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-   -   Whose side were you on, whose side are you on now (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1276057)

MacOfNiagara 10-26-2012 02:12 PM

Whose side were you on, whose side are you on now
 
Just curious. Obviously we are all on the fans side. And I realize some may not be on either side. But for those of you that have found one side to be more justified and/or reasonable in their position:

JustGivingEr 10-26-2012 02:15 PM

I started on the players side, but really I'm in the middle now.
Neither the NHL or the NHLPA has really done anything to get a deal done.



If I had to pick I guess I'd still say I'm on the players side, but really only because I've become huge fans of a lot of these players and I can't just go against them all of a sudden.

McRpro 10-26-2012 02:31 PM

I was on the owners side at the start, but certainly nowhere near the same level that I was in '04. However as these negotiations continue I find myself leaning more and more towards the owners. The last proposal was something that the PA could have worked on but instead they dismissed it and continued with their push of a non-linked system that they know full well will be rejected by the owners.

When this is all finished we all know how it will end. Now we wait and see how long it takes the players to realize it and get the best deal they can under the owners terms.

haseoke39 10-26-2012 02:33 PM

The financials/numbers of the league just scream "reasonable" to the way the owners have negotiated and "shooting self in foot" to what the players are doing.

CK17 10-26-2012 02:43 PM

Started owners, went to the players after the owners ridiculous 43% offer, been owners after their next offer and the PA refusal to talk the same language.

IF the PA would of offered a gradual drop to 50%(54-52-50 etc) and Bettman wouldn't of even negotiate it and I would of gone back to the players. However since they're insisting on the dream notion of only giving back future growth they can rot. Owners till the end.

GoneFullHextall 10-26-2012 02:44 PM

I am on nobodys side.
except for the real losers in all this. the fans.

everyone else can go screw themselves.

LukeD 10-26-2012 02:49 PM

Neither are being very appealing to the other.

SharksFan1 10-26-2012 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren (Post 55302733)
I am on nobodys side.
except for the real losers in all this. the fans.

everyone else can go screw themselves.

Don't forget about all the employees of the arenas and teams, and the surrounding businesses that are loosing money and/or jobs because of this. There are people loosing their livelihoods which is much more important than use fans missing some entertainment.

Just One Cup 10-26-2012 03:08 PM

The moment the NHLPA refused to negotiate during the season last year I went to the owners side and have never thought I was picking the wrong side.

Dragon Priest 10-26-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren (Post 55302733)
I am on nobodys side.
except for the real losers in all this. the fans.

everyone else can go screw themselves.

Can't say I disagree here.

Dragon Priest 10-26-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharksFan1 (Post 55303307)
Don't forget about all the employees of the arenas and teams, and the surrounding businesses that are loosing money and/or jobs because of this. There are people loosing their livelihoods which is much more important than use fans missing some entertainment.

And this as well.

danishh 10-26-2012 03:11 PM

im not really on either side, nor the fans side.

i'm on the side that wants the NHL to be a healthy, growing, business for every team. This has left me more frustrated with the owners currently than I am with the players, because the players are at least doing what would be expected: try to get as much money as possible, but the owners do not appear to be interested in fixing the systemic economic problems that exist in the league.

LickTheEnvelope 10-26-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oshie97 (Post 55303341)
The moment the NHLPA refused to negotiate during the season last year I went to the owners side and have thought I was picking the wrong side.

This... basically since the NHLPA hired Fehr then went into strategy mode of self destruction.

Quote from Fehr last year:
Quote:

Asked if the NHLPA wants this to be a revolutionary agreement or an evolutionary one – in other words, whether the union wants a new system or just adjustments to the current one – Fehr said:
“I’m not prepared to make that judgment yet because the players haven’t made it, and that’s an involved process. But everybody understands that trying to change something radically, unless both sides start from the premise that they want to, is much more problematic in terms of getting an agreement done than not.
Interesting. So even last year, when the NHLPA was refusing to start negotiations, Fehr was well aware that proposing drastic changes to the CBA would be problematic to getting a deal done...

ihaveyuidonttouchme 10-26-2012 04:16 PM

I dont understand how u ppl can side with one another. At the end of the day, we r all ****ed by them..


To answer the poll, neither

haseoke39 10-26-2012 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihaveyuidonttouchme (Post 55304897)
I dont understand how u ppl can side with one another. At the end of the day, we r all ****ed by them..


To answer the poll, neither

I don't think you've been getting ****ed by the guys who paid millions out of their own pockets for years to put a show on for you that you wouldn't be willing to pay the real cost of.

GoneFullHextall 10-26-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharksFan1 (Post 55303307)
Don't forget about all the employees of the arenas and teams, and the surrounding businesses that are loosing money and/or jobs because of this. There are people loosing their livelihoods which is much more important than use fans missing some entertainment.

of course. most importanly cannot forget those folks.

JessicaN 10-26-2012 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danishh (Post 55303405)
the owners do not appear to be interested in fixing the systemic economic problems that exist in the league.

As evidenced by locking out the players? :huh:

MarkhamNHL 10-26-2012 04:28 PM

dunno why, can't vote in any of these polls... too new maybe ?

because this was a lockout.. I was on the players side
after all the rhetoric / crapola etc... still on players side

just another company trying to squeeze money out of their labor force for bad planning/strategies to cover up their tracks.

the only person who's salary has gone up every year in the NHL is Gary Bettman's.

santiclaws 10-26-2012 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SharksFan1 (Post 55303307)
Don't forget about all the employees of the arenas and teams, and the surrounding businesses that are loosing money and/or jobs because of this. There are people loosing their livelihoods which is much more important than use fans missing some entertainment.

I know a guy who moved his family half way across the country this summer to take a job with an NHL team/arena. He's still employed, but shaking in his boots as you can imagine. His wife hasn't found a job yet. So yeah, it's not the fans who are suffering.

Honestly, I'm just sick and tired of both sides. If you can't divvy up $3.3 billion, a pox on both your houses.

MarkhamNHL 10-26-2012 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weber48 (Post 55305065)
As evidenced by locking out the players? :huh:

as evidenced by insisting the coyotes stay and lose 20-40 million a year

CN_paladin 10-26-2012 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL (Post 55305209)
dunno why, can't vote in any of these polls... too new maybe ?

because this was a lockout.. I was on the players side
after all the rhetoric / crapola etc... still on players side

just another company trying to squeeze money out of their labor force for bad planning/strategies to cover up their tracks.

the only person who's salary has gone up every year in the NHL is Gary Bettman's.

When you quadruple the total revenues from 800M to 3.2B in matter of years, most owners would gladly pay you that much.

MarkhamNHL 10-26-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CN_paladin (Post 55305279)
When you quadruple the total revenues from 800M to 3.2B in matter of years, most owners would gladly pay you that much.

isn't this the players point ?

record revenues... but you want us to take a pay cut ?
you want to keep the coyotes bleeding money where they are ?
your owners do not want to help each other out financially ?

let the players pay for the failing teams...

Butch 19 10-26-2012 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL (Post 55305239)
as evidenced by insisting the coyotes stay and lose 20-40 million a year

agree w/ this.. Something needs to be done about Phx for the upcoming season (if there is one). I thought last Dec was the "drop dead date" for a new owner to be annointed, but that still hasn't happened.

The CBA needs to address this issue in some way, if it can...? Phx just drags the entire league down. Look, Atl moved 6 weeks after I heard rumors they may be leaving Atl.

Make it the same with the Coyotes - sorry, but your time is up, this experiment has in fact, failed. Back up the moving vans and move them to QC next week. 2012-13 season would be an odd year getting settled and travelling long distances for division games, but still better than playing in front of 4,000 fans in Phx.

Then for 13-14 season, realign divisons to deal w/ Winnipeg and QC teams - done!

Whydidijoin* 10-26-2012 06:26 PM

For all those saying Phoenix, Phoenix, Phoenix!, that is complete crap.

We may not like that the team is in Phoenix (hell, I don't either), but it is an attempt to grow the game outside of already established markets. Something BOTH the owners and players expressed was of utmost importance.

The owners are losing profits in order to grow the game. This isn't to screw over the players.

Moving a team to a prime location is stupid anyway. If they wait until there is room for growth and then expand into those areas instead of moving, they can get a substantial expansion fee, which boosts the profits of players and owners.

MarkhamNHL 10-26-2012 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whydidijoin (Post 55307635)
For all those saying Phoenix, Phoenix, Phoenix!, that is complete crap.

We may not like that the team is in Phoenix (hell, I don't either), but it is an attempt to grow the game outside of already established markets. Something BOTH the owners and players expressed was of utmost importance.

The owners are losing profits in order to grow the game. This isn't to screw over the players.

Moving a team to a prime location is stupid anyway. If they wait until there is room for growth and then expand into those areas instead of moving, they can get a substantial expansion fee, which boosts the profits of players and owners.

i think 16 years of failure should suffice to know the obvious.


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