HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   The Business of Hockey (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=124)
-   -   Why Paul Kelly thinks expansion would help end NHL lockout (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1277151)

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 10-29-2012 04:16 PM

Why Paul Kelly thinks expansion would help end NHL lockout
 
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...L-lockout.html

BruinsBtn 10-29-2012 05:08 PM

What were the players thinking firing this guy?

He's all about creative solutions to grow the game that will help both sides.

A pox on the NHLPA.

kmad 10-29-2012 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsBtn (Post 55378185)
What were the players thinking firing this guy?

He's all about creative solutions to grow the game that will help both sides.

A pox on the NHLPA.

He was "too chummy" with Gary Bettman.

Hanklite* 10-29-2012 05:18 PM

Makes perfect sense, doubt it even gets discussed.

Bill_Crosby* 10-29-2012 05:18 PM

The NHL should hire him for lulz

BruinsBtn 10-29-2012 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg (Post 55378393)
He was "too chummy" with Gary Bettman.

Because everyone knows the best way to get a good deal is to be the biggest SOB possible.

txomisc 10-29-2012 05:57 PM

The 10 year cba thing makes too much sense. You can gradually reduce the players % and still manage to make it so the distribution is 50/50 over the entire life of the deal.

Do Make Say Think 10-29-2012 05:59 PM

The PA needs to fire Fehr, apologize to all the fans and especially to Mr Kelly and hire the man.

Harry22 10-29-2012 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsBtn (Post 55378185)
What were the players thinking firing this guy?

He's all about creative solutions to grow the game that will help both sides.

A pox on the NHLPA.

Because he was being too nice to the NHL and was going to avoid a lockout.

jkrdevil 10-29-2012 06:04 PM

Well expansion fees are not ever going to count as HRR because it is a one time fee. Basically revenues would go drastically up one year and then drastically back down which would cause havoc on the cap and result in high escrow.

However, a portion of expansion fees could be used as that "make good" fund in the owners proposal.

Harry22 10-29-2012 06:07 PM

If Kelly was in charge of the NHLPA, there would have been a deal in place by September.

This shows the agenda the NHLPA heads had 3 years ago. Disturbing.

Harry22 10-29-2012 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_Crosby (Post 55378499)
The NHL should hire him for lulz

Would be lolsy and trololol worthy.

Swarez 10-29-2012 06:26 PM

-so he wants a step down in split for 53-54% for a few years, down to 50%- Hasn't the league already said no to this? Isn't that why we don't have a deal, both sides have said long term 50-50% is acceptable, its just how they get there. It can go under 50% for players if revenues grow, doubt players ever go for that.

-Why would any owner especially a poor club or Toronto be ok with giving up half of expansion fee's, a one time infusion of 10Million or 20 Million is a big difference. I don't think we will ever see this be part of HRR in our lifetime. I'm a pretty pro player guy, but this is something owners shouldn't give up.

-He thinks the 3.3 Billion in revenue will get to $5 Billion in 1 or 2 years. A 35% increase because of expansion, new Canadian TV deal. Canadian teams will help, but really just making it harder for poor teams to compete because Canadians teams will just spend to cap. Wouldn't a better solution be to charge a relocation fee for teams coming to Canada, you wouldn't be watering down your product any more.

He just seems like an optimist, with none of his ideas really workable to either group.

Krishna 10-29-2012 06:29 PM

If he was still with the PA, we'd be watching hockey tonight.

Riptide 10-29-2012 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swarez99 (Post 55380413)
-so he wants a step down in split for 53-54% for a few years, down to 50%- Hasn't the league already said no to this? Isn't that why we don't have a deal, both sides have said long term 50-50% is acceptable, its just how they get there. It can go under 50% for players if revenues grow, doubt players ever go for that.

No the PA has never proposed ANYTHING using a % to determine the split. Everything the PA has proposed is with a de-linked/fixed number and the reduction in the split has come due to growth.

And what he also said, is that they average the life of the deal at 50%. The PA's offers have had the life around 52-53%.

So he's proposing something like this: 54, 52, 50, 50, 49, 48, 48, 49, 50, 50. Thus giving the PA time to lower the split and NOT affecting players via escrow, while giving the NHL 4 years at under 50% to make some money, while having a 50% average split over the life of the deal.

But if the PA isn't able to offer 55, 53, 50 (in % terms), then there's no chance in hell they'd offer or accept something like what Kelly proposed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swarez99 (Post 55380413)
-Why would any owner especially a poor club or Toronto be ok with giving up half of expansion fee's, a one time infusion of 10Million or 20 Million is a big difference. I don't think we will ever see this be part of HRR in our lifetime. I'm a pretty pro player guy, but this is something owners shouldn't give up.

Poor clubs might have some concerns over this, but Toronto makes 80m plus by playing. If they can get a favorable CBA AND play, then they come out way ahead, over not playing and still getting that nice CBA.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swarez99 (Post 55380413)
-He thinks the 3.3 Billion in revenue will get to $5 Billion in 1 or 2 years. A 35% increase because of expansion, new Canadian TV deal. Canadian teams will help, but really just making it harder for poor teams to compete because Canadians teams will just spend to cap. Wouldn't a better solution be to charge a relocation fee for teams coming to Canada, you wouldn't be watering down your product any more.

He just seems like an optimist, with none of his ideas really workable to either group.

I think 5B in 2-3 years is pretty optimistic, however in 4-7 years it's realistic with the growth the league has had over the life of the last CBA. Add in two teams in Canada (say Toronto #2 and Quebec City), and that will only shorten that time - especially with a new Canadian TV deal being needed. If there was ever a time to expand into Canada, sometime before that deal is up is the perfect time to really cash in - both expansion fee's and with a new TV deal.

Yes I think he's an optimist, however I don't think those idea's he proposed would be unworkable issues. The PA doesn't seem to have major issues with giving up some concessions (% split - there's obvious issues with the UFA/contract stuff), but how they go about it. The fact that Fehr is such an ass that he has to 'win' and can't be bothered to negotiate using a % (55% with 4% growth covers the PAs share) is absolutely ********, and is one of the main reasons we're not watching hockey.

Bonzai12 10-29-2012 08:04 PM

Expansion's a terrible option IMO

You already have probably at least 6 teams that are in dire straits money wise. You add 2 teams and bring in more money for the short term, but you'll be in new questionable markets and may have 8 teams in dire straits the next time the CBA comes around. You can't just keep patching league financials with franchise fees. You can only dilute the product so much.

Riptide 10-29-2012 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzai12 (Post 55382865)
Expansion's a terrible option IMO

You already have probably at least 6 teams that are in dire straits money wise. You add 2 teams and bring in more money for the short term, but you'll be in new questionable markets and may have 8 teams in dire straits the next time the CBA comes around. You can't just keep patching league financials with franchise fees. You can only dilute the product so much.

Toronto/Southern Ontario or Quebec City is a questionable market? When Basillie was trying to get a team into Hamilton, Forbes indicated it would be (overnight) one of the top 3 (or was it 5? - can't remember now) most valuable franchises. QC wouldn't be any worse off than Ottawa today. Their issue last time around was a crappy dollar and the requirement for a new rink.

Hamilton Tigers 10-29-2012 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riptide (Post 55383167)
When Basillie was trying to get a team into Hamilton, Forbes indicated it would be (overnight) one of the top 3 (or was it 5? - can't remember now) most valuable franchises.

Not Forbes. It was the NHL's own experts that testified a team in Hamilton (southern Ontario) would be in top 5 revenue.


http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/693658
Quote:

Hamilton would be among top five in revenue, NHL admits


Paul Kelly was saying this when he was heading the NHLPA and sought to get the NHLPA more involved with the business decisions.

Quote:

“You know, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec City, perhaps Halifax if they had an arena that could sustain an NHL team. But I think there are locations in Canada that would strongly support the NHL game.”

Sitting in downtown Toronto, I can feel the tremors from the ACC all the way to NHL head office…

Kelly is smart, there is no question about that. I can promise you that the Hamilton comment didn’t just slip out of him mouth. This was an intentional inclusion; you can bet on it.
http://torontosportsmedia.com/toront...-to-canada/208

mikelvl 10-29-2012 09:37 PM

For all the deserved abuse the owners are taking, the NHLPA probably guaranteed this lockout when they canned this guy. Brutal, brutal mistake. Idiots really.

KevFu 10-29-2012 09:41 PM

I mean zero disrespect to Hamilton, because I don't doubt how successful a franchise there would be...

... but if the NHL could accurately project revenues, we wouldn't be in this mess. They failed to project the 30 teams revenues out over the length of the CBA and see where the 57% HRR split CBA would end up in 2012.

Chiuozu* 10-29-2012 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelvl (Post 55385365)
For all the deserved abuse the owners are taking, the NHLPA probably guaranteed this lockout when they canned this guy. Brutal, brutal mistake. Idiots really.

The players wanted to go to War, not a negotiating table.

Felonious Python 10-29-2012 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelvl (Post 55385365)
For all the deserved abuse the owners are taking, the NHLPA probably guaranteed this lockout when they canned this guy. Brutal, brutal mistake. Idiots really.

If you look at it from a certain perspective, who is more willing to break during negotiations: the guy who is characterized as having a passion for the game, or the one without?

Despite this, I've always felt firing Paul Kelly was a mistake. At least give him an opportunity to help cancel a season if you're going to hire him.

Killion 10-29-2012 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevFu (Post 55385485)
I mean zero disrespect to Hamilton, because I don't doubt how successful a franchise there would be... but if the NHL could accurately project revenues, we wouldn't be in this mess.

... their successful despite themselves Kev. Dead simple no-brainers they dont "get". Hamilton is a classic example, Winnipeg another, for several years the NHL claiming the MTS was too small and so on & so forth. Billions of dollars spent elsewhere in Southern Ontario since Copps opened in 1985, missed opportunities; lost & gone forever to the league. Gross incompetence.

WingedWheel1987 10-29-2012 09:58 PM

Why expand when you have a perfectly awful market "Phoenix" just waiting to be relocated or contracted?

NORiculous 10-29-2012 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 55376713)

The players have ZERO business sence and this article is another proof of that. Kelly has a unique vision and this is why Bettman "likes" him: they could speak and understand what the heck they were saying.

Good post.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.