...

EDIT: Dunno if this is just him thinking outloud, or if there's actual chatter about this.

Bourne Endeavor 10-23-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJOpus (Post 55226299)
Don't do it without Toronto's first (top 5 protected).

If I'm giving up the best player in the deal, I'd at least want the upside of a first to be there.

1st (protected)
Colbourne/Kadri
Ashton/Frattin
McArthur/Kulemin/Bozak

Bold, plus Connolly. The other three have a greater value to Toronto and if we got their first. I wouldn't be adverse to a salary dump. If not, change it to a second and add one of them.

Vankiller Whale 10-23-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeD (Post 55226497)
@Fan960Steinberg

"Conversation of Luongo to Edmonton...I don't like it for the Oilers myself. Contract doable now, hurts down the road in their scenario."

Don't know what to think about this...

It hurts us down the road more than the Oilers.

frankthetank91 10-23-2012 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55226385)
Finn will be behind Gardiner, Rielly, Gunnarsson, Liles, Percy, and potentially Phaneuf on the left side D. He's probably very expendable from the Leafs POV, despite being a hometown kid.

My feeeling is that a player with a high ceiling has to be included as well, so Kadri or Finn or a conditional 1st.

Ya we have a logjam on the left side, but I remember reading that Finn can play both sides comfortably, Phaneuf aswell obviously.

Rielly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Finn

is something I would hope to see.

I am not totally opposed to trading away Kadri, but in that case Frattin cannot be included in the package.

Bourne Endeavor 10-23-2012 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeD (Post 55226497)
@Fan960Steinberg

"Conversation of Luongo to Edmonton...I don't like it for the Oilers myself. Contract doable now, hurts down the road in their scenario."

Don't know what to think about this...

Hard to judge without a hypothetical trade. Gagner or Edmonton's first would be immediate priority in any deal though.

Vankiller Whale 10-23-2012 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankthetank91 (Post 55226529)
Ya we have a logjam on the left side, but I remember reading that Finn can play both sides comfortably, Phaneuf aswell obviously.

Rielly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Finn

is something I would hope to see.

I am not totally opposed to trading away Kadri, but in that case Frattin cannot be included in the package.


Kadri + Colborne + 1st round pick the next time you make the playoffs.

KeninsFan 10-23-2012 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55226621)
Kadri + Colborne + 1st round pick the next time you make the playoffs.

If we're receiving zero roster players back in the deal we might as well hold onto him until the TDL.

Vankiller Whale 10-23-2012 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kthsn (Post 55226689)
If we're receiving zero roster players back in the deal we might as well hold onto him until the TDL.

Kadri and Colborne can compete for roster spots as soon as this year, and if they don't work out flip futures for an upcoming UFA at the deadline.

KeninsFan 10-23-2012 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55226741)
Kadri and Colborne can compete for roster spots as soon as this year, and if they don't work out flip futures for an upcoming UFA at the deadline.

We can always flip futures at the deadline, Luongo trade or not.

Kadri/Colborne don't improve our roster this year.

frankthetank91 10-23-2012 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kthsn (Post 55226689)
If we're receiving zero roster players back in the deal we might as well hold onto him until the TDL.

Kadri, Colborne, Connolly and a 2nd is as far as i'd go. I'm sorry but protected or not I just CAN'T see Burke trading our 1st.

Kadri becomes your best prospect and theres a large chance he cracks the line up, possibly pushing out Raymond for now. Connolly would be the 3C or even 2C if Kesler is still injured when the season resumes(doubt it though). And Colborne and a 2nd are generous add-ins IMO.

KeninsFan 10-23-2012 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankthetank91 (Post 55226833)
Kadri, Colborne, Connolly and a 2nd is as far as i'd go. I'm sorry but protected or not I just CAN'T see Burke trading our 1st.

Too much salary and not the players Gillis likes.

Let's go back to Frattin + Bozak + prospect + pick

Is Percy available?

frankthetank91 10-23-2012 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kthsn (Post 55226909)
Too much salary and not the players Gillis likes.

Let's go back to Frattin + Bozak + prospect + pick

Is Percy available?

I'd say so, yes.

Vankiller Whale 10-23-2012 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankthetank91 (Post 55226833)
Kadri, Colborne, Connolly and a 2nd is as far as i'd go. I'm sorry but protected or not I just CAN'T see Burke trading our 1st.

Kadri becomes your best prospect and theres a large chance he cracks the line up, possibly pushing out Raymond for now. Connolly would be the 3C or even 2C if Kesler is still injured when the season resumes(doubt it though). And Colborne and a 2nd are generous add-ins IMO.

I could live with that, but would hold out for more.

I really want Finn/1st....Middle ground is abound, it seems, and hopefully Gillis is able to pry one or both out of TO.

Finn seems like an ideal consolation prize over Gardiner, imo.

KeninsFan 10-23-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankthetank91 (Post 55227005)
I'd say so, yes.

I think ultimately the deal will come down to the 1st round pick.

Gillis/Burke have probably decided that Gardiner/Rielly are off limits.

Burke gets fired if he deals the pick and TO misses the playoffs.
Burke gets fired if he sticks with Reimer/Scrivens and misses the playoffs.

Burke buys a year if he makes the playoffs while acquiring Luongo.
Burke buys a year if he makes the playoffs but deals the pick. <--Here is where most Leafs fans disagree.

Just IMO.

NFITO 10-23-2012 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55226741)
Kadri and Colborne can compete for roster spots as soon as this year, and if they don't work out flip futures for an upcoming UFA at the deadline.

acquiring players that can compete for roster spots but have never been regulars is something a team like the Oilers would do. A rebuilding team that wants to give their young players experience.

The Canucks are in win-now mode. They will try and maximize their chance to win within the next 2 years, while the Sedins are still under excellent contracts.

Because of that win-now mentality, along with the makeup of their current roster, I think a trade with Bozak-Colborne involved makes more sense than Kadri being included.

Bozak gives them a legitimate NHL caliber player to fill a top-9 role. Depending on how long the lockout lasts, he can cover for Kesler's injury, and then slide into the 3rd line spot once he's back. It gives the team a solid 1-2-3 to contend with this year (and 4 when you count Lapierre). While Bozak is on a 1yr contract, if he plays well (and his contract doesn't skyrocket) he can be retained, if not Colborne could step in the following year after spending some time with the club's development. Next year Bozak, Lapierre (and Malhotra) are all UFAs, all covering bottom-6 roles, while neither Kadri nor Schroeder are suited to fill that role (especially the way this team is setup).

Kadri I feel would be a wasted asset in this organization. He doesn't fit on this club in his natural role (top-6 center), while not being experienced enough to fill a key defensive 3rd line center role (sounds like a familiar situation, doesn't it?). If this organization was 3-4 years ahead (or behind) in their development right now, it could make more sense, but right now it's all about the Cup, and patience to develop talent at the NHL level will be limited, and on a team like that, who already has Henrik-Kesler down the middle, I don't see him being in a situation he can develop well in.

Bozak is one of a few Leafs players that would upgrade a spot on this team that could be available in a trade, and given that our biggest need right now is the #3 center position, he'd be a good fit in a trade IMO.

I also think that Kulemin is a player that upgrades our current top-9, though the need for a center is higher at this point.


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