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-   -   Round 2 Voting Results (HOH Top Goaltenders) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1275915)

TheDevilMadeMe 10-26-2012 01:16 AM

Round 2 Voting Results (HOH Top Goaltenders)
 
Here are the results of vote 1. There were 24 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th
Patrick Roy149101031000
Dominik Hasek14611840001
Jacques Plante12125122300
Glenn Hall8710311441
Martin Brodeur690025944
Terry Sawchuk6301054113
Ken Dryden3700004515

Here are the results of vote 2. There were 25 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal5th6th7th8th9th10th11th12thN/R
Terry Sawchuk 183 11 11 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
Martin Brodeur 176 11 8 3 2 1 0 0 0 0
Ken Dryden 141 1 5 11 3 3 1 1 0 0
Vladislav Tretiak 112 2 1 4 10 1 2 2 1 2
Frank Brimsek 100 0 0 4 7 8 1 2 2 1
Turk Broda 53 0 0 0 2 4 4 5 5 5
Bill Durnan 51 0 0 0 0 4 8 4 3 6
Clint Benedict 49 0 0 0 1 3 7 1 9 4
Bernie Parent 35 0 0 0 0 1 2 10 5 7

Here are the results of vote 3. There were 23 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal9th10th11th12th13th14th15th16thN/R
Frank Brimsek1591351111100
Georges Vezina101231813212
Charlie Gardiner95147110324
Clint Benedict94151253222
Turk Broda87413240045
Bill Durnan87135221234
Bernie Parent59011413454
Ed Belfour53012024626
Tony Esposito50001342238
Johnny Bower431010261111

Here are the results of vote 4. There were 24 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal13th14th15th16th17th18th19th20thN/R
Turk Broda1451230131400
Bill Durnan141573421110
Ed Belfour110353411223
Tony Esposito102316222350
Bernie Parent97032536410
Roy Worters86033335214
Johnny Bower76004272162
Jiri Holecek74123312336
Tiny Thompson190000213216
Billy Smith140000031317

Here are the results of vote 5. There were 21 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal17th18th19th20th21st22nd23rd24thN/R
Bernie Parent136568100010
Roy Worters135925130100
Johnny Bower115362341110
Jiri Holecek92251412213
Tiny Thompson57002252334
Hugh Lehman54110243127
George Hainsworth51111401157
Grant Fuhr40000127308
Billy Smith300012113211
Gump Worsley260010034310
Harry Lumley190001112313

Here are the results of vote 6. There were 23 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal21st22nd23rd24th25th26th27th28thN/R
Tiny Thompson1383103321001
George Hainsworth125724223120
Billy Smith112234542201
Hugh Lehman111812132213
Grant Fuhr102236222051
Gump Worsley95112753222
Hap Holmes54011215445
Harry Lumley49020122565
Ed Giacomin240010213214
Rogie Vachon150000024314

Here are the results of vote 7. There were 21 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal25th26th27th28th29th30th31st32ndN/R
Grant Fuhr1381401220101
Gump Worsley108434321211
Harry Lumley98145321302
Chuck Rayner74062113026
Hap Holmes67041501217
Ed Giacomin59202061208
Curtis Joseph51030025317
Tom Barrasso48003210645
Rogie Vachon46011224038
Alec Connell360011340111
John Vanbiesbrouck190011001612
Tim Thomas110001011117
Gerry Cheevers10000000120

Here are the results of vote 8. There were 21 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal29th30th31st32nd33rd34th35th36thN/R
Tom Barrasso109631144011
Hap Holmes103623122203
Curtis Joseph93352211214
Ed Giacomin81235101225
Rogie Vachon72103533222
Alec Connell63213200229
John Vanbiesbrouck59101432316
Percy LeSueur480212311110
Roberto Luongo45011124318
Tim Thomas280102111213
Lorne Chabot220200100018
Gerry Cheevers120010110315
Vladimir Dzurilla90100001019
Mike Liut80000011316
Dave Kerr40000001218

Here are the results of vote 9. There were 21 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal33rd34th35th36th37th38th39th40thN/R
Rogie Vachon118362262000
John Vanbiesbrouck107364210113
Percy LeSueur94342321123
Roberto Luongo93304622013
Alec Connell77331023333
Henrik Lundqvist67113331126
Tim Thomas56211122327
Lorne Chabot292010020115
Gerry Cheevers260012013113
Mike Liut230002031213
Mike Richter170020011017
Al Rollins140000211116
Dave Kerr140000112314
Vladimir Dzurilla121000002018
Miikka Kiprusoff90100011216

Here are the results of vote 10. There were 21 out of a possible 27 voters this round.

PlayerTotal37th38th39th40th40st42nd43rd44thN/R
Tim Thomas109543320004
Henrik Lundqvist106642301005
Alec Connell103515221212
Mike Liut77142302405
Gerry Cheevers63024113154
Al Rollins52011323317
Miikka Kiprusoff46010136208
Dave Kerr43002141238
Lorne Chabot402101210113
John Ross Roach250000224310
Vladimir Dzurilla251001111313
Mike Vernon241020100017
Mike Richter190200100117
Riley Hern140101000217
Ron Hextall100001002117

tarheelhockey 10-26-2012 01:22 AM

I'm not as surprised to see Roy over Hasek as I would have been two weeks ago -- some compelling arguments were made in the discussion thread. But I can't say I agree with it.

For me, the top-2 were clear cut and Dryden was the clear #7. Those middle 4 drove me crazy, but I see the group was clear on Plante at #3.

Sawchuk at #6 seems wrong somehow, but that's where I had him too. Again something I wouldn't have considered before the discussion thread.

TheDevilMadeMe 10-26-2012 01:25 AM

Things have sure changed since the 2008 and 2009 top 100 lists, when Plante, Hasek, and Roy were basically tossups (I think Plante actually finished slightly ahead of the other two in 2008).

Dreakmur 10-26-2012 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheelhockey (Post 55292465)
I'm not as surprised to see Roy over Hasek as I would have been two weeks ago -- some compelling arguments were made in the discussion thread. But I can't say I agree with it.

For me, the top-2 were clear cut and Dryden was the clear #7. Those middle 4 drove me crazy, but I see the group was clear on Plante at #3.

Sawchuk at #6 seems wrong somehow, but that's where I had him too. Again something I wouldn't have considered before the discussion thread.

That 7th place vote for Hasek seems really out of whack, and that's what cost him the 1st slot. Regardless, Roy and Hasek came out with pretty much a tie, which I think is the correct result.

tarheelhockey 10-26-2012 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreakmur (Post 55292529)
That 7th place vote for Hasek seems really out of whack, and that's what cost him the 1st slot.

I actually deleted a comment I had typed about that vote. I can't see how Hasek could possibly be the weakest goalie in that group.

But, to be diplomatic, the fact that a well-informed voter holds such an opinion suggests that there is a rational case to be made defending it, and that alone could be considered a sort of tiebreaker between Hasek and Roy.

I just hope it's really a rational argument.

TheDevilMadeMe 10-26-2012 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreakmur (Post 55292529)
That 7th place vote for Hasek seems really out of whack, and that's what cost him the 1st slot. Regardless, Roy and Hasek came out with pretty much a tie, which I think is the correct result.

If you remove the lowest vote for each of Roy and Hasek, they would have been exactly tied. Probably for the best that didn't happen. :laugh:

tarheelhockey 10-26-2012 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 55292609)
If you remove the lowest vote for each of Roy and Hasek, they would have been exactly tied. Probably for the best that didn't happen. :laugh:

That's pretty crazy.

So the takeaway is that they're effectively tied, but the Hasek detractors have a stronger case than the Roy detractors?

Ohashi_Jouzu 10-26-2012 03:57 AM

Hasek... 7th place vote... lol. Sorry, but lol. I'm not as willing as tarheelhockey to believe that a well-informed poster cast that vote in "good faith", but whaddayagonnado. Not surprised that it was that close, or that Hasek got more #1 votes. I was kinda surprised to see both Plante and Hall surpass Brodeur, but about halfway through the previous discussion thread I started leaning that way, too. I personally hold Dryden in higher regard than Sawchuk, but that's possibly a bit of Habs homer in me, not factoring in the dynasty effect on his numbers as much as some, and his role in winning the Cup on my exact day of birth (the knowledge of which began my Habs fandom). :)

MXD 10-26-2012 05:27 AM

I totally had Sawchuck 7th. For me, he's set behind Dryden, and possibly not even a lock to be in the Top-3 in Vote 2.

Martin Brodeur "gained" some ground from previous installments, and that's the way to go (I think). Brodeur will confortably be 1st in my list in the next round

As for the results, while I had Roy ahead of Hasek, I can't really justify having Hasek 7th. Or below 3rd. This said, the same can be said (to a lesser extent, but still) about Roy being 4th.

Take out those outliers, and they're tied.

BenchBrawl 10-26-2012 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 55292391)
Here are the results of vote 1. There were 24 out of a possible 27 voters this round

PlayerTotal1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th
Patrick Roy149101031000
Dominik Hasek14611840001
Jacques Plante12125122300
Glenn Hall8710311441
Martin Brodeur690025944
Terry Sawchuk6301054113
Ken Dryden3700004515

Roy 1st , wonderful turn of event :)

MadArcand 10-26-2012 05:49 AM

That Hasek #7 vote is epic troll job. Epic.

And sad.

Jabroni 10-26-2012 07:00 AM

Do you guys think that Roy and Hasek are the clear cut 1-2? Also, do you think they are interchangeable, being that the voting was so close?

overpass 10-26-2012 07:14 AM

I guess one might rate Hasek 7th if one was extremely risk-averse when it comes to goaltending.

In any case I think the story here is that Roy and Hasek were effectively tied and in a position where one vote could make a difference. Roy will be ranked first on the list and Hasek second, and rightly so, but the story from the vote totals is that they're the top two and either would be a good pick for the top spot.

Jabroni 10-26-2012 07:27 AM

Anyone else surprised to see Plante at 3? I wasn't expecting that.

Mike Farkas 10-26-2012 07:39 AM

I don't have a problem with Roy being ahead of Hasek, as I believe it was fairly well determined that Roy and Hasek are the best two goalies of all-time, in whatever order (not that there's no case at all for the others). I think Roy's 4th place vote and Hasek's 7th place vote were both political votes and it's a shame that they took place. Regardless of what would happen (they would tie, Hasek would win on 1st place votes, I presume).

I'm not totally surprised to see Plante in 3rd, but I thought Hall would have gained more significant ground on him.

And good for Brodeur, hopefully he gets his due in the next round. I think those road save pct. figures were very good for him as he's been criminally underrated here for some time now I feel. Mostly because a lot of people don't quite understand the full effects of coaching on the game and how to apply it to different circumstances. Certainly not an easy thing to do in its own right, much less in context of the project.

kmad 10-26-2012 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheelhockey (Post 55292633)
So the takeaway is that they're effectively tied, but the Hasek detractors have a stronger case than the Roy detractors?

Or the Hasek detractors are more petty than Roy detractors.

Canadiens1958 10-26-2012 08:25 AM

1-3 Did Not Vote
 
Totally overlooked is that 1-3 of the eligible voters simply did not vote, which influences the rankings more, 7 - 21 potential votes.

BraveCanadian 10-26-2012 08:35 AM

A 7th place vote for Hasek would be pretty tough to justify imo.

That being said, I do think he and Roy are practically neck and neck and that is at least reflected. I think I would still pick Roy if someone pointed a gun to my head but it is damn close.

Interesting how Sawchuk's reputation seems to be falling..

MadArcand 10-26-2012 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Farkas (Post 55294233)
I don't have a problem with Roy being ahead of Hasek, as I believe it was fairly well determined that Roy and Hasek are the best two goalies of all-time, in whatever order (not that there's no case at all for the others). I think Roy's 4th place vote and Hasek's 7th place vote were both political votes and it's a shame that they took place. Regardless of what would happen (they would tie, Hasek would win on 1st place votes, I presume).

I don't think Roy 4th is that much of stretch. I had him 4th in my original list, however the discussion and arguments convinced me I was underrating him/overrating Plante and Sawchuk, so I moved him up to 2nd.

But 7th? For either of them, that's just absurd.

Trebek 10-26-2012 10:08 AM

I must have been extremely convinced by the discussions in the thread, because my submitted top seven were in the exact same order as the consensus. :laugh:

I'd love to hear from whoever chose Hasek #7 - not to critique, but to hear their reasoning.

Hawkey Town 18 10-26-2012 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 55292609)
If you remove the lowest vote for each of Roy and Hasek, they would have been exactly tied. Probably for the best that didn't happen. :laugh:

It's too late now, but it might not be a bad idea to think about throwing out the one highest and one lowest vote for each player in future projects.

pluppe 10-26-2012 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 (Post 55294647)
Totally overlooked is that 1-3 of the eligible voters simply did not vote, which influences the rankings more, 7 - 21 potential votes.

No, the probable thing is that they would vote similarly to all the others so the #7 vote for Hasek would still have a lot to explain, donīt you think?

FofH 10-26-2012 11:09 AM

I have been following this discussion each day and was waiting eagerly for the results. The results are interesting, however that Hasek 7th place vote jumps so badly from there that it seems to be a political one. And because of that It kind of leaves a bad taste and ruins the effort what people have put on this :( Of course everyone has their own opinion, but still... c'mon

overpass 10-26-2012 11:53 AM

I really don't think a 7th place vote for Hasek should be assumed to be political. Goalies are hard to evaluate. There were seven great goaltenders up for voting. And Hasek has some negatives and question marks that other candidates don't.

You'd think somebody ranked Wayne Gretzky seventh.

Ohashi_Jouzu 10-26-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overpass (Post 55298441)
I really don't think a 7th place vote for Hasek should be assumed to be political. Goalies are hard to evaluate. There were seven great goaltenders up for voting. And Hasek has some negatives and question marks that other candidates don't.

I think it's also fair to say that he has a pretty incredible list of positives and exclamation marks that other candidates don't, but hey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by overpass (Post 55298441)
You'd think somebody ranked Wayne Gretzky seventh.

You know what? I really don't see the difference there. People have varying "Big 4" lists, and what is everyone's impression if Gretzky doesn't appear in someone's?

I submit that this is actually quite similar, and that the burden of proof/explanation is on the outliers in both cases. Bottom line is that I wish I had submitted a list so I could have voted, but the season is just starting to allow me the time to compile one I feel confident defending.


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