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-   -   Confirmed with Link: No More Lockout Blues! - 2012 Lockout Part 2 [UPD: AGREEMENT REACHED!] (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1276133)

Holden Caulfield 10-26-2012 05:42 PM

No More Lockout Blues! - 2012 Lockout Part 2 [UPD: AGREEMENT REACHED!]
 
UPDATE: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412844


Continue from here

Quote:

Originally Posted by scelaton (Post 55305687)
I'm with you, Buggs. I'm a proud Winnipegger, but the city and arena are both relatively small compared to others in the NHL and we cannot compete with the New Yorks and TOs, head to head, without substantial revenue sharing from broadcast contracts. I don't believe we will lose our team any time soon, but a sane CBA and salary cap that doesn't spiral out of control are absolute necessities. I am sure TNSE management would agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sipowicz (Post 55306295)
The tide is turning in favour of the owners, I for one backed the players at first but now think they are to blame for the lockout. They had a year before the lockout to try to reach an agreement with the NHL, 50/50 owners/players in revenue sharing seems pretty good, the players will never get back what they have already lost, the fans seem to have been lost in all of this and from the vibe I get from the players they really don't care, players salaries have jumped in leaps and bounds even compared to every other league.....:rant:

Quote:

Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ (Post 55306325)
Top 10 things I hate about this lockout and the POTENTIAL of losing a season (I'm still somewhat optimistic):
  1. Fehr and Bettman
  2. Not seeing Jokinen on the ice - I was looking forward to the Photoshop fun this would entail. Oh, and he's a pretty darned good centre that would give the Jets much needed size down the middle
  3. The Leafs 2nd line re-union - potentially Poni, Antro, and Welly together again. Saw them play a few games in person in Toronto, and I think they'd make a great 3rd line
  4. Not being able to watch the prospects play their hearts out during a training camp
  5. Not being able to watch a healthy Enstrom, Buff and Bogo play, with further Huddy mentoring
  6. Not being able to cheer about making the playoffs! This felt like the year.
  7. Not watching Wheeler and Kane take the next step.
  8. Not putting together Game Day threads - I'm suffering from withdrawal. :D
  9. Not seeing Pavs turn it around and be the $5M - 12% player he can be.
  10. Not being able to enjoy the escapism: this lockout legal wrangling is truly a downer. After 15 years of missing my home team, and having half-heartedly cheered for the Leafs while I've been in Toronto, it was genuinely great to have a few hours a week where the days bull could be set aside for a while to watch the Jets.

Please, PLEASE figure out an agreement!

What does everyone else miss / hate about the lockout?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustGivingEr (Post 55306527)
I miss watching the Jets.
And hockey in general.

:cry: :cry: :cry:


King Woodballs 10-26-2012 05:49 PM

Shut the season down
Enough is enough

sipowicz 10-26-2012 05:50 PM

Interesting to see the poll on the main board under business of hockey, looks like the majority are siding with the owners or have changed their position and now back the owners (I did). The longer the lockout goes on the more you will see fans supporting the owners.

garret9 10-26-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Top 10 things I hate about this lockout and the POTENTIAL of losing a season (I'm still somewhat optimistic):
Fehr and Bettman
Not seeing Jokinen on the ice - I was looking forward to the Photoshop fun this would entail. Oh, and he's a pretty darned good centre that would give the Jets much needed size down the middle
The Leafs 2nd line re-union - potentially Poni, Antro, and Welly together again. Saw them play a few games in person in Toronto, and I think they'd make a great 3rd line
Not being able to watch the prospects play their hearts out during a training camp
Not being able to watch a healthy Enstrom, Buff and Bogo play, with further Huddy mentoring
Not being able to cheer about making the playoffs! This felt like the year.
Not watching Wheeler and Kane take the next step.
Not putting together Game Day threads - I'm suffering from withdrawal.
Not seeing Pavs turn it around and be the $5M - 12% player he can be.
Not being able to enjoy the escapism: this lockout legal wrangling is truly a downer. After 15 years of missing my home team, and having half-heartedly cheered for the Leafs while I've been in Toronto, it was genuinely great to have a few hours a week where the days bull could be set aside for a while to watch the Jets.

Please, PLEASE figure out an agreement!

What does everyone else miss / hate about the lockout?
I'm with you on a few things (in no particular order):
  • An escape from my hectic and life draining combined/dual honours program
  • to see how Noel would run a team that has an average-to-above-average depth relative to last year's below-average depth team
  • to see how much better our team would look with 2 below average 1st lines, a third line and a fourth, instead of a below average 1st, below avg 2nd, and two 4th lines (trying to remove my homerism in this point)
  • to see how the team would do without losing ~80gp between our top4 D
  • to see if either or both Postma and Clitsome could take a step forward under Huddy
  • to see how _ST would do under 4th line duty/minutes
  • to see how much more awesome Buff make Enstrom look, Enstrom make Buff look, and Hainsey make Bogo look... instead of having 10-30 games each with Stuart/Oduya

Holden Caulfield 10-26-2012 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Woodballs (Post 55306759)
Shut the season down
Enough is enough

This mentality makes zero sense to me...your upset about the lockout so your solution is to unneccessarily potentially PROLONG the lockout? There's still 3+ months to salvage the season. Doesn't this seem counter-productive?

I still think a mid-November signing date is what's going to happen. Hopefully a 60-70 game season starting on December 1.

DespoticNewt 10-26-2012 06:43 PM

Heh. The BoH board is spinning in a circle in each new topic. They keep arguing about the same damn thing. There's a lot of eloquent typers on there, but I'm beyond giving a **** now. I want hockey back. Scratch that. I want the NHL back. Wake me when there's actual progress and new developments.

TheWaz 10-26-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Woodballs (Post 55306759)
Shut the season down
Enough is enough

I've had the same thought come into my head as I am just so tired of following this and why wait on pins and needles when the 2 parties can't even get face to face to negotiate. Its so frustrating and gut wrenching and downright sad that I just can't take it anymore! To go through the emotional rollercoaster of getting our team back to enjoying the most incredible season no matter what happened....to being locked out?? Really?? Is this happening??

I was so devasted when the Jets left that I quit watching NHL hockey and started following NFL hardcore....I didn't even notice the 04/05 lockout......other than realizing it was necessary and the results would allow Winnipeg to regain our beloved Jets....and had no doubt that once the deal was finalized it was only a matter of time! I was always a believer!

Here we are again.....and it is necessary.....unfortunately.....to deal with the financial situation once and for all to ensure stability for years to come....we hope.
The lame lack of true negotiating is beyond frustrating. 241 players never played an NHL game again last time......so the players are fighting for WHO exactly?? The elite who play 10 - 15 years.....next generation? Average Player salary increased how much over the last 7 years??

ugh.....I could just get drunk on and put my head through the wall cuz of all this....hence why the original statement of my response comes into my head.

But the one thing keeping me partially optimistic is this......

Tentative deal reached to end NBA lockout
Plan is for 66-game season to tip off on Christmas Day
November 26, 2011
Camp started on De. 9TH and Reg season started on Christmas Day


This wouldn't allow 66 games.....but probably between 50 and 60......and once that happens all these horrible feelings inside go away and I don my Jets Jersey and head back to Section 304 and rejoice once again!

A partial Season BLOWS but it is what it is.

I thought FOR SURE this gets completed fast and a full season happens no problem!
I'm just an optimistic fool who thought common sense would prevail.

If our 2ND season back goes BLANK on the Stanley Cup...well there are just no words.

Hard to get a deal done with no talking.......i'm sitting at about 20% Probability right now.....

sorry for the rambling reply

GO JETS GO!!!!

sully1410 10-26-2012 09:26 PM

I'm not sure if I even care anymore.

KingBogo 10-26-2012 09:36 PM

On the positive side Bogo has another month to heal his wrist :)

razorsedge 10-26-2012 11:22 PM

Heard a quote from toews, about honoring existing contracts in full and how they signed the contracts to provide their family's with a better life and the NHL wants to take that away. That ended my support for the players. God forbid toews family have to live off of $7 million a year instead of $8million.

I agree that contracts should be honored in full but keep your mouth shut and let Fehr do that talking for you guys.

garret9 10-26-2012 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razorsedge (Post 55314769)
Heard a quote from toews, about honoring existing contracts in full and how they signed the contracts to provide their family's with a better life and the NHL wants to take that away. That ended my support for the players. God forbid toews family have to live off of $7 million a year instead of $8million.

I agree that contracts should be honored in full but keep your mouth shut and let Fehr do that talking for you guys.

Another thing to add...

**If** the "anonymous executive" on ****** was legit and being truthful (which I think he was as apparently the mods confirmed him and he seemed semi-bipartisan)...
Then most, if not every player, in the last two years signed there contract under the assumption that there was most likely going to be some sort of rollback.

Mathil8 10-27-2012 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWaz (Post 55310643)
This wouldn't allow 66 games.....but probably between 50 and 60......and once that happens all these horrible feelings inside go away and I don my Jets Jersey and head back to Section 304 and rejoice once again!

You just reminded me of the fact that my jets jersey has been sitting in my closet for the past few months. This makes me sad :(

Turbofan 10-27-2012 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garret9 (Post 55314867)
Another thing to add...

**If** the "anonymous executive" on ****** was legit and being truthful (which I think he was as apparently the mods confirmed him and he seemed semi-bipartisan)...
Then most, if not every player, in the last two years signed there contract under the assumption that there was most likely going to be some sort of rollback.

Yeah that's a big thing for me. I mean every single professional athlete out there must know that their contracts and the actual dollar amounts are going to be subject to modification by future or existing CBA's. Come on man, don't plead innocence. You must have known CBA negotiations were looming. Or if not, your agent must have known it. That's why you were offered a substantial signing bonus.

Even in the last CBA, the player share of HRR wasn't a fixed amount. It varied between 54% and 57% depending on revenue. Basically you were never guaranteed any set amount of cash. Thus escrow. Your salary has always been a variable amount; not only from one CBA to the next but even year-to-year within a single CBA term. So cut the bull about 'honoring' contracts for some fixed amount.

Grind 10-27-2012 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wings (Post 55316319)
Yeah that's a big thing for me. I mean every single professional athlete out there must know that their contracts and the actual dollar amounts are going to be subject to modification by future or existing CBA's. Come on man, don't plead innocence. You must have known CBA negotiations were looming. Or if not, your agent must have known it. That's why you were offered a substantial signing bonus.

Even in the last CBA, the player share of HRR wasn't a fixed amount. It varied between 54% and 57% depending on revenue. Basically you were never guaranteed any set amount of cash. Thus escrow. Your salary has always been a variable amount; not only from one CBA to the next but even year-to-year within a single CBA term. So cut the bull about 'honoring' contracts for some fixed amount.

Edit:all yous and yours are of the generic sort, and targeted at the players as an entity

Worst part about the "honoring contracts" BS is that one player already came out and said the nhlpa didn't want to negotiate prior to the end of the CBA because they new it would result in a lot of big money deals at the deadline.


I'm sorry but don't you dare complain to me about "principle" when your ****ing principle was gaming the system, and now you piss and moan about how the owners want to go back on deals they signed because YOU refused to negotiate earlier. Calling the kettle black much?

Sorry, half drunk and all mad at the lockout right now. ...

DespoticNewt 10-27-2012 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind (Post 55316603)
Edit:all yous and yours are of the generic sort, and targeted at the players as an entity

Worst part about the "honoring contracts" BS is that one player already came out and said the nhlpa didn't want to negotiate prior to the end of the CBA because they new it would result in a lot of big money deals at the deadline.


I'm sorry but don't you dare complain to me about "principle" when your ****ing principle was gaming the system, and now you piss and moan about how the owners want to go back on deals they signed because YOU refused to negotiate earlier. Calling the kettle black much?

Sorry, half drunk and all mad at the lockout right now. ...

You should drunk dial the NHL PA offices. :D

ps241 10-27-2012 06:50 AM

A good portion of contracts were actually cut after the NHL had made their intentions perfectly clear (he11 some after the initial NHL offer was on the table) about where they were going with the new CBA. NEWS FLASH the agents all new the owners intention of getting towards 50-50 and they forged ahead anyways when they didn't have to (see Jamie Benn and PK Subban as the opposite). Any contracts done in the last season were eyes wide open types so please can we get past the good faith part when both sides clealy understood the goal of the NHL??? Common honest question who here on HF Boards were not aware the NHL would probably try to follow the NBA 50-50 split ratio with the new CBA?

SensibleGuy 10-27-2012 06:57 AM

You bet your a** the players were "playin the game" every bit as much as the owners when they signed those last minute contracts just before the lockout.

King Woodballs 10-27-2012 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleGuy (Post 55317459)
You bet your a** the players were "playin the game" every bit as much as the owners when they signed those last minute contracts just before the lockout.

Nah
The players are innocent in all of this :sarcasm:

SensibleGuy 10-27-2012 07:25 AM

yeah I know. The players just wanna play hockey! Hell, they'd do it for free if they couldn't get paid millions of dollars to do it! Its all about the love of the game and performing for the fans. Thats all they really care about...:naughty:

King Woodballs 10-27-2012 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleGuy (Post 55317579)
yeah I know. The players just wanna play hockey! Hell, they'd do it for free if they couldn't get paid millions of dollars to do it! Its all about the love of the game and performing for the fans. Thats all they really care about...:naughty:

Yeah exactly
They all do it for the love of the game, and the fans.
Money has nothing to do with it.... :laugh:
Almost said that with a straight face


I hope the whole season is done, just so these guys (players and owners) dont get much money this year from hockey (they will still get from merch sales)

The fans have been just kicked in the nuts

LadyJet26 10-28-2012 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razorsedge (Post 55314769)
Heard a quote from toews, about honoring existing contracts in full and how they signed the contracts to provide their family's with a better life and the NHL wants to take that away. That ended my support for the players. God forbid toews family have to live off of $7 million a year instead of $8million.

I agree that contracts should be honored in full but keep your mouth shut and let Fehr do that talking for you guys.

You do realize that 95% of these families live in the US year round and now have no benefits whatsoever right? You try living without benefits.

I get that they get paid millions of dollars, etc, but they still have families to support and not all of them are lucky to be Canadian (despite our health care system that continues to fail in this province. Except if you're rich) and have free healthcare. Do you even know what a night in hospital costs? An ambulance ride? Even a broken arm? Plus tons of these guys have their money invested and can't get it out. Most hockey players aren't very good financially. Bad example is Paul Bissionnette, but still guy blows his salary in Vegas every year. Took him 4 years to hire a financial consultant. It isn't just the player and some of these guys locked out have only been playing a year and don't have very much money. Most unions will work thoroughout contract negotiations. Most employers won't lock out their employees. I pay to see the players play, not the ****ing BOG and their greedy ways and them not wanting to part with the 120 mil they make every year with the clubs that don't. My siding with the players is based on my hatred of the BOG and the NHL. They don't give one rats ass about the fans. The players got ****ed over for years pre 1980. Yeah some players don't give a ****, but that's their personality. Most players want what's fair and the way the BOG and the NHL are playing at is not fair. BOG and the NHL are a bunch of greedy ********.

Conflicted Habs fan 10-28-2012 07:32 PM

If it were not for Bettman the lockout would not be happening

LadyJet26 10-28-2012 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conflicted Habs fan (Post 55357113)
If it were not for Bettman the lockout would not be happening

more so the BOG

videofarmer 10-28-2012 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanucksnWpg (Post 55356603)
You do realize that 95% of these families live in the US year round and now have no benefits whatsoever right? You try living without benefits.

I get that they get paid millions of dollars, etc, but they still have families to support and not all of them are lucky to be Canadian (despite our health care system that continues to fail in this province. Except if you're rich) and have free healthcare. Do you even know what a night in hospital costs? An ambulance ride? Even a broken arm? Plus tons of these guys have their money invested and can't get it out. Most hockey players aren't very good financially. Bad example is Paul Bissionnette, but still guy blows his salary in Vegas every year. Took him 4 years to hire a financial consultant. It isn't just the player and some of these guys locked out have only been playing a year and don't have very much money. Most unions will work thoroughout contract negotiations. Most employers won't lock out their employees. I pay to see the players play, not the ****ing BOG and their greedy ways and them not wanting to part with the 120 mil they make every year with the clubs that don't. My siding with the players is based on my hatred of the BOG and the NHL. They don't give one rats ass about the fans. The players got ****ed over for years pre 1980. Yeah some players don't give a ****, but that's their personality. Most players want what's fair and the way the BOG and the NHL are playing at is not fair. BOG and the NHL are a bunch of greedy ********.

The players families still have insurance so they don't have to pay those expenses directly. They don't even have to pay their monthly insurance premium since the NHLPA has agreed to pay it for them while they are locked out. When the players talk about providing a better life for their families, this is not even remotely what they are talking about.

LadyJet26 10-28-2012 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by videofarmer (Post 55357431)
The players families still have insurance so they don't have to pay those expenses directly. They don't even have to pay their monthly insurance premium since the NHLPA has agreed to pay it for them while they are locked out. When the players talk about providing a better life for their families, this is not even remotely what they are talking about.

You really think the PA is going to pay for that for the entire year? Because there is going to be no NHL this year. And their "insurance" isn't like the NHL benefits they get. American insurance is retarded.

Sucks that there's no Moose to go and see at the MTS Centre. So sick of the NHL and their greediness. It's a game and it should be about the damn game. Not money.


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