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LadyStanley 10-25-2012 11:25 PM

Ville de Québec Part VII: Si J'avais les ailes d'un ange
 
Continue from: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1208105

dennilfloss 10-25-2012 11:46 PM

Quebec City Part VII: Si J'avais les ailes d'un ange...



:yo:

Stanley Cup 10-26-2012 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennilfloss (Post 55290859)
Quebec City Part VII: Si J'avais les ailes d'un ange...



:yo:

How about

Quebec City Part VII: Décembre revient

madhi19 10-26-2012 12:29 AM

Or Québec City: Payback is a b!tch!

Kimota 10-26-2012 12:52 AM

Quote:

I think you're wrong. It also matters that the symbol represents the team and the town in some way. It can do that and also look good, the way Detroit's does.

I think you restrict yourself too little. For a symbol to represent, the undiscerning fan still needs to be able to approximately understand it.

If you've ever studied heraldry, you realize pretty quickly that despite the fact that some heraldry symbols are very farfetched, they all have a logic and a meaning to them, and every symbol in a coat of arms represented something about either who the knight wearing the coat was, or what he had done, or where he came from.

That tradition of heraldry is actually passed down to us in, among other things, the symbols of our sports teams, and the symbols should for that reason if for no other, abide by that convention. And even at that, since we don't study heraldry anymore, being too fanciful will hurt your efforts to get that symbol to resonate with the modern layman and leave a confusion of meanings that is against what a symbol is about..
The Expos logo is one of the best in sports, even if people don't know what it means. When people see it, they think Expos. And most of the time symbols act on the brain on some level other than "having clear letters". Again you restrict your line of thought to too much simplicity. You're like a Republican. :D

Dojji* 10-26-2012 08:55 AM

Which is fine because while I'm not a Republican, I am right-leaning.

Remember that one of the symbols I'm praising is DRW. That's nothing if not abstract, but it also nails the team and town identity so thoroughly that it earns top marks anyway.

I think some of these symbol designers work too hard, and I think the Quebec teams are sometimes at the top of the list. The exception seems to be the Canadiens, their symbol at least bears a direct connection to what the team is and has been, that's clear to anyone with at least some awareness.

Maybe that's the problem with the Expos and Nords symbols. The team had so little history and the town wasn't that iconic outside Quebec (by which all I mean is simply that it's not one of the handful of North American cities that are on the tip of everyone's tongue), so the inventor of the team symbol didn't have a lot to work with yet.

That said, QC and Montreal are beautiful cities in their own right and there's a ton of history there. They really should be able to do better at capturing it. The rich history of QC is why I think the fleur de lis is an absolute must as at least part of the symbol of any new QC team. It's the only identifying symbol I know of associated directly with Quebec and only with Quebec.

dennilfloss 10-26-2012 09:31 AM

These two logos (Nordiques and Expos) were designed primarily for the local fans, who would identify with it, with them and their taste and cultural/historical appreciation in mind. We don't care much about the logos of other teams except on a somewhat aesthetic level. The logo of another team means little or nothing to us (They are the enemy. Who cares if their logo is ugly? That's just one more reason to beat them. ;)), whereas we feel a strong sense of tribal belonging (appartenance in French) with our own logo. I am sure that the same reasoning will be at work this time and the original logo kept, simply because Nordiques fans identify with it and the vast majority love it. It has deep meaning and emotional weight for us.

powerstuck 10-26-2012 09:50 AM

That Quebec-Montreal series jerseys are owned by Peladeau, if Nordiques come back in very short term notice and there is a need to get a quick jersey (and not use the NHL one) he probably would turn to those pretty quickly.
http://media.legrandclub.rds.ca/imag...3408_large.png

For my part, i'm liking a modern version with the original design :

http://www.cours.fse.ulaval.ca/ten-2...goNordique.gif

You reduce the original's logo size so it's not that big, yet you go with the teams and city name around it as some NHL teams already have.


http://www.mleye.com/images/florida-panthers-logo.png

http://twominutesforchecking.files.w...wild-logo3.gif

http://www.karnskatingdynamics.com/w...BLUES_LOGO.gif

Other teams like Jets, Sabres and Oilers have a logo incorporated in a circle.

And if the Nordique N is outdated and poorly aged, what about this :

http://www.nhlhockeyarenas.com/image...nders-Logo.gif

mzappa 10-26-2012 09:55 AM

Can't wait for a Nordiques-Jets game. How fun will that be?!:handclap:

DJ Omnimaga 10-26-2012 11:37 PM

The first game would be nice against the Jets or the Habs. However I worry that if it's the Habs that half of the crowd will be Habs fans who made the 2.5 hours drive who can't get tickets for the Bell Center and it won't be as loud as the first Jets game. Also if I was the NHL I would wait a few weeks before having an Habs vs Nords game, just to make people wait a little while longer for the Battle of Quebec to resume.

Another idea I had was Rangers vs Nords, since that's the team against which the Nords died. Or the Colorado Avalanche (original franchise) or Vancouver (the easternmost Canadian team vs the westernmost one)

Also if the crowd happens to be louder than the Jets first game, I pity the fans who will sit at the back of sections 207 to 215 lol. Although those seats are terrible (obstructed scoreboard view and some pillars), that gotta be by far the loudest places at Le Colisée, because the crowd noise bounces from the overhanging upper decks back into the crowd. Earplugs will probably be a must, lol. I went to a Remparts playoffs game in that section where they won Game 7 vs Cape-Breton and I had troubles hearing for the next days.

tp71 10-27-2012 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerstuck (Post 55295925)
That Quebec-Montreal series jerseys are owned by Peladeau, if Nordiques come back in very short term notice and there is a need to get a quick jersey (and not use the NHL one) he probably would turn to those pretty quickly.
http://media.legrandclub.rds.ca/imag...3408_large.png

For my part, i'm liking a modern version with the original design :

Reminds me a lot of:

http://www.icethetics.info/storage/b...=1343931603410

Here's a nice black and white photo:

http://cdn.nhl.com/mapleleafs/bc/ima...cher_photo.jpg

Kimota 10-27-2012 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dojji (Post 55295077)
Which is fine because while I'm not a Republican, I am right-leaning.

Remember that one of the symbols I'm praising is DRW. That's nothing if not abstract, but it also nails the team and town identity so thoroughly that it earns top marks anyway.

I think some of these symbol designers work too hard, and I think the Quebec teams are sometimes at the top of the list. The exception seems to be the Canadiens, their symbol at least bears a direct connection to what the team is and has been, that's clear to anyone with at least some awareness.

Maybe that's the problem with the Expos and Nords symbols. The team had so little history and the town wasn't that iconic outside Quebec (by which all I mean is simply that it's not one of the handful of North American cities that are on the tip of everyone's tongue), so the inventor of the team symbol didn't have a lot to work with yet.

That said, QC and Montreal are beautiful cities in their own right and there's a ton of history there. They really should be able to do better at capturing it. The rich history of QC is why I think the fleur de lis is an absolute must as at least part of the symbol of any new QC team. It's the only identifying symbol I know of associated directly with Quebec and only with Quebec.

The thing is for example the Nords logo is not particularly good but it has become too iconic(for their fans) to reject. They would have to do a third jersey for then to do something different.

calmdown 10-27-2012 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimota (Post 55317233)
The thing is for example the Nords logo is not particularly good but it has become too iconic(for their fans) to reject. They would have to do a third jersey for then to do something different.

I remember about a year ago... Visiting my daughter in Porters Lake in NS I brought a Nordiques jersey for my grand-son. He was happy but when we had to go to the Mic Mac Mall, his sister (5 YO) absolutly want to wear it to go shopping... Comments from other customers... " Look, she's cute and she's a Nordique " So even in a not that big mall 1,000 km away ordinary people know what that logo mean. :)

Buck Aki Berg 10-27-2012 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimota (Post 55317233)
The thing is for example the Nords logo is not particularly good but it has become too iconic(for their fans) to reject.

I'm not disagreeing, but remember the same thing was said about the Jets - there were constant refrains of "It wouldn't be the saaaaame!!" whenever talks began about the possibility of a new logo. But TNSE did their homework and hit a home run.

Obviously, Quebecers are a little more identity-conscious than Manitobans, so I'm not exactly comparing apples to apples here, but I do think that a well-thought-out, poignant logo that appeals to the city's/province's culture, history, and identity (hockey and/or otherwise) would be an enormous success.

Shawa666 10-27-2012 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg (Post 55318109)
I'm not disagreeing, but remember the same thing was said about the Jets - there were constant refrains of "It wouldn't be the saaaaame!!" whenever talks began about the possibility of a new logo. But TNSE did their homework and hit a home run.

Obviously, Quebecers are a little more identity-conscious than Manitobans, so I'm not exactly comparing apples to apples here, but I do think that a well-thought-out, poignant logo that appeals to the city's/province's culture, history, and identity (hockey and/or otherwise) would be an enormous success.

The thing here is that the Jets' ownership wanted nothing to do with the Jets identity. Peladeau however has been seen wearing Nordiques apparel publicly numerous times. I think he plans to bring back the name and logo.

gravyleaves 10-27-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmdown (Post 55317819)
So even in a not that big mall 1,000 km away ordinary people know what that logo mean. :)

Heck, even in a southern city over 2000km away pretty much every time I wear my Nordiques shirt or hat someone recognizes it.

Holden Caulfield 10-27-2012 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyleaves (Post 55319895)
Heck, even in a southern city over 2000km away pretty much every time I wear my Nordiques shirt or hat someone recognizes it.

Back in 2011 (pre-Jets 2.0) I was wearing a Jets shirt in London, England and I had somebody come up to me and say "so you think you guys in Winnipeg will get a team back soon?" :laugh:

So yeah, amazing how recognizable brands like Nordiques and Jets can be long after the team is gone :laugh:

DJ Omnimaga 10-27-2012 01:54 PM

Since the Avalanche does not honor previous Nords records, it would be nice once the Nords returns if they did like the Quebec Remparts and Cleveland Browns and claimed records of the previous franchise, then give original jets records back to Winnipeg (assuming Phoenix allows Quebec to do so and assuming that the Coyotes move to Quebec). Preferably give them back the whiteout as well and do a blue-out or sea of blue like the Impact soccer team fans.

Buck Aki Berg 10-27-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Omnimaga (Post 55322833)
Since the Avalanche does not honor previous Nords records, it would be nice once the Nords returns if they did like the Quebec Remparts and Cleveland Browns and claimed records of the previous franchise, then give original jets records back to Winnipeg (assuming Phoenix allows Quebec to do so and assuming that the Coyotes move to Quebec). Preferably give them back the whiteout as well and do a blue-out or sea of blue like the Impact soccer team fans.

Any teams' fans can wear white any time they want - there's no 'claim' to that, as it's not something anybody can own. That's not a just-Winnipeg thing, nor did they lose the right to do so when the Jets left.

Kimota 10-28-2012 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmdown (Post 55317819)
I remember about a year ago... Visiting my daughter in Porters Lake in NS I brought a Nordiques jersey for my grand-son. He was happy but when we had to go to the Mic Mac Mall, his sister (5 YO) absolutly want to wear it to go shopping... Comments from other customers... " Look, she's cute and she's a Nordique " So even in a not that big mall 1,000 km away ordinary people know what that logo mean. :)

That's a cool story, dude. :yo:

Kimota 10-28-2012 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg (Post 55318109)
I'm not disagreeing, but remember the same thing was said about the Jets - there were constant refrains of "It wouldn't be the saaaaame!!" whenever talks began about the possibility of a new logo. But TNSE did their homework and hit a home run.

Obviously, Quebecers are a little more identity-conscious than Manitobans, so I'm not exactly comparing apples to apples here, but I do think that a well-thought-out, poignant logo that appeals to the city's/province's culture, history, and identity (hockey and/or otherwise) would be an enormous success.

I still want the real Jets jerseys back. :D

DJ Omnimaga 10-28-2012 06:04 PM

I wonder if Quebecor has a strong presence outside Quebec on the TV market? I know they have Sun News but I was wondering if they could try to increase a potential Nords team audience by broadcasting games in English on a TV channel or something? Do you think that would be popular in the Maritimes? Or do you think those people would stick to the Habs/Bruins/etc?

calmdown 10-28-2012 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Omnimaga (Post 55354561)
I wonder if Quebecor has a strong presence outside Quebec on the TV market? I know they have Sun News but I was wondering if they could try to increase a potential Nords team audience by broadcasting games in English on a TV channel or something? Do you think that would be popular in the Maritimes? Or do you think those people would stick to the Habs/Bruins/etc?

Good question DJ, I just talk with my daugter yesterday (in Halifax) and told her about my post...

Originally Posted by calmdown
I remember about a year ago... Visiting my daughter in Porters Lake in NS I brought a Nordiques jersey for my grand-son. He was happy but when we had to go to the Mic Mac Mall, his sister (5 YO) absolutly want to wear it to go shopping... Comments from other customers... " Look, she's cute and she's a Nordique " So even in a not that big mall 1,000 km away ordinary people know what that logo mean.

She told me that for a while there is a lot more Nordique articles in stores there, jerseys, caps, etc. And people talking about Quebec is going to have Nordiques back.

And for the maritime point of view, New-Brunswick it the only real bilangual province in Canada, so no problem there and as I experienced Nova-Scotia even have french schools ;-)

By the way, I often watch sports on Internet and it is on spanish channels or from Norway or Sweeden or East-Europa... I don't ...... understand a word but I can appreciate the game

From my point of view, if fans of Quebec can watch football or baseball on english channels, anglophone peoples are not stupid, they can watch hockey on a francophone tv channel. And why not looking on tv while listening on an english radio station :nod:

I quite often watch sports on Internet, (soccer, tennis, olympics) sometime in spanish, or television comimg from Norway, Sweeden or other north countries or even east-europa... I don't need to understand the language to appreciate the game and I like seeing those advertisings... Most often that we use here :laugh:

Buck Aki Berg 10-29-2012 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmdown (Post 55358059)
From my point of view, if fans of Quebec can watch football or baseball on english channels, anglophone peoples are not stupid, they can watch hockey on a francophone tv channel. And why not looking on tv while listening on an english radio station :nod:

It's a little different. Because it's so easy for anglophones to avoid accidentally hearing some French, and because it's damn near impossible to escape the anglophone influence, just about any francophone can follow along with an English broadcast, while most anglophones wouldn't be able to pick out more than two or three words in a French broadcast (even now, having studied French rather intensively for three years, I find it extremely difficult to tune my ears to French television because they talk so fast, and just the flowing nature of the language that makes it difficult to tell where one word ends and the next begins).

Obviously that doesn't make a difference for those who are sitting and watching the game, but if you're doing stuff, and have the game on in the background, it's impossible to follow along.

Stanley Cup 10-29-2012 11:14 AM

They have some kind of joint venture with RSN. May not broadcast all games but I can see some be broadcast on it.


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