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-   -   Adrian Dater-Gary Bettman deserves ALL of the blame (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1275933)

RangerBoy 10-26-2012 06:42 AM

Adrian Dater-Gary Bettman deserves ALL of the blame
 
Poor Gary Bettman. He looked terrible and sounded worse when he answered questions at the Islanders press conference in Brooklyn. Its all on him. He is 3 for 3 in lockouts. The one constant. The PA in on their 6th executive director including the two interim directors since Bettman joined the NHL in 1993. Bettman broke the union in 2005 and Goodenow resigned. Bettman ended up with Don Fehr. :sarcasm:

Quote:

Gary Bettman deserves ALL the blame for the league’s stupid, ridiculous, foolish, embarrassing, dumb, idiotic, brainless, irrational, inane, half-witted, absurd, preposterous, insane and mad initial offer to the players – the 43-percent, no arbitration, you-have-to-an-old-man-to-be-a-free-agent offer that also demanded one billion dollars in unmarked bills and a plane to Mexico.

“He works for the owners. He was only doing their bidding,” you say in his defense. Why do the owners need a commissioner then? Why are they paying someone $8 million a year if all he does is act as a stenographer to their wishes? Doesn’t matter anyway. Bettman is smart enough to have known that would be a foolish offer. He should have gone back to the owners and said “OK guys, now you’re pushing it. Let’s be a little more sensible than this, yeah?” But he didn’t. So he gets the blame for not being smarter with his constituents.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2012...l-pouts/11810/

Gary is an $8M errand boy? He storms out of the meeting last Thursday and immediately flies back to NY. The NHLPA offers to meet to discuss the "make whole" concept and the NHL refuses. The NHL is FUBAR. Its the best game in the world but the people running it are clueless stooges. Very sad situation. Where is the mediator? George Cohen helped the NBA get a deal last fall. :help:

Ola 10-26-2012 06:59 AM

Of course he does.

He has been in charge of this league for 19 years. He has created the current atmostphere.

But this is written in the USA and there is zero interest in the game there anyway.

In Canada Bettman got the big outlets completely in his pockets. Hence he can make those ridiculous 43% offers and get away with it completely without him or any owner facing any kind of scrutiny. Sometimes you get what you deserve, we hockey fans 110% idolize these media personality's at TSN and co. no matter how much they are willing to screw the fans to get tweets from the HQ close to the deadline.

But media can't reasonably have a impact on this Ola!?

No of course not, thats why none of the parties care at all about getting their propaganda in the papers/on the air. Or wait, they seem to care a ton about that...

Steve 10-26-2012 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola (Post 55293969)
Of course he does.

He has been in charge of this league for 19 years. He has created the current atmostphere.

Without a doubt. He is looking for a "perfect" CBA to correct the leagues past issues.

coolasprICE 10-26-2012 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola (Post 55293969)
Of course he does.

He has been in charge of this league for 19 years. He has created the current atmostphere.

But this is written in the USA and there is zero interest in the game there anyway.

In Canada Bettman got the big outlets completely in his pockets. Hence he can make those ridiculous 43% offers and get away with it completely without him or any owner facing any kind of scrutiny. Sometimes you get what you deserve, we hockey fans 110% idolize these media personality's at TSN and co. no matter how much they are willing to screw the fans to get tweets from the HQ close to the deadline.

he also created many many jobs in markets that many people feel should not exist....if not for Gary many of the players in the nhlpa would have never cracked the league

Bubba Thudd 10-26-2012 07:17 AM

Quote:

Gary Bettman deserves ALL the blame for the league’s stupid, ridiculous, foolish, embarrassing, dumb, idiotic, brainless, irrational, inane, half-witted, absurd, preposterous, insane and mad initial offer to the players – the 43-percent, no arbitration, you-have-to-an-old-man-to-be-a-free-agent offer that also demanded one billion dollars in unmarked bills and a plane to Mexico.

“He works for the owners. He was only doing their bidding,” you say in his defense. Why do the owners need a commissioner then? Why are they paying someone $8 million a year if all he does is act as a stenographer to their wishes? Doesn’t matter anyway. Bettman is smart enough to have known that would be a foolish offer. He should have gone back to the owners and said “OK guys, now you’re pushing it. Let’s be a little more sensible than this, yeah?” But he didn’t. So he gets the blame for not being smarter with his constituents.
Those are the same words many Avalanche fans have used to describe Dater for years. Ironic, eh?

BLONG7 10-26-2012 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolasprICE (Post 55294025)
he also created many many jobs in markets that many people feel should not exist....if not for Gary many of the players in the nhlpa would have never cracked the league

Under his watch, the 700 members and the owners have all gotten rich...shouldn't they all love the guy? ;)

ottawah 10-26-2012 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLONG7 (Post 55294099)
Under his watch, the 700 members and the owners have all gotten rich...shouldn't they all love the guy? ;)

Never let logic and numbers get in the way of gut feelings. Its never about money, its about pride.

CoolburnIsGone 10-26-2012 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 55293995)
Without a doubt. He is looking for a "perfect" CBA to correct the leagues past issues.

Thats where he falls short then. There is no "perfect" CBA for either side. He should've figured this out already and should be continuing to have discussions with the players instead of refusing to meet.

Deebo 10-26-2012 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd (Post 55294071)
Those are the same words many Avalanche fans have used to describe Dater for years. Ironic, eh?

A general rule I've found is if that you are being re-tweeted by Allan Walsh on a regular basis, you're probably an NHLPA shill.

Adam Proteau, Larry Brooks and Adrian Dater are among those that fall in this category.

Cliffy1814 10-26-2012 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottawah (Post 55294167)
Never let logic and numbers get in the way of gut feelings. Its never about money, its about pride.

If the players are dragging this thing on because their feelings were hurt over that initial offer (which was only made because the players refused to engage in negotations for the better part of a year) than they might be dumber than I thought.

Morris Wanchuk 10-26-2012 08:21 AM

Are commissioners in any sport, ever popular?

PatriceBergeronFan 10-26-2012 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 (Post 55294565)
If the players are dragging this thing on because their feelings were hurt over that initial offer (which was only made because the players refused to engage in negotations for the better part of a year) than they might be dumber than I thought.

Maybe, just maybe they are "dragging this thing on" because the NHL's offers are still terrible.

ottawah 10-26-2012 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 (Post 55294565)
If the players are dragging this thing on because their feelings were hurt over that initial offer (which was only made because the players refused to engage in negotations for the better part of a year) than they might be dumber than I thought.

I was under the impression many players are dragging this out because of what happened last time, not even this time. Thats even worse.

ottawah 10-26-2012 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NathanHortonFan (Post 55294613)
Maybe, just maybe they are "dragging this thing on" because the NHL's offers are still terrible.

The NHL offer would pay the players a higher revenue percentage the NFL and MLB earn, and the same as the NBA. Can someone please explain why that is terrible?

Milliardo 10-26-2012 08:44 AM

What a childish pice from Dater. He sounds like a pouting baby.

Bettman is paid to take the blame, how he doens't get that is beyond me.

Elever 10-26-2012 08:48 AM

Dater is a sensationalist even though he claims "I don't say something until I can back it up and journalistic integrity blah blah blah."

At the same time, Bettman deserves more blame than his apologists here say who claim he's just a puppet. He directs owners as well.

I agree that firing him might not solve the problem BUT if someone is doing a bad job then they need to be removed from a position and using the excuse that "the other guy might not do any better" is not a valid reason to justify incompetence from the guy currently in charge.

CN_paladin 10-26-2012 09:04 AM

Those idiotic one-sided journalists are deliberately gaining support among players so they can get more interviews in the future. Half of them don't give a **** about us fans either.

pld459666 10-26-2012 09:04 AM

.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ottawah (Post 55294827)
The NHL offer would pay the players a higher revenue percentage the NFL and MLB earn, and the same as the NBA. Can someone please explain why that is terrible?

because every other part of the offer is a straight take back from what the players gained in the last round of negotiations.

I agree that a 50/50 is fair. I disagree with the immediate drop down to that number costing the players an immediate rollback.

I do not think that the rest of the proposal is fair in terms of pushing out the UFA years, limiting the ELCs to two years, eliminating the Arb. Process, forcing teams to carry cap hits for players playing in the minors after being made freely available to the NHL. 5 year term limits on contracts.

It's terrible when the NHL tells the NHLPA that they can meet on and discuss "tweaks" to the Make Whole provision so long as ALL OF THE ABOVE is accepted.

The NHL's offer is to take back EVERYTHING they gave up in the last round of negotiations and is not willing to negotiate off of those points.

All negotiations are give and take, all I have seen from the NHL is take. Where is it exactly that they are giving in any of the proposale they have made?

Please do not say they went from 43/57 to 50/50 because at the end of the day, they are still TAKING

barrytrotzsneck 10-26-2012 09:05 AM

Dater is Larry Brooks west.

Another NHLPA shill\apologist

MoreOrr 10-26-2012 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 55293995)
Without a doubt. He is looking for a "perfect" CBA to correct the leagues past issues.

To correct the League's past blunders would be more accurate.

I sympathize with the owners' situation, but I don't sympathize with the owners. They created this problem and now they're expecting the players to toss aside the negotiated contracts that they have with their respective teams and take reductions in those negotiated pay amounts in order to help the owners out of the economic quagmire that they put themselves into.

Bettman and the owners need to be somewhat reasonable here and accept that they're not going to fix this in one broad stroke. They're expecting the players to concede too much. The owners need to negotiate and arrangement that's going to make their economic circumstances better, but not necessarily be the complete fix that they'd like. And then try to be creative to deal with the remaining issues, at least until the next CBA rolls around.

Milliardo 10-26-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietCompany (Post 55294961)
Dater is a sensationalist even though he claims "I don't say something until I can back it up and journalistic integrity blah blah blah."

At the same time, Bettman deserves more blame than his apologists here say who claim he's just a puppet. He directs owners as well.

I agree that firing him might not solve the problem BUT if someone is doing a bad job then they need to be removed from a position and using the excuse that "the other guy might not do any better" is not a valid reason to justify incompetence from the guy currently in charge.

Well, the owners love him, so I don't think he will be fired anytime soon.

moosehead81 10-26-2012 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milliardo (Post 55295333)
Well, the owners love him, so I don't think he will be fired anytime soon.

Actually, I think he'll be gone within a year, maybe sooner if there's no NHL hockey in 2012-13. Although I don't know for sure, I can't believe that 100% of the owners are on side with this fiasco and if they lose the year or more, his head will definitely be served up. He'll probably go back to the NBA although he could quite likely retire with the obvious severance pay he'll get and the annual salary of $8 million he's been getting. You'll hear all the platitudes on the way out- he was great for the game, game grew under his tutelage, blah, blah, blah but all it'll mean is he made some owners some short term money, put franchises into areas that didn't want to support them, and basically left a mess for some-one else.

pepty 10-26-2012 09:32 AM

This is the the guy who was telling us a short time ago that the players were so bent on revenge that they would sit out a year or more just to get back at Bettman.

Perhaps it is his obsession as much or more than the players.

Anyway saying the Bettman is to blame for the lockouts is often repeated but only a small part of the story.
.
No league starts a season without an agreement hoping to get one in the course of the year. And why is that? Credit one Donald Fehr and his penchant for dragging out negotiations and then striking just before the playoffs.

The owners would have to be fresh off the turnip truck to fall for that one yet it is one of the players favoured talking points.Have they really not figured that one out yet?

So all of the leagues use lockout instead of starting the season and hoping for the best, but the reason the NHL lockouts have been prolonged and acrimonious in the NHL is the Fehr/Goodenow factor and all their hangers on and supporters in the NHLPA.

Fehr advised Goodneow during the 2004-05 lockout and it was he who pushed the strategy of holding out for 2 years if necessary
.
When Paul Kelly was made the new PA leader,someone who had integrity and back bone but was a more reasonable and less belligerent individual- the usual suspects organized a midnight coup to take back control with Fehr at the helm..They brought in Rodier just to make sure the level of obstreperousness and hostility reached the highest possible level.

The owners are right to suspect that Fehr has hijacked the proceedings for his own agenda and that there is nothing that they can do to get him to an agreement or even to negotiate in earnest rather than pulling a series of PR stunts.
And it wouldn't matter at all who the NHl commissioner was; the NHLPA is spoiling for a fight and unwilling to engage with the league to find a solution.

The ones who will pay the highest price for this posturing and the loss of at least part of the season are the players, but it appears they are just along for the ride .
Too bad for them.

Milliardo 10-26-2012 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosehead81 (Post 55295495)
Actually, I think he'll be gone within a year, maybe sooner if there's no NHL hockey in 2012-13. Although I don't know for sure, I can't believe that 100% of the owners are on side with this fiasco and if they lose the year or more, his head will definitely be served up. He'll probably go back to the NBA although he could quite likely retire with the obvious severance pay he'll get and the annual salary of $8 million he's been getting. You'll hear all the platitudes on the way out- he was great for the game, game grew under his tutelage, blah, blah, blah but all it'll mean is he made some owners some short term money, put franchises into areas that didn't want to support them, and basically left a mess for some-one else.

That's your take. I think he's a very good commish. And the owners want to play under a CBA they propose, the NHLPA doesn't want to negotiate, I don't think they (the owners) blame Bettman for that.

AceintheSpace* 10-26-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk (Post 55294609)
Are commissioners in any sport, ever popular?


Youre never going to please everyone, but id say Roger Goodell has at least a fair approval rating, but im not sure.


Things would definitely be different if we didnt expand so rapidly/idiotically in the last 20 years, which really is the core of the economic issues. That and if they knew a **** about how to properly brand the game and not have a ****ing lockout every new CBA. Colossal ****up. Get people in there that actually care about the game first and foremost.


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