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-   -   What to do with Tatar? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1276935)

jroc86 10-28-2012 10:49 PM

What to do with Tatar?
 
Tatars looking pretty hot right out of the gate this year. Although hes the consensus 2nd banana to Nyquist for getting the nod to the big club (should a season actually come to fruition) what "should" be the play with this kid?

Hes not going be be an NHL superstar but I see an effective tweener 2nd/3rd liner with speed, work ethic, and pretty good offensive instincts. Will he marinate for another year then get the nod? Will he want to remain with the organization if he produces and works hard all year to no avail? Do we bring him on fulltime as the 13/14 guy and see what he can do with bigger minutes when the inevitable injuries show up?

Personally, id like to see the last option. IMO its time to see what hes got at the top level - this could also allow Kenny to let Cleary go to UFA easier and use his leftover cap-space towards something.

The Nose 10-28-2012 10:56 PM

Well its unlikely he makes the team any time soon since we have so many NHL ready players. I'd love to see him playing on the 3rd line in the next couple years.

Guru Meditation 10-28-2012 10:59 PM

If he keeps playing the way he is, they'll make room for him, even if it's on the 4th line. He's playing like an NHLer.

Anchor Town 10-28-2012 11:13 PM

He's 21. He'll be on the team full time next year

The Nose 10-28-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the banks (Post 55362317)
He's 21. He'll be on the team full time next year

He *should* be.

pdd 10-28-2012 11:31 PM

I've been saying for a while that the reason everyone was so high on Nyquist was because he's 2-3 years older than guys like Tatar, Jurco, etc.

Tatar is miles ahead of where Nyquist was at his age; he might even be the better player right now.

The question is... if Brunner, Nyquist, and Tatar are all deserving of spots in the top six/nine...

Do we go with this?

Franzen/Datsyuk/Tatar
Nyquist/Zetterberg/Brunner
Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abby/Helm/Tootoo
Miller
Mursak
Eaves LTIR
Emmerton LTIR

(yes, I specifically left out "The Todd".)

RedWingsNow* 10-28-2012 11:37 PM

Tatar is a good bet to leave the Wings and play in the KHL next year, IMO.

RedWingsNow* 10-28-2012 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 55362799)
I've been saying for a while that the reason everyone was so high on Nyquist was because he's 2-3 years older than guys like Tatar, Jurco, etc.

Tatar is miles ahead of where Nyquist was at his age; he might even be the better player right now.

The question is... if Brunner, Nyquist, and Tatar are all deserving of spots in the top six/nine...

Do we go with this?

Franzen/Datsyuk/Tatar
Nyquist/Zetterberg/Brunner
Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abby/Helm/Tootoo
Miller
Mursak
Eaves LTIR
Emmerton LTIR

(yes, I specifically left out "The Todd".)

The problem with is that you know damn well that Babcock isn't going to start a rookie on D and 2 rookies and a Swiss League vet up front.

The problem is that the Wings are bottlenecking their prospects

MBauer 10-28-2012 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 55362799)
I've been saying for a while that the reason everyone was so high on Nyquist was because he's 2-3 years older than guys like Tatar, Jurco, etc.

Tatar is miles ahead of where Nyquist was at his age; he might even be the better player right now.

The question is... if Brunner, Nyquist, and Tatar are all deserving of spots in the top six/nine...

Do we go with this?

Franzen/Datsyuk/Tatar
Nyquist/Zetterberg/Brunner
Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abby/Helm/Tootoo
Miller
Mursak
Eaves LTIR
Emmerton LTIR



(yes, I specifically left out "The Todd".)



:help: Tatar is pretty much a year younger then nyquist and he is certainly not miles ahead of where Nyquist was last year, he might be equal at best. Nyquist has the tools to be more effective in the nhl then Tatar imo, he plays a better all around game.

Guru Meditation 10-28-2012 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBauer (Post 55363279)
:help: Tatar is pretty much a year younger then nyquist and he is certainly not miles ahead of where Nyquist was last year, he might be equal at best. Nyquist has the tools to be more effective in the nhl then Tatar imo, he plays a better all around game.

In the AHL so far this year, it hasn't been that way. Tatar has been better away from the puck. Tatar is the guy who looks like a million bucks even if he doesn't score a single point because he's skating so hard and pressuring defenses.

Nyquist has been lethal on his chances, but he hasn't been all over the place like Tatar.

TS Quint 10-29-2012 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 55363015)
The problem with is that you know damn well that Babcock isn't going to start a rookie on D and 2 rookies and a Swiss League vet up front.

The problem is that the Wings are bottlenecking their prospects

I think the problem is the prospects that are close to being ready are all the same, small and skilled. Brunner/Z/Nyquist is way to small of a line to compete. The wingers are going to get killed in the corners and I don't want Z playing in the corners the whole game because he'll end up missing 40 games.

The Nose 10-29-2012 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 55362963)
Tatar is a good bet to leave the Wings and play in the KHL next year, IMO.

What makes you think that?
If we lose Tatar to the KHL, I will be so pissed at Holland & the front office.

The Zetterberg Era 10-29-2012 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 55362963)
Tatar is a good bet to leave the Wings and play in the KHL next year, IMO.

Pretty much this, he has to be on the team by the end of this year or promised by the team next year or I think he will leave. He still has the NHL dream, but he has been pretty open about how disappointed he is that he isn't in Detroit already. The guy has good options, he is not going to sit around forever.

The Nose 10-29-2012 12:16 AM

There's no way they would just let Tatar walk... Would they?

WingedWheel1987 10-29-2012 12:21 AM

Wave goodbye to him. That's all you can really do.

cjm502 10-29-2012 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 (Post 55364073)
There's no way they would just let Tatar walk... Would they?

Of course they would, he just isn't overripe enough!

RedWingsNow* 10-29-2012 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 (Post 55363665)
What makes you think that?
If we lose Tatar to the KHL, I will be so pissed at Holland & the front office.

At some point, this kids wants a big league salary.
Even more than that, at some point you want to make progress.

3 years straight of GR.

We're killing our prospects and I guarantee you that Detroit is developing a rep among youngsters as a place that doesn't give kids a chance.
Mursak should have gotten his chance two years ago, but...Mike Modano and company
Nyquist should have been in the AHL after his sophomore year and getting his rookie shot last year. Tatar should have had his rookie shot last year.

I can't think of a single prospect who spent 2-3 years in GR who I can say, "Yep, we developed him well."

Maybe Kopecky.

Anchor Town 10-29-2012 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 55364295)
At some point, this kids wants a big league salary.
Even more than that, at some point you want to make progress.

3 years straight of GR.

We're killing our prospects and I guarantee you that Detroit is developing a rep among youngsters as a place that doesn't give kids a chance.
Mursak should have gotten his chance two years ago, but...Mike Modano and company
Nyquist should have been in the AHL after his sophomore year and getting his rookie shot last year. Tatar should have had his rookie shot last year.

I can't think of a single prospect who spent 2-3 years in GR who I can say, "Yep, we developed him well."

Maybe Kopecky.

Hudler?

sully61 10-29-2012 01:01 AM

Abdelkader and Helm didn't spend a whole lot of time in GR if I remember correctly

jroc86 10-29-2012 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 55362799)
I've been saying for a while that the reason everyone was so high on Nyquist was because he's 2-3 years older than guys like Tatar, Jurco, etc.

Tatar is miles ahead of where Nyquist was at his age; he might even be the better player right now.

The question is... if Brunner, Nyquist, and Tatar are all deserving of spots in the top six/nine...

Do we go with this?

Franzen/Datsyuk/Tatar
Nyquist/Zetterberg/Brunner
Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abby/Helm/Tootoo
Miller
Mursak
Eaves LTIR
Emmerton LTIR

(yes, I specifically left out "The Todd".)

I really like the idea of trying Filp at center if we end up with a few kids sticking. It would give us the best 1,2,3 in the league IMO and if enough firepower is on their wings we could have three lines that are a threat to score everygame. Of course this would be entirerly contingent on the old dogs (sammy, Bert, Cleary) staying healthy and not regressing and the rookies fitting in.

In a perfect world ...
Nyquist Datsyuk Samulsen
Franzen Zetterberg Brunner
Tatar Filp Bertuzzi
Adbelkader Helm Tootoo
Miller/Eaves/Mursak

*Trade Cleary for a big physical dman. Ie, Regehr, D Murray, Volchenkov.

Guru Meditation 10-29-2012 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sully61 (Post 55365001)
Abdelkader and Helm didn't spend a whole lot of time in GR if I remember correctly

That's becoming the sad trend in Detroit. If you're big or a grinder, you get shot out of a cannon into the NHL. If you're a skill guy, you have to pay your dues twice over, and even that might not be enough.

I don't understand where Holland's head is at. The Wings' situation on the wing is not THAT solid or stable. These guys deserve a look. If they don't get that, I'll be really disappointed. Even if Tatar and Nyquist show the loyalty to stay ANOTHER year and thus there's no huge loss, it's still mishandling them.

FissionFire 10-29-2012 01:43 AM

Up until this season Tatar never played like a guy who was ready to be solid NHL player. If they have a season and Tatar is still playing this way, he'll make the team, no doubt in my mind. He's definitely playing at a much higher level than Nyquist right now.

Frk It 10-29-2012 01:57 AM

knee-jerk reactions to Tatar having more points than Nyquist through a very small number of games lol....

pdd 10-29-2012 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBauer (Post 55363279)
:help: Tatar is pretty much a year younger then nyquist and he is certainly not miles ahead of where Nyquist was last year, he might be equal at best. Nyquist has the tools to be more effective in the nhl then Tatar imo, he plays a better all around game.

Tatar is faster, more physical, better defensively, and generally stronger. Nyquist has more offensive dazzle, and Tatar is obviously more effective offensively right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frk It (Post 55365911)
knee-jerk reactions to Tatar having more points than Nyquist through a very small number of games lol....

And all of the other things he does better than Nyquist.

Frk It 10-29-2012 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 55365963)
Tatar is faster, more physical, better defensively, and generally stronger. Nyquist has more offensive dazzle, and Tatar is obviously more effective offensively right now.



And all of the other things he does better than Nyquist.

If all of those things were true he would have been called up over Nyquist last year. You don't get all those things overnight.

Also Nyquist is a much better skater than Tatar, its not even close really in terms of pure speed.

Nyquist is also bigger, and has produced at a more impressive rate than Tatar up to both their points in their career.

Babcock, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk have all praised Nyquist extensively, and seem ready to deem him the future.

The only part of your post I can agree with is Tatar may be more effective offensively right now, and even so that is by a very small margin, and it is only a handful of games into the AHL season LOL.


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