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-   -   Early Season Top 30 for 2013 (from the OHL) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1276739)

Brock 10-28-2012 02:13 PM

Early Season Top 30 for 2013 (from the OHL)
 
http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2012...nhl-draft.html

My first list of the season for OHL players. Absolutely love the quality and quantity of top end talent available (isn't every league saying that this year?).

As always, I'm willing to answer your questions.

lazyboy 10-28-2012 06:26 PM

awesome write up Brock...I guess in part because I pretty much agree with everything lol - just kidding great job as always
I had a few random thoughts:
Zadorov - as much as i HATE the knights, I love this rearguard. Agree about his offensive upside but he plays a rugged game that is almost cant miss at the pro level
Horvat - I just don't see it with this guy, never have. Everyone always has him rated highly and for the life of me I just never see it shine through, I guess time will tell
Martin - I've seen a few of his games this year and was very impressed after seeing him twice early in his career I had reservations. However for all you trivia whiz' out there, name me the last true #1 nhl goalie to come out of the ohl (raycroft/mason/1 yr wonders do not count) and more importantly why cant this league develop nhl calibre goaltending?
Maletta - I'm all over the map on this prospect which usually is a signal for me to stay away, if he finds consistency in his game maybe I will once again become a believer just like Brock's write up says and I'd concur that his past injuries haven't helped in finding his game.
Cassles - I've seen a few of the Generals games on tv and do think he could be an up and comer. His supporting cast really helps him find his game and with the other grinders on this club he does get the opportunity to shine with creativity
Tolshinsky - I've seen him play a few times and I'm still uncertain. He is dynamic that is for sure but he also goes long stretches of being invisible. Right now, since the skill is undeniable, I'm reserving judgement until he gets fully adjusted to North America
.....i was going to go on but for fear of hijacking Brock's thread I will leave it off here
thanks again, Brock

mapleleaf979 10-28-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazyboy (Post 55353539)
awesome write up Brock...I guess in part because I pretty much agree with everything lol - just kidding great job as always
I had a few random thoughts:
Zadorov - as much as i HATE the knights, I love this rearguard. Agree about his offensive upside but he plays a rugged game that is almost cant miss at the pro level
Horvat - I just don't see it with this guy, never have. Everyone always has him rated highly and for the life of me I just never see it shine through, I guess time will tell
Martin - I've seen a few of his games this year and was very impressed after seeing him twice early in his career I had reservations. However for all you trivia whiz' out there, name me the last true #1 nhl goalie to come out of the ohl (raycroft/mason/1 yr wonders do not count) and more importantly why cant this league develop nhl calibre goaltending?
Maletta - I'm all over the map on this prospect which usually is a signal for me to stay away, if he finds consistency in his game maybe I will once again become a believer just like Brock's write up says and I'd concur that his past injuries haven't helped in finding his game.
Cassles - I've seen a few of the Generals games on tv and do think he could be an up and comer. His supporting cast really helps him find his game and with the other grinders on this club he does get the opportunity to shine with creativity
Tolshinsky - I've seen him play a few times and I'm still uncertain. He is dynamic that is for sure but he also goes long stretches of being invisible. Right now, since the skill is undeniable, I'm reserving judgement until he gets fully adjusted to North America
.....i was going to go on but for fear of hijacking Brock's thread I will leave it off here
thanks again, Brock

I agree with u bigtime. Bo Horvat is extremely over rated in my opinion. This kid skating will catch up to him at the NHL level. I dont see anything but a 3rd liner at best. Horvat plays a two ways and is built very solid. I dont see high upside at all with Horvat. To me he does nothing at a high end level, just average in all areas.

Brock 10-29-2012 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazyboy (Post 55353539)
Martin - I've seen a few of his games this year and was very impressed after seeing him twice early in his career I had reservations. However for all you trivia whiz' out there, name me the last true #1 nhl goalie to come out of the ohl (raycroft/mason/1 yr wonders do not count) and more importantly why cant this league develop nhl calibre goaltending?

You definitely raise good points about the development of NHL goaltenders from our league.

But at the same time, I think that's about to change. Right now we've got two of the best goaltenders who've played in this league in a while in John Gibson and Malcolm Subban. Both are terrific NHL prospects who could easily develop into NHL starting netminders. And with Mark Visentin, Jack Campbell, and Robin Lehner in the AHL, you'd have to think this league is turning a corner in that regard. Tons of goaltending talent coming out of the O of late.

Ward Cornell 10-29-2012 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 55367283)
You definitely raise good points about the development of NHL goaltenders from our league.

But at the same time, I think that's about to change. Right now we've got two of the best goaltenders who've played in this league in a while in John Gibson and Malcolm Subban. Both are terrific NHL prospects who could easily develop into NHL starting netminders. And with Mark Visentin, Jack Campbell, and Robin Lehner in the AHL, you'd have to think this league is turning a corner in that regard. Tons of goaltending talent coming out of the O of late.

IMHO, Jordan Binnington has to be right their with Subban and Gibson.
Having said that, I have zero idea what to look for that makes a goalie a prime NHL prospect!

StormSurge9 10-29-2012 11:24 AM

I know this list seems to be first year draft eligible players.

What do you think of re-entry candidates from Guelph? Justin Auger and Zac Leslie have had great starts this season.

NHL Fanatic 10-29-2012 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazyboy (Post 55353539)
awesome write up Brock...I guess in part because I pretty much agree with everything lol - just kidding great job as always
I had a few random thoughts:
Zadorov - as much as i HATE the knights, I love this rearguard. Agree about his offensive upside but he plays a rugged game that is almost cant miss at the pro level
Horvat - I just don't see it with this guy, never have. Everyone always has him rated highly and for the life of me I just never see it shine through, I guess time will tell
Martin - I've seen a few of his games this year and was very impressed after seeing him twice early in his career I had reservations. However for all you trivia whiz' out there, name me the last true #1 nhl goalie to come out of the ohl (raycroft/mason/1 yr wonders do not count) and more importantly why cant this league develop nhl calibre goaltending?
Maletta - I'm all over the map on this prospect which usually is a signal for me to stay away, if he finds consistency in his game maybe I will once again become a believer just like Brock's write up says and I'd concur that his past injuries haven't helped in finding his game.
Cassles - I've seen a few of the Generals games on tv and do think he could be an up and comer. His supporting cast really helps him find his game and with the other grinders on this club he does get the opportunity to shine with creativity
Tolshinsky - I've seen him play a few times and I'm still uncertain. He is dynamic that is for sure but he also goes long stretches of being invisible. Right now, since the skill is undeniable, I'm reserving judgement until he gets fully adjusted to North America
.....i was going to go on but for fear of hijacking Brock's thread I will leave it off here
thanks again, Brock

I'm sorry but I will have to respectfully disagree with you on Horvat. He's a prototypical power forward, the kid does it all. He's not afraid to get to the dirty areas, sacrifices the body, good leadership qualities, and complete team player. He can definitely be a captain at the OHL and possibly even the NHL level. He's very physically mature for a kid his age. It's not about now with Horvat, wait until he reaches the NHL level 5 years down the line, he'll be stronger and faster. His offense hasn't been as effective as minor hockey but I think it will come as he's mature.

BenchedGuy 10-29-2012 12:18 PM

Good read Brock,

Question for you, I dont think he should be in the HM yet but just wondering where you view Josh Sterk? They have different skill sets but I think Sterk is just as valueable as Pedersen for the Rangers.

dean youngblood82 10-29-2012 01:13 PM

For those questioning Horvat just haven't watched him enough in my opinion. He was absolutely vital to Team Ontario's success at the U17s last year where he adopted more of an offensive role than he gets in London. Love him as a pro prospect and see him as a better player than the "overhyped" Kerby Rychel.

Rychel is a player who disappoears waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much, just doesn't create offense on his own and lacks any sort of defensive attention.


I do think the OHL is turning the page on goaltenders and feel Spencer Martin has enormous upside at the next level. He's stolen two games I've watched already this year.

dean youngblood82 10-29-2012 01:26 PM

I should mention that your ranking is good Brock. I definitely don't agree with a lot of it but we are all allowed our own opinions and what I lik ebest about yours is that you do a great job at explaining why you like a certain player. We certainly share similar views on quite a few players.

ORYX 10-29-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward Cornell (Post 55368077)
IMHO, Jordan Binnington has to be right their with Subban and Gibson.
Having said that, I have zero idea what to look for that makes a goalie a prime NHL prospect!

Personally, I think you just know it when you see it.

First times I saw Gibson, I was floored. Positionally correct, athletic, quick, reads and anticipates the play. NEVER behind the play.

Then you look at a guy, Franky Palazesse. Good OHL goalie, but in every small area of the game is a step behind Gibson. Speed, side to side motion, reading the play, posture in the net, puck handling, rebound control, positoning.

You can be good at the OHL level without having to be great at the small detail work.

When I see an NHL goalie prospect, they pretty much all do the little small things right, most of the time.

Current OHL netminders with a legit NHL shot IMO, Subban, Gibson, Binnington, Martin. Honorable mention to Mahalak, though havent seen him enough to say yes or no on the fundamentals yet.

And for all we know, these guys could end up being career AHL'ers at best. I'd suggest the top 3 wont be, and we will know more about Martin once he sustains his excellent play beyond the start of the year.

OHLFan8771 10-29-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORYX (Post 55374273)
Personally, I think you just know it when you see it.

First times I saw Gibson, I was floored. Positionally correct, athletic, quick, reads and anticipates the play. NEVER behind the play.

Then you look at a guy, Franky Palazesse. Good OHL goalie, but in every small area of the game is a step behind Gibson. Speed, side to side motion, reading the play, posture in the net, puck handling, rebound control, positoning.

You can be good at the OHL level without having to be great at the small detail work.

When I see an NHL goalie prospect, they pretty much all do the little small things right, most of the time.

Current OHL netminders with a legit NHL shot IMO, Subban, Gibson, Binnington, Martin. Honorable mention to Mahalak, though havent seen him enough to say yes or no on the fundamentals yet.

And for all we know, these guys could end up being career AHL'ers at best. I'd suggest the top 3 wont be, and we will know more about Martin once he sustains his excellent play beyond the start of the year.

You left Dansk off your list of current goalies with a shot at the NHL. What are your thoughts on him?

dean youngblood82 10-29-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHLFan8771 (Post 55374459)
You left Dansk off your list of current goalies with a shot at the NHL. What are your thoughts on him?

JP Anderson also omitted too

Brock 10-30-2012 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenchedGuy (Post 55370955)
Good read Brock,

Question for you, I dont think he should be in the HM yet but just wondering where you view Josh Sterk? They have different skill sets but I think Sterk is just as valueable as Pedersen for the Rangers.

I had Sterk ranked on my preseason list because I loved what I saw of him as a rookie. Lots of energy. A real tenacious offensive player.

Needless to say, I had high expectations for him. This year, he just hasn't taken that step forward offensively like many (I'm sure Rangers fans) had hoped. The biggest thing appears to be the fact that he still lacks strength and is undersized. While he works hard, he's too easily removed from the puck and isn't incredibly effective in the high traffic areas.

The difference between Sterk and Pedersen for the Rangers may be little, but the difference in their NHL draft potential is quite large. That said, Pedersen has been practically invisible in the few Rangers games I've seen this year.

Brock 10-30-2012 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorleaguebrian88 (Post 55369989)
I know this list seems to be first year draft eligible players.

What do you think of re-entry candidates from Guelph? Justin Auger and Zac Leslie have had great starts this season.

I always keep the re-entry guys on a separate list.

Right now, I'd say both are right at the top of that list, along with the likes of Dane Fox, Chris Festarini, Cameron Brace, and Guelph's Zach Mitchell.

I thought both guys were candidates for a late round pick last year. I had Leslie ranked in the low 40's (of OHL players) and Auger was on my HM list.

Auger's massive frame is going to be appealing to NHL teams. He looks a tad quicker and more mobile this year and he's really become a net presence. If he continues to produce offensively, he's a lock to be drafted.

Leslie has just improved in every area. He's taken his game to the next level. I think he's definitely turned himself into an NHL prospect (he's certainly not much different than a guy like Dylan DeMelo in Mississauga).

Brock 10-30-2012 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ward Cornell (Post 55368077)
IMHO, Jordan Binnington has to be right their with Subban and Gibson.
Having said that, I have zero idea what to look for that makes a goalie a prime NHL prospect!

Binnington has been absolutely fantastic this year.

That said, we've seen these sort of stretches from him before. It's going to take more than that for me to put him in the same group of Subban and Gibson as an NHL prospect.

If he sustains this level of play for a whole season, then we'll talk. Consistency has always been his issue, not talent.

ORYX 10-30-2012 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHLFan8771 (Post 55374459)
You left Dansk off your list of current goalies with a shot at the NHL. What are your thoughts on him?

Dansk, from what I have read and the very limited action that I've seen him is a great young goalie. Very big in the net. I forgot all about him. I'm assuming he has NHL ability as well judging alone on where he was drafted. Havent seen him play in the OHL yet though.

JP Anderson is what I'd call a good junior goalie. I see him going the way of the Adam Dennis', Gerald Coleman, Thomas McCallum's. Will work within an NHL teams system for a while, but unlikely to make the jump to the NHL (though McCollum still has an opportunity, his professional stats, even at the ECHL level are nothing to write home about).

People forget that there are only 60 NHL goaltending jobs. Every single year there are goalies as good as Anderson, not just in the OHL, but the QMJHL and the WHL. Its the same reason NHL teams don't often draft goalies very early, unless they are the Gibsons, Subbans, Fluery's, the goalies who are head and shoulders above the rest of the good goalies. And even sometimes those ones dont ever make it either.

The moral of my story is just because the goalie is good in junior, doesnt mean they'll even get a sniff professionally. NHL teams are looking for those 2-3 bonafide goalie prospects to supercede the NHL starter they have now, in 5 years time, not a goalie who will be mediocre in the AHL for 5 years, then be done. They can sign those guys as free agents, ala, JP Anderson.

Tim Wallach 10-30-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 55392609)
I had Sterk ranked on my preseason list because I loved what I saw of him as a rookie. Lots of energy. A real tenacious offensive player.

Needless to say, I had high expectations for him. This year, he just hasn't taken that step forward offensively like many (I'm sure Rangers fans) had hoped. The biggest thing appears to be the fact that he still lacks strength and is undersized. While he works hard, he's too easily removed from the puck and isn't incredibly effective in the high traffic areas.

The difference between Sterk and Pedersen for the Rangers may be little, but the difference in their NHL draft potential is quite large. That said, Pedersen has been practically invisible in the few Rangers games I've seen this year.


This is bang on the money if you ask me. Having seen every Ranger game this year, Pedersen is definitely far ahead of Sterk in terms of pro potential. And before too many Ranger fans jump in to criticize Pedersen for not producing and going dormant, allow me to point out that he has definitely shown a number of flashes this year driving the net with puck control, going to the front of the net and also has exhibited sound defensive positioning.

Sterk, on the other hand, has contributed nothing offensively, has looked over-matched in the faceoff circle and has constantly panicked and turned the puck over in traffic areas - including in front of his own net. He strikes me as a player who just hasn't caught up to the speed of the OHL yet. He constantly has a fraction of a second less than his brain needs to process the situation.

Add in that Pedersen is a much bigger, more rugged body and it's not even close if you ask me.

BenchedGuy 10-30-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Wallach (Post 55394569)
This is bang on the money if you ask me. Having seen every Ranger game this year, Pedersen is definitely far ahead of Sterk in terms of pro potential. And before too many Ranger fans jump in to criticize Pedersen for not producing and going dormant, allow me to point out that he has definitely shown a number of flashes this year driving the net with puck control, going to the front of the net and also has exhibited sound defensive positioning.

Sterk, on the other hand, has contributed nothing offensively, has looked over-matched in the faceoff circle and has constantly panicked and turned the puck over in traffic areas - including in front of his own net. He strikes me as a player who just hasn't caught up to the speed of the OHL yet. He constantly has a fraction of a second less than his brain needs to process the situation.

Add in that Pedersen is a much bigger, more rugged body and it's not even close if you ask me.

I think you both are right on Sterk. I just feel that Pedersen has the tools of a pro, big body, at times protects the puck, but he doesn't use the tools he has consistantly....not even close to consistantly. Thats why on a production/current value basis I had them in the same catergory. Honestly, as much as it pains me, I dont think that Pedersen should be an HM at this point but that just my opinion.

Ward Cornell 10-30-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenchedGuy (Post 55395697)
I think you both are right on Sterk. I just feel that Pedersen has the tools of a pro, big body, at times protects the puck, but he doesn't use the tools he has consistantly....not even close to consistantly. Thats why on a production/current value basis I had them in the same catergory. Honestly, as much as it pains me, I dont think that Pedersen should be an HM at this point but that just my opinion.

Yeah....but IMHO in Pedersons 4th year he may be a really good OHL player. Not sure if his future is the NHL though!

dean youngblood82 10-30-2012 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORYX (Post 55393605)
Dansk, from what I have read and the very limited action that I've seen him is a great young goalie. Very big in the net. I forgot all about him. I'm assuming he has NHL ability as well judging alone on where he was drafted. Havent seen him play in the OHL yet though.

JP Anderson is what I'd call a good junior goalie. I see him going the way of the Adam Dennis', Gerald Coleman, Thomas McCallum's. Will work within an NHL teams system for a while, but unlikely to make the jump to the NHL (though McCollum still has an opportunity, his professional stats, even at the ECHL level are nothing to write home about).

People forget that there are only 60 NHL goaltending jobs. Every single year there are goalies as good as Anderson, not just in the OHL, but the QMJHL and the WHL. Its the same reason NHL teams don't often draft goalies very early, unless they are the Gibsons, Subbans, Fluery's, the goalies who are head and shoulders above the rest of the good goalies. And even sometimes those ones dont ever make it either.

The moral of my story is just because the goalie is good in junior, doesnt mean they'll even get a sniff professionally. NHL teams are looking for those 2-3 bonafide goalie prospects to supercede the NHL starter they have now, in 5 years time, not a goalie who will be mediocre in the AHL for 5 years, then be done. They can sign those guys as free agents, ala, JP Anderson.


Actually, I think the biggest factor is "opportunity". Many of these goaltenders have what it takes skillwise to play in the NHL but it becomes a matter of timing and opportunity. Most goalies go through streaks of good to great play and if there is an opportunity for a call up to take advantage of then it can be a big factor in becoming a legit NHL goaltender...as long as they are somewhat consistent.

ORYX 10-30-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean youngblood82 (Post 55397085)
Actually, I think the biggest factor is "opportunity". Many of these goaltenders have what it takes skillwise to play in the NHL but it becomes a matter of timing and opportunity. Most goalies go through streaks of good to great play and if there is an opportunity for a call up to take advantage of then it can be a big factor in becoming a legit NHL goaltender...as long as they are somewhat consistent.

I agree to a degree.

Opportunity plays a large factor in it. But only when you are looking at goalies who otherwise arent good enough to push for an NHL crease.

The best young goalie prospects in the AHL/NHL push those infront of them out of the way and create their own opportunity. They don't sit dormant waiting for someone to get hurt etc. Their opportunity is a result of their being a great young goalie

Sure injuries, poor play lead to goalies getting a chance, but alot of goalies who play a handful of NHL games as a result of that, it isnt because they were NHL quality tenders, but because their team had little choice, and ran with them until a better option came alone.

Look at Schnieder in Vancouver. Theres a goalie that played his way into the NHL, and created an opportunity to start by being better then the bonafide starter. He is an NHL goalie. On the contrary, look at Jeff DesLauriers. He had 48 starts for the oilers a couple years back. Does that make him an NHL quality goalie? Not in my opinion seeing as it only happened because of injuries, a cheap owner and drive to pick first overall. Where is he since then? He's had 4 NHL starts since.....on a better team, but once which also sucked.

Marky9er 11-10-2012 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORYX (Post 55374273)
Personally, I think you just know it when you see it.

First times I saw Gibson, I was floored. Positionally correct, athletic, quick, reads and anticipates the play. NEVER behind the play.

Then you look at a guy, Franky Palazesse. Good OHL goalie, but in every small area of the game is a step behind Gibson. Speed, side to side motion, reading the play, posture in the net, puck handling, rebound control, positoning.

You can be good at the OHL level without having to be great at the small detail work.

When I see an NHL goalie prospect, they pretty much all do the little small things right, most of the time.

Current OHL netminders with a legit NHL shot IMO, Subban, Gibson, Binnington, Martin. Honorable mention to Mahalak, though havent seen him enough to say yes or no on the fundamentals yet.

And for all we know, these guys could end up being career AHL'ers at best. I'd suggest the top 3 wont be, and we will know more about Martin once he sustains his excellent play beyond the start of the year.

I'm not an expert on goaltending, this is kind of an aside.....but what about Machovsky kept him from getting drafted? I thought he looked like a prime prospect. I get that Brampton is/has been a very conservative team and therefore a bit of a shelter for a goaltender....but his size and movement looked real good to me. What did I miss?

krazy kanuck 11-10-2012 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marky9er (Post 55667835)
I'm not an expert on goaltending, this is kind of an aside.....but what about Machovsky kept him from getting drafted?

Coolest mask in the league...

OHLFan8771 11-10-2012 03:32 PM

Stephen Harper is at 12 on this list but is dropping fast. He has been practically non existent in most of Erie's games and his on pace to only score 20 goals when he had 24 as a 16 year old.


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