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-   -   Why so much hatred and criticism towards the players? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1276867)

Puckgenius* 10-28-2012 07:07 PM

Why so much hatred and criticism towards the players?
 
Everyone I hear, all they say is negative thoughts and opinions towards the players. "theyre already making so much money, ill put my money and time towards minor or other leagues who care more about the sport. "All they care about is the money, which they already have enough of" Everyone assumes its just the players wanting more money.

BLONG7 10-28-2012 07:09 PM

Not hatred on my part, they just say and do some strange things...they have no idea how good they have it...if they don't want to play, then quit and buy a team, and show everyone how easy it is...;)

Hynh 10-28-2012 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckgenius (Post 55356367)
Everyone assumes its just the players wanting more money.

No matter what side you are on, I don't think you can deny that the main issue is how the money is split.

Sydor25 10-28-2012 07:15 PM

I have no hatred for the players.

I just don't understand their position or end game because they won't tell us their position. Then some open their mouths and speak about things that are not even in the current proposals, like salary roll backs. It just confuses the masses and sounds like spin to get the PR on their side.

The whole "honoring" contracts is another way to confuse the public. The fact that all contracts signed during the last CBA where never "honored" as the NHLPA claims they should be is never spoken, it is just about paying them the number on their contract, which goes against the last CBA. It's misleading to the public and is pure PR/propaganda.

Crows* 10-28-2012 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydor25 (Post 55356597)
I have no hatred for the players.

I just don't understand their position or end game because they won't tell us their position. Then some open their mouths and speak about things that are not even in the current proposals, like salary roll backs. It just confuses the masses and sounds like spin to get the PR on their side.

The whole "honoring" contracts is another way to confuse the public. The fact that all contracts signed during the last CBA where never "honored" as the NHLPA claims they should be is never spoken, it is just about paying them the number on their contract, which goes against the last CBA. It's misleading to the public and is pure PR/propaganda.

ONe of the best posts i've read on here in a long time.

Erik Estrada 10-28-2012 07:22 PM

Human nature... Because they talk directly or are concerned about money. People tolerate it from owners and agents, not from players.

"The same people who in the old days would have immediately considered their heroes greedy if the news had broken that they had asked poor old Conn Smythe or Jim Norris for a raise - and would have viewed anyone earning a salary three or four times those of the average working stiff's for playing a game as entirely immoral - started to find themselves coming down on the player's (and by extension, his clever agent's) side. Just as long as he himself wasn't out front doing the asking, just as long as he appreciated his lot in life and knew his place, just as long as he remained loyal, diligent, honest worker who cared as much for the home team as those buying the tickets to watch him in action",

Stephen Brunt, Searching for Bobby Orr.

Sydor25 10-28-2012 07:23 PM

If you look at the pure goals of each side, the owners are more aligned with what the mass public wants. The owners want a level playing field and as much parity as possible. The players want super teams and limited parity to maximize their money. Of course, both sides want the most money possible, but they have a different way of acheiving it.

If you are a fan of the super team, then you want the players system. If you are a fan of the sport, then you want to owners system.

If you look at the greatest revenue generating leagues, the NFL and MLB, you can see that the NFL operates closer to the owners system and MLB operates closer to the players system. Fehr is a huge fan of the MLB system.

Sydor25 10-28-2012 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Estrada (Post 55356819)
Human nature... Because they talk directly or are concerned about money. People tolerate it from owners and agents, not from players.

I think agents are the most hated of the groups. I don't think anyone tolerates it from agents and most blame the agents for the escalation of salaries.

MetalGodAOD 10-28-2012 07:25 PM

I dislike them because they treat the fans like we're idiots.

BLONG7 10-28-2012 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydor25 (Post 55356837)
If you look at the pure goals of each side, the owners are more aligned with what the mass public wants. The owners want a level playing field and as much parity as possible. The players want super teams and limited parity to maximize their money. Of course, both sides want the most money possible, but they have a different way of acheiving it.

If you are a fan of the super team, then you want the players system. If you are a fan of the sport, then you want to owners system.

If you look at the greatest revenue generating leagues, the NFL and MLB, you can see that the NFL operates closer to the owners system and MLB operates closer to the players system. Fehr is a huge fan of the MLB system.

I was a fan of MLB until no World Series in 1994...haven't been back...who was running the show in MLB for the players that year? Nuff said...

Puckgenius* 10-28-2012 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD (Post 55356895)
I dislike them because they treat the fans like we're idiots.

Who, the players or owners? Why do you say that?

Without fans, all players would be working 9-5 office jobs making $16/hr.

Confucius 10-28-2012 07:30 PM

Have the fans ever supported the players in a lockout / strike? I think not. Seems to me fans just want to watch the game and feel the players should just take what is offered. If they don't the players are interfering with the fans entertainment.

Colin226 10-28-2012 07:35 PM

I'm with the players.. People can't relate to the mental and physical strain it takes to play at their level.. They deserve their fair pay and I really believe this is about the owners not wanting to share more of their personal revenues

Puckgenius* 10-28-2012 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stix and Stones (Post 55357041)
Have the fans ever supported the players in a lockout / strike? I think not. Seems to me fans just want to watch the game and feel the players should just take what is offered. If they don't the players are interfering with the fans entertainment.

How fans and the general public tend to see this is basically a strike. No different than a local company going on strike and the staff walking with signs up saying theyre not making enough money and refuse to work until conditions and wages are up.

So the general public sees that the players arent playing, see the players are being selfish and greedy cause theyre wanting more money and unhappy with what theyre currently making. WHEN in the real world, 99.9% of society make pennies compared to the players.

DuklaNation 10-28-2012 07:37 PM

I find your use of the word hatred out of place. I just see that the players need to sacrifice in some areas in order to keep this league functioning. Otherwise, contraction is necessary. They really need to accept that some owners will make a lot of money. Thats true in all industries.

ChillyPalmer 10-28-2012 07:38 PM

I understand the ones who are angry because they want the players to just bite the bullet and get it over with, because the owners are gonna win.

The ones who just always side with the owners however, are a mysterious bunch to me.

It just seems like jealousy.

JGalt 10-28-2012 07:42 PM

Part of it seems to be a total misconception that the players are employees of the owners. Players are not being paid to do a job, not mostly. Players are paid because the ARE the PRODUCT. It drives me nuts every time I read someone saying something to the effect of, "I'd never get away with that at my job!"

moosehead81 10-28-2012 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydor25 (Post 55356597)
I have no hatred for the players.

I just don't understand their position or end game because they won't tell us their position. Then some open their mouths and speak about things that are not even in the current proposals, like salary roll backs. It just confuses the masses and sounds like spin to get the PR on their side.

The whole "honoring" contracts is another way to confuse the public. The fact that all contracts signed during the last CBA where never "honored" as the NHLPA claims they should be is never spoken, it is just about paying them the number on their contract, which goes against the last CBA. It's misleading to the public and is pure PR/propaganda.

Actually, the exact same thing could be said about the league; don't understand the NHL position or end game, Bettman and Daly 'confuse the masses, sounding like spin to get the PR on their side", etc, etc, etc.

Sydor25 10-28-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moosehead81 (Post 55357453)
Actually, the exact same thing could be said about the league; don't understand the NHL position or end game, Bettman and Daly 'confuse the masses, sounding like spin to get the PR on their side", etc, etc, etc.

Give specific examples please.

The owners have said the players make too much money. Their proposals support that stance. The NHL's end game is to reduce salaries, either via HRR% and escrow or locking them out.

You can disagree with the stance, but it isn't spin. Both sides will blame the other for the failure to get a deal done, but that is expected.


Until one side changes their stance, there isn't any NHL hockey. Most believe that the owners can wait longer than the players, so the players take more heat the longer the lockout drags out.

traparatus 10-28-2012 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydor25 (Post 55356597)
I have no hatred for the players.

I just don't understand their position or end game because they won't tell us their position. Then some open their mouths and speak about things that are not even in the current proposals, like salary roll backs. It just confuses the masses and sounds like spin to get the PR on their side.

The whole "honoring" contracts is another way to confuse the public. The fact that all contracts signed during the last CBA where never "honored" as the NHLPA claims they should be is never spoken, it is just about paying them the number on their contract, which goes against the last CBA. It's misleading to the public and is pure PR/propaganda.

I agree with this.

I do hate players' refusal to learn from their experience. The system established by the last CBA has benefited the league but it has also allowed players to maximize their earnings. It is unbelievable to me that NHLPA can complain about the league constantly taking from them while their membership has effectively doubled their earnings over the last eight years. I do not understand how any player can look back at 2004 and not think that they messed it up. They lost a year of their career, over 1 billion dollars and we lost a season of hockey. Why would anyone want to repeat that?

AHockeyGameBrokeOut* 10-28-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckgenius (Post 55356367)
Everyone I hear, all they say is negative thoughts and opinions towards the players. "theyre already making so much money, ill put my money and time towards minor or other leagues who care more about the sport. "All they care about is the money, which they already have enough of" Everyone assumes its just the players wanting more money.

It's not all the players. Jagr and Modano seem to know what they're talking about. It's the Players' Union guys giving this message that they were probably told to say by the NHLPA: "We're not gonna get paid, they is cuttin' our monies!"

It's offensive and insulting to the fans. They're lying. They'll get every dollar that is owed to them, cheating them would be illegal. The Players' Union thinks we are all idiots, and they are wrong.

LickTheEnvelope 10-28-2012 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydor25 (Post 55356597)
I have no hatred for the players.

I just don't understand their position or end game because they won't tell us their position. Then some open their mouths and speak about things that are not even in the current proposals, like salary roll backs. It just confuses the masses and sounds like spin to get the PR on their side.

The whole "honoring" contracts is another way to confuse the public. The fact that all contracts signed during the last CBA where never "honored" as the NHLPA claims they should be is never spoken, it is just about paying them the number on their contract, which goes against the last CBA. It's misleading to the public and is pure PR/propaganda.

All this and i'm starting to feel like the only reason they are holding off is because they are mad about the "losing" the last CBA negotiations, despite coming out the clear winners.

Freudian 10-28-2012 08:16 PM

It's mainly because their union keeps stalling the process of getting a new CBA done by proposing the same thing that has zero chance of getting accepted.

Also, some of the players are vocal and stupid. That annoys fans. The owners wisely are completely silent, letting Bettman be the lightning rod for whatever anger is directed towards NHL.

me2 10-28-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puckgenius (Post 55356367)
Everyone I hear, all they say is negative thoughts and opinions towards the players. "theyre already making so much money, ill put my money and time towards minor or other leagues who care more about the sport. "All they care about is the money, which they already have enough of" Everyone assumes its just the players wanting more money.

Everything comes down to money. I'm pretty sure the players would accept the UFA age being raised to 37 if the owners offered them 75% of HRR in return. Likewise I'm pretty sure if the players rang up the owners and offered to take a 30% of HRR in return for UFA age being 21 the owners would accept.

Everyone has a price.

CN_paladin 10-28-2012 08:20 PM

Most of them clearly seem to have little understanding or none whatsover of the both sides' offers.


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