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-   -   Do you see another Redden/Chara situation brewing? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1275471)

internetdotcom 10-25-2012 08:08 AM

Do you see another Redden/Chara situation brewing?
 
When I look at EK and Cowen, I can't help but think back to when we had Redden and Chara, and dread us being in a similar situation down the line where the cap (assuming it still exists) dictates us having to choose between them. Some questions :

1 - Do you see this becoming an issue a few years down the line?
2 - If so, who do you think we keep at that time, Karlsson (Redden) or Cowen (Chara)?
3 - Who would you keep in a few years, assuming Cowen and EK are of similar value at the time, and we can only keep one, and that trading one is not an option?

Leave Spezza Alone 10-25-2012 08:12 AM

Cowen will not be in Karlsson's league. :laugh:

Taoiseach 10-25-2012 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg (Post 55267837)
Cowen will not be in Karlsson's league. :laugh:

Now, now. Let's say he is.

I would like to think that we've learnt our lesson, and will do what it takes to keep both.

derriko 10-25-2012 08:20 AM

Hmmm...Im Cowens biggest fan, but theres a 5-10% chance he becomes Chara. On the other hand, you have a player about as close to a generational defenseman as weve ever had. Not a tough decision if you ask me, but I dont believe this scenario would ever happen anyways. Also, Cowen doesnt come off as the type to demand captaincy or he'll flee.

Minister of Offence 10-25-2012 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg (Post 55267837)
Cowen will not be in Karlsson's league. :laugh:

Was Redden actually in Chara's league? I don't think we'll have an issue or anything but I'm not sure the answer to that question is easy either way.

Cowen's got a chance to become a really really high end 40 point Dman while being one of the games forces in the defensive end. A chance I said.

tony d 10-25-2012 08:36 AM

Can't see another Redden/Chara situation happening here. I think we find a way to re-sign Cowen.

John Holmes* 10-25-2012 08:56 AM

Let's make sure our GM doesn't sign and trade Cowen's best friend first.

That might help.

In any case, if it ever comes down to a choice between the two, there is really no choice at all. Karlsson is our offense.

Holdurbreathe 10-25-2012 08:57 AM

The Redden/Chara senario had as much or more to do with other circumstances as it did with the cap being introduced.

Today, cap planning is part of daily life for every NHL team, so if Karlsson and Cowen are deemed to be key to the Sens going forward they will be signed.

BK201 10-25-2012 09:02 AM

This lock out sucks.

Holdurbreathe 10-25-2012 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Holmes (Post 55268577)
Let's make sure our GM doesn't sign and trade Cowen's best friend first.

That might help.

In any case, if it ever comes down to a choice between the two, there is really no choice at all. Karlsson is our offense.

Agreed, the Hossa move was brutal.

Today news isn't what any decision will be made on in the future.

Holdurbreathe 10-25-2012 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minister of Offence (Post 55268179)
Was Redden actually in Chara's league? I don't think we'll have an issue or anything but I'm not sure the answer to that question is easy either way.

Cowen's got a chance to become a really really high end 40 point Dman while being one of the games forces in the defensive end. A chance I said.

Cowen has all the tools to become an outstanding D-man, he just needs time and confidence to grow.

John Holmes* 10-25-2012 09:15 AM

We need them both.

Qward 10-25-2012 09:22 AM

just dont have their contracts up at the same time.

internetdotcom 10-25-2012 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg (Post 55267837)
Cowen will not be in Karlsson's league. :laugh:

First, you don't know that. Cowen will improve, and as much as I love him, EK will not have a season like last every year.

Second, the premise of the thread is that they are of similar value.

If you aren't going to contribute to the thread, don't post.

Holdurbreathe 10-25-2012 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derriko (Post 55267981)
Hmmm...Im Cowens biggest fan, but theres a 5-10% chance he becomes Chara. On the other hand, you have a player about as close to a generational defenseman as weve ever had. Not a tough decision if you ask me, but I dont believe this scenario would ever happen anyways. Also, Cowen doesnt come off as the type to demand captaincy or he'll flee.

Cowen is way ahead of where Chara was at 20 years old, six years ahead of Chara's development curve.

Chara didn't really start to show his potential until 2002 with Ottawa, at 26 years of age.

So it is way to soon to project where Cowen will be in 5 years, in comparison to Chara or any other veteran NHL D-man.

However watching Cowen from the year he was drafted, up to and including his play this year, the Sens were extremely fortunate the Leafs took Kadri.

IMO Cowen will become every bit as important to the Sens as Karlsson, just not in the same manner.

NyQuil 10-25-2012 10:56 AM

Contracts, like it or lump it, are often production based.

The difference in offensive production between Redden and Chara by the time that contract year had come up wasn't significant enough to warrant two separate tiers of salary.

I can't see Cowen ever getting into Karlsson's league in terms of his offensive contribution.

Defensive stalwarts have their place, but thankfully, they are usually undervalued and therefore underpaid.

That doesn't mean we won't ever get into some kind of salary situation. But I don't think it will be an issue where we have two guys looking for the same money.

Icelevel 10-25-2012 11:01 AM

I'd like to think everyone learned from that situation.

obviously we let the wrong guy go and kept the puck moving more offensive guy. Should have kept the big guy. Now we know.
Trade karlsson now while his value is high. :sarcasm:

Germz 10-25-2012 11:06 AM

NyQuil is right. Don't worry about it. This is the ultimate "cross that bridge if/when we come to it" type of question. Cowen will make good money eventually, but he'd have to get pretty damn good offensively to make Karlsson money.

The only thing we can do at this point, as Qward said, is to make sure Cowen's contract expires at a different time when we lock him up. And Murray has shown a pretty good ability to stagger contracts so far.

derriko 10-25-2012 11:27 AM

Say Cowen reaches like 80% potential. We have EK at 6.5, and Cowen at somewhere around 5ish, which I would say is the going rate for a #1 and #2. Thats 11.5 million. Comparables would be Keith / Searbrook who make 11.8 million combined. Chicago has no problem filling out the rest of their d corps with (decent) players. Hjalmarsson and Oduya both make over 3 mil, and Montador and Roszival both are over 2. Even with factoring in that were not really a cap team anymore, Chicago has a lot of high paid forwards that we don't have currently to even out the difference. Long story short, were fine.

Marvelous Manked 10-25-2012 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe (Post 55268583)
The Redden/Chara senario had as much or more to do with other circumstances as it did with the cap being introduced.

Today, cap planning is part of daily life for every NHL team, so if Karlsson and Cowen are deemed to be key to the Sens going forward they will be signed.

Great post.

Stylizer1 10-25-2012 06:07 PM

Cowen seems to me that he is the type of guy that if he doesn't get what he wants he might not tow the company line.

OmniSens 10-25-2012 06:16 PM

John Muckler isn't the current GM. No problem :nod:

GK 10-25-2012 06:18 PM

B. Murrays last words to Tim before he retires will probably be "sign them both", as he fades off to South Florida.

Qward 10-25-2012 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stylizer1 (Post 55281973)
Cowen seems to me that he is the type of guy that if he doesn't get what he wants he might not tow the company line.

This is based off of?

John Holmes* 10-25-2012 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qward (Post 55282307)
This is based off of?

All the trouble Cowen causes?


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