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-   -   The Official Arena Thread Part 6 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1276585)

Oilbleeder 10-28-2012 12:37 AM

The Official Arena Thread Part 6
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SDig14 (Post 55333685)
I honestly think they are just dreaming of the $ that come with expansion.

I get the feeling the ideal scenario is still 30 teams, perhaps they just don't want to let 2 teams fail, have dispersal drafts, and then expand to Ontario and Quebec?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly85 (Post 55334423)
Pretty much my feelings to a tee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lampshade (Post 55337127)
I can't see why Katz wouldn't want to move the team to southern Ont. before you all spazz out, understand from a business aspect how profitable that move would be. We all know the Leafs generate the most revenue regardless of success, yes there has been zero to speak of in the past decade. With the city and Katz butting heads, the city has to understand Katz owns the team, thus he decides the fate. The oilers leaving Edmonton would deveatate the town but if I was in the business of making money, with all the hassle lately I'd move it to the most proven hockey market in the NHL in a heartbeat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotToddy (Post 55337255)
I'm sorry but you've made several statements on Katz and the Casino liscense and they all deserve a negative response.

To start off the public reveal of Katz's political donations have ensured that the chance of Katz ever getting a Casino liscense is ZERO. Let me repeat that, ZERO, its a non-starter that this PC governement will ever do anything than ever remotely resembles a quid pro quo. He won't be able to get a free lunch on an MP let alone a casino liscense

What in high hell has the Katz group or the Oilers done to deserve a Casino liscense?

Just because Pittsburg got one isn't a valid response. Pittsburg plays in sports city with numerous other legitimate competitors for its sporting dollar and has a gross household income of around 50K.

Edmonton plays in a city where it essentially has the sports/entertainment dollar to itself and has one of the highest per houshold GDP's in metro North America at around 85K.

The idea tha Katz gets to cherry pick the most favourable parts of funding models from all over the NHL is fairyland and you need to quit sprinkling his dust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundwave (Post 55337441)
Who does it hurt to give the Oilers/Katz a gaming license? The taxpayer? No.

And yes, Edmonton is not Pittsburgh. Edmonton couldn't possibly have troubles with an NHL franchises in the span of 35 years ... because every year since 1979 has gone swimmingly right?

Yeah ... uh, how about no. Some of us remember the early-mid 1990s. What happens when the salary cap is $90 million? What happens if Edmonton's economy is no longer one of the highest in North America? What happens if the Canadian dollar drops to 65 cents again?

When you're making an arena deal for 35 years, I don't blame Katz one bit for trying to get the best possible deal. Economic conditions can change in 10 years. 20 years. 30 years. Anyone who's looked at the overall history of the Oilers knows that there have been wild swings in the economic stability of the franchise.

I haven't heard any credible reason why the Oilers can't have a gaming license other than "well we're not Pittsburgh or Winnipeg". Yeah ... and? Why shouldn't the Oilers have a very good deal? Who is really being hurt if the Oilers have a gaming license? How many bars/pubs/arena staff are helped by the Oilers?

Do I get a cookie for "sticking it to Katz"? What do I gain with the Oilers not having this gaming license?


Continue here.

And lets cut out the crap and have a civil conversation please. Cheers.

Halibut 10-28-2012 09:53 AM

I dont have a problem with the Oilers getting a gaming license but it's entirely out of the City's hands. IF Katz wants a Casino he will have to either apply for a licence or buy out the current operator who holds a licence at the Baccarat. I dont think Katz ever seriously intended to operate a casino I think it was just a suggestion based on the Pittsburgh model of a way to subsidize their operations. But as the city pointed out the Pittsburgh deal is unique to Pittsburgh and their are several reasons why the proposed deal here in this market is better than the Pittsburgh model.

IF the dollar drops to 65 cents again then Katz could be in trouble, but so could the city. Big economic swings dont just affect the hockey team. The biggest problem with giving him something that protects him from a downturn is that while he doesnt need it we are subsidizing him huge profits. If the economy never does go through a downturn then he never needed that money in the first place. A reasonable solution would be the ticket surcharge flipping to Katz if certain criteria are met, like a lower Canadian dollar or revenues not keeping pace with the rest of the league.

Wheatking 10-28-2012 10:22 AM

Wow. The sixth thread. It's got to be almost built by now, right?

stratedge 10-28-2012 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halibut (Post 55341145)
IF the dollar drops to 65 cents again then Katz could be in trouble, but so could the city. Big economic swings dont just affect the hockey team. The biggest problem with giving him something that protects him from a downturn is that while he doesnt need it we are subsidizing him huge profits. If the economy never does go through a downturn then he never needed that money in the first place. A reasonable solution would be the ticket surcharge flipping to Katz if certain criteria are met, like a lower Canadian dollar or revenues not keeping pace with the rest of the league.

This is intelligent and rational thinking, and I agree. Make any sort of subsidy based on the premise of hypothetical risk contingent on economic criteria, such as dollar value relative to USD. I'd take that bet.

Moonlapse Vertigo 10-28-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheatking (Post 55341555)
Wow. The sixth thread. It's got to be almost built by now, right?

At least half built amirite?

aqib 10-28-2012 05:46 PM

No one held a gun to Katz's head and forced him to buy the team. In fact that team wasn't even on the market when he went to EIG. In fact he bought out one shareholder at a time, it was a borderline hostile takeover.
That being said we know how much the Oilers mean to Edmonton. Lets set the egos aside and get this deal done

oilphan 10-30-2012 08:11 PM

Innocent until proven guilty and all that, but man this stuff is looking bad. Now an official investigation by election officials. Yikes.

Replacement 10-30-2012 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilphan (Post 55408845)
Innocent until proven guilty and all that, but man this stuff is looking bad. Now an official investigation by election officials. Yikes.

This is no surprise and was announced a week ago. Yes this was going to get investigated its a huge contravention of the Alberta contribution rules. The optics are horrible, for both Katz and the PC's that accepted the monies. Its been a zoo at the legislature and open season on the PC's who are defenceless on this topic.

Its amazing how many things Katz can **** up.

Soundwave 10-30-2012 08:50 PM

Unfortunately the Oilers are going to suffer because of this whole mess, it looks like.

This arena project is going to get stuck in quick sand, the Oilers are going to be playing in a **** arena, even the Islanders will have shiny new digs :(

gonzo11 10-30-2012 09:26 PM

here is a wild thought

Northlands refuses to extend the current lease that expires in 2015 I think, that could be interesting

Moonlapse Vertigo 10-30-2012 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumptheshark (Post 55410679)
here is a wild thought

Northlands refuses to extend the current lease that expires in 2015 I think, that could be interesting

I can't see that happening. Richard Andersen sounds positively giddy whenever he's asked about the Oilers having to extend the lease.

Moonlapse Vertigo 10-30-2012 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundwave (Post 55409991)
Unfortunately the Oilers are going to suffer because of this whole mess, it looks like.

This arena project is going to get stuck in quick sand, the Oilers are going to be playing in a **** arena, even the Islanders will have shiny new digs :(

I'm curious to see how Calgary proceeds now. I've read a lot of blogs and articles that suggest that the gears are already turning on their new arena and surprise, surprise... it's being accomplished quietly and painlessly. Edmonton city council and administration had better be paying attention to their progress.

Billybaroo* 10-30-2012 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo (Post 55410823)
I'm curious to see how Calgary proceeds now. I've read a lot of blogs and articles that suggest that the gears are already turning on their new arena and surprise, surprise... it's being accomplished quietly and painlessly. Edmonton city council and administration had better be paying attention to their progress.

I would think Katz, not City Council, should be the one paying attention as to how you get things done "quietly & painlessly".
This fiasco is on Katz & no one else.

Moonlapse Vertigo 10-30-2012 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybaroo (Post 55410939)
I would think Katz, not City Council, should be the one paying attention as to how you get things done "quietly & painlessly".
This fiasco is on Katz & no one else.

I blame Katz too but the city is all alone on this now. Hopefully, they can find a way to get something built... even if it just turns out to be Rexall Version 2.0 with fancier amenities.

Halibut 10-30-2012 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo (Post 55410823)
I'm curious to see how Calgary proceeds now. I've read a lot of blogs and articles that suggest that the gears are already turning on their new arena and surprise, surprise... it's being accomplished quietly and painlessly. Edmonton city council and administration had better be paying attention to their progress.

Maybe but their mayor didnt sound all that interested in contributing and specifically stated they dont need to fix their downtown. The political situation isnt that different in Calgary, they wont get public money all that easy.

Moonlapse Vertigo 10-30-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halibut (Post 55411437)
Maybe but their mayor didnt sound all that interested in contributing and specifically stated they dont need to fix their downtown. The political situation isnt that different in Calgary, they wont get public money all that easy.

When the time comes they'll have enough private investors who will be eager to chip in.

Moonlapse Vertigo 10-30-2012 10:25 PM

While we're on the subject, Cowtown needs a new arena even more than we do. The Dome is just as dumpy as Rexall Place and they've been losing out on a lot of major concert acts over the past several years. I think it's primarily the shape of the roof that's causing most of the problems. Bands can't rig lighting and various other pyrotechnics like they can in other buildings.

raab 10-30-2012 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo (Post 55411857)
While we're on the subject, Cowtown needs a new arena even more than we do. The Dome is just as dumpy as Rexall Place and they've been losing out on a lot of major concert acts over the past several years. I think it's primarily the shape of the roof that's causing most of the problems. Bands can't rig lighting and various other pyrotechnics like they can in other buildings.

Doesn't help that its horrible for acoustics.

Villager 10-30-2012 10:39 PM

So... Are we screwed or what?

Moonlapse Vertigo 10-30-2012 11:00 PM

It's hard to say. City council dilly dallied for four years but it's obvious to everybody and their mother that Katz has dropped the ball in several ways here. If he wants to pick up said ball and go home then, hey, I guess that's up to him. I hope that the NHL won't punish the City of Edmonton for Katz's ridiculous behavior... but hey, it's the NHL so you never know.

T-Funk 10-30-2012 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo (Post 55412579)
It's hard to say. City council dilly dallied for four years but it's obvious to everybody and their mother that Katz has dropped the ball in several ways here. If he wants to pick up said ball and go home then, hey, I guess that's up to him. I hope that the NHL won't punish the City of Edmonton for Katz's ridiculous behavior... but hey, it's the NHL so you never know.

CC dilly dallied for 4 years to come to the inevitable conclusion that Edmonton needed and wanted an arena, but it's all still on Katz eh?

Moonlapse Vertigo 10-30-2012 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Funk (Post 55412831)
CC dilly dallied for 4 years to come to the inevitable conclusion that Edmonton needed and wanted an arena, but it's all still on Katz eh?

Where did I say that? Bottomline, Katz's behavior has been bizarre over the past several months. And that's being kind. To paraphrase The Katz Group's letter from September - "As city council knows, we have been looking at several outside options for sometime now."

What?

Every single party is to blame for this fiasco but Katz must shoulder his share. He was apparently quoted as saying that he's frustrated with Edmonton in light of this donation scandal. What? This is primarily The Wildrose Party's witch hunt and they're not even based in this city. Memo to Katz - This is an Alberta issue, not an Edmonton one.

oilphan 10-31-2012 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo (Post 55413071)
This is primarily The Wildrose Party's witch hunt and they're not even based in this city. Memo to Katz - This is an Alberta issue, not an Edmonton one.

I know what you are saying, but it is actually a Daryl Katz issue, not an Edmonton, Alberta, or even a Wild Rose issue. When you are in the public spotlight like Daryl is, you have to be aware that everything you do will be scrutinized. He has simply ignored this fact. He clearly has a huge ego and thinks he is untouchable.

I can't believe he (or whoever his administrator is) was so lazy that he (allegedly) wrote the cheque for the PC's that clearly contravened the maximum donation limits. Even though it was supposed to be coming from several different people. All he needed to do was have all of his people write their own cheques.

The problem is that he just bulldozes ahead without considering the implication of public relations. He could have had the same bottom line and accomplished all of the same things, but had he approached things in a humble and reasonable manner, we would all be in a much different space right now.

I am actually open to his arguments, and feel as a taxpayer that I have the right to hear them. But to be told it is none of my business is just wrong.

nabob 10-31-2012 09:04 PM

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-of-e...ions-1.1019628

City of Champs run by chumps

Billybaroo* 10-31-2012 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabob (Post 55431931)

Im sorry, you dont think the City should now look into building the arena themselves?


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