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Vipers31 10-29-2012 06:06 PM

2012-2013 Anaheim Ducks Prospect Update
 
Old one hit 1,000. Continue happily here.


[2011-2012 Part II including offseason and everything up to today]

Sojourn 10-29-2012 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carelton CA (Post 55379225)
Watching these names roll across the top of this screen as the TOP PROSPECTS, voted sometime this summer I believe.

#1 Palmieri
#2 Etem
#3 Vatanen
#4 Rakell
#5 Holland
#6 Smith-Pelley
#7 Lindholm
#8 Karlsson
#9 Gibson
#10 Kerdiles
#11 Friberg

Now that we're at the end of October and have a snapshot of all the prospects what would you change today? Also need to remember that the AHL is now considered the best league in the world according to almost all the experts. That being said, here is my new ranking.

#1 Vatanen
#2 Palmieri
#3 Lindholm
#4 Holland
#5 Smith-Pelley
#6 Gibson
#7 Wagner
#8 Friberg
#9 Rakell
#10 Bobkov
#11 Karlsson

I think this is a little too much "What have you done for me lately?" and a bit too short-term for my taste. This seems more about who is playing well right now, and more significantly, who is doing well in the AHL. Etem is having some growing pains in the AHL, but to drop completely out of the top 11 because he hasn't adjusted to the pro level in 5 games seems really extreme. Then you've got Vatanen at #1, though he's what? 3 years older than Lindholm? But Lindholm is basically already going toe to toe with him many nights. Bobkov moves into the 10th spot, because of a few games? And I'd have to ask what Rakell has done to drop so sharply.

I don't know that I would make any real changes at this point. I might bump up Gibson and Lindholm, since age favors them, and all they've done is impress, but for the most part there isn't anything that has changed.

Paul4587 10-29-2012 06:48 PM

Yeah, that list has way too much "what have you done for me the past 6 games" to it.

Also, no experts have claimed the AHL is best league in the world, it's far from it right now. It's considered the best league in North America, it's behind at least the KHL, the Swiss league, the SEL and the FEL.

Exit Dose 10-29-2012 06:57 PM

I'd give Vatanen, Lindholm, and Wagner slight bumps, since those were also the guys with the biggest question marks when we made that list.

AngelDuck 10-29-2012 07:05 PM

The more I think of it, the more I'm amazed out how good Lindholm has been at his age. The AHL is a very tough league for 18 year olds, especially from the defensive side (trying to guard bigger forwards). Obviously it's not close to as good as the NHL, but still, Lindholm has been great. Now that I think about it, I have no idea why I'm writing this lol.

Madden and the scouts really did their homework on this one, and we actually might have gotten the best defenseman in the draft.

snarktacular 10-29-2012 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDuck (Post 55382889)
Madden and the scouts really did their homework on this one, and we actually might have gotten the best defenseman in the draft.

Psh. Burke says Rielly is the best player in the draft. In. The. Draft.

Exit Dose 10-29-2012 07:25 PM

I have it on good authority that Lindholm is a Gunnarson clone.

Carelton CA 10-29-2012 07:32 PM

The Swedish Elite league is not better, not even close. Sami was the Dman of the year the last 2 years over there. The KHL is not as good either. They may have the NHL's best players now but the league as a whole is not as good as the AHL right now. Read around a bit, you'll find many who agree that the AHL is now the best league in the world right now.

And yes, it is 'what have you done for me lately', that's the point.

Paul4587 10-29-2012 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carelton CA (Post 55383557)
The Swedish Elite league is not better, not even close. Sami was the Dman of the year the last 2 years over there. The KHL is not as good either. They may have the NHL's best players now but the league as a whole is not as good as the AHL right now. Read around a bit, you'll find many who agree that the AHL is now the best league in the world right now.

Sami played in the FEL, not the SEL and him being defenseman of the year is irrelevant as he's one of the best defensemen in the AHL too. The KHL is significantly better and this is coming from somebody who despises the KHL, the only thing the AHL has over the KHL is a goaltending advantage.

In a normal year, most regard the AHL to be behind the NHL, KHL, SEL, FEL and on a similar level to the Swiss league. In a lockout, the AHL has gained a ton of prospects and good players who are mostly under 21 where as the European leagues have gained proven top end NHL talent which is spread out over far less teams than the AHL.

Vinegar Strokes 10-29-2012 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carelton CA (Post 55383557)
The Swedish Elite league is not better, not even close. Sami was the Dman of the year the last 2 years over there. The KHL is not as good either. They may have the NHL's best players now but the league as a whole is not as good as the AHL right now. Read around a bit, you'll find many who agree that the AHL is now the best league in the world right now.

And yes, it is 'what have you done for me lately', that's the point.

I'm sorry, but the AHL isn't on the same level as the SEL, KHL or FEL, let alone better. Those leagues are a tier above the AHL.

DuckJet 10-29-2012 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 55383349)
I have it on good authority that Lindholm is a Gunnarson clone.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I'm so sick of seeing that. But on that subject who is a fair comparison for Lindholm. Lot's of people are saying OEL, but I'm not sure that's so much accurate as it is just a reminder of being a similar situation. To me I get more of an Adam Larsson vibe out of Lindholm. That's not me trying to relate him to someone of similar nationality, but I really feel the two play a very similar game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDuck (Post 55382889)
The more I think of it, the more I'm amazed out how good Lindholm has been at his age. The AHL is a very tough league for 18 year olds, especially from the defensive side (trying to guard bigger forwards). Obviously it's not close to as good as the NHL, but still, Lindholm has been great. Now that I think about it, I have no idea why I'm writing this lol.

Madden and the scouts really did their homework on this one, and we actually might have gotten the best defenseman in the draft.

I've been incredibly impressed with him. Having two stellar tandems in our system (Fowler/Sbisa, Lindholm/Vatanen) is a great thing to look forward to in the future. Now if we could just focus our drafting tendencies to high end offense, that would just be swell. The Getzlaf/Perry/Selanne/Koivu situation has me nervous and I'm not certain Holland, Palmieri, Etem, +Others have enough in them to construct a dominant top 6.

Sojourn 10-29-2012 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carelton CA (Post 55383557)
And yes, it is 'what have you done for me lately', that's the point.

But some of these players have only played half a dozen games, and you've got some dramatic changes on the list based on just those games. What happens if one of them hits a cold spell? They drop off the list entirely like Etem did? He's no better or worse as a prospect now than he was before he played his first game of the season.

KelVarnsen 10-29-2012 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carelton CA (Post 55383557)
The Swedish Elite league is not better, not even close. Sami was the Dman of the year the last 2 years over there. The KHL is not as good either. They may have the NHL's best players now but the league as a whole is not as good as the AHL right now. Read around a bit, you'll find many who agree that the AHL is now the best league in the world right now.

And yes, it is 'what have you done for me lately', that's the point.

Ok. Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying in your original post. If I am understanding you now, you are stating your list based completely on how the prospects are playing at this moment. Is that correct? I would probably agree with most on your list.

However if you are saying this is your overall top prospect list in the Ducks Org, then I would disagree with omitting Etem.

Sojourn 10-29-2012 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckJet (Post 55384901)
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I'm so sick of seeing that. But on that subject who is a fair comparison for Lindholm. Lot's of people are saying OEL, but I'm not sure that's so much accurate as it is just a reminder of being a similar situation. To me I get more of an Adam Larsson vibe out of Lindholm. That's not me trying to relate him to someone of similar nationality, but I really feel the two play a very similar game.

You realize OEL is Swedish too, right? He's also very much a two-way defenseman at this point. More so than Larsson is, at this point.

At any rate, I see more of OEL in Lindholm. They have similar games, with a lot of untapped potential, tremendous poise, smarts, and underrated offensive skills. The big difference is upside, as OEL just continued to get better and better and now he's one of the best young defensemen in the league. Lindholm will need a similar developmental curve if he's going to have that type of ceiling.

AngelDuck 10-29-2012 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckJet (Post 55384901)
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I'm so sick of seeing that. But on that subject who is a fair comparison for Lindholm. Lot's of people are saying OEL, but I'm not sure that's so much accurate as it is just a reminder of being a similar situation. To me I get more of an Adam Larsson vibe out of Lindholm. That's not me trying to relate him to someone of similar nationality, but I really feel the two play a very similar game.



I've been incredibly impressed with him. Having two stellar tandems in our system (Fowler/Sbisa, Lindholm/Vatanen) is a great thing to look forward to in the future. Now if we could just focus our drafting tendencies to high end offense, that would just be swell. The Getzlaf/Perry/Selanne/Koivu situation has me nervous and I'm not certain Holland, Palmieri, Etem, +Others have enough in them to construct a dominant top 6.

Agreed! The good news is that this up coming draft is loaded with centers and forward prospects. This is a good chance for Madden to snag a high impact forward.

AngelDuck 10-29-2012 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourn (Post 55385115)
But some of these players have only played half a dozen games, and you've got some dramatic changes on the list based on just those games. What happens if one of them hits a cold spell? They drop off the list entirely like Etem did? He's no better or worse as a prospect now than he was before he played his first game of the season.

Don't know if I agree with that. Until he shows me he can adjust to the pro game I think he's slipped a tad as a prospect. Nothing huge, but a little at least.

Sojourn 10-29-2012 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDuck (Post 55385341)
Don't know if I agree with that. Until he shows me he can adjust to the pro game I think he's slipped a tad as a prospect. Nothing huge, but a little at least.

That just suggests to me you didn't see much of him prior to the AHL. The majority of objective observers who saw him recognized there was going to be an adjustment period. We pretty much all said that he was dominating the CHL primarily because he was bigger, stronger, and faster, and that this game wouldn't transition to the professional leagues. This isn't a surprise. It doesn't make him less of a prospect. It just means he's following the expected development path.

Edit: Expecting a complete turnaround in his game after only six games is pretty unfair to him. If he's at the same place a few months from now, that's something different, but to say he's less of a prospect now because of six games?

Exit Dose 10-29-2012 08:48 PM

OEL and Pietrangelo are the best comparisons that I've seen for Lindholm.

Sojourn 10-29-2012 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 55385709)
OEL and Pietrangelo are the best comparisons that I've seen for Lindholm.

Ditto. I realize it puts, what are probably, unreal expectations on Lindholm... but in terms of the type of game they play those are the two that stand out to me. To be fair, playing a similar type of game doesn't mean he'll be as good. It just means he plays a similar game.

...not that I think any of us would complain if he did turn out anything like that.

AngelDuck 10-29-2012 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 55385709)
OEL and Pietrangelo are the best comparisons that I've seen for Lindholm.

If he's anything close to Pietrangelo it'd be all kinds of awesome

Sean Garrity 10-29-2012 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 55385709)
OEL and Pietrangelo are the best comparisons that I've seen for Lindholm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojourn (Post 55385899)
Ditto. I realize it puts, what are probably, unreal expectations on Lindholm... but in terms of the type of game they play those are the two that stand out to me. To be fair, playing a similar type of game doesn't mean he'll be as good. It just means he plays a similar game.

...not that I think any of us would complain if he did turn out anything like that.

IMO, Lindholm isn't nearly as offensively gifted as the other two, but those aren't awful comparisons.

DuckJet 10-29-2012 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Garrity (Post 55388849)
IMO, Lindholm isn't nearly as offensively gifted as the other two, but those aren't awful comparisons.

That's what led me to the Larsson comparison. he'll never blow anyone away with his offense, but he'll be a guy you want on the ice defending a one goal lead with a minute to go.

Hockey Duckie 10-29-2012 11:46 PM

I'm just glad we're all in agreement in having high hopes for Lindholm as opposed to the disjointed affair of "Who did we pick? And why if (input player(s) name(s) here) was/were available?!" ha ha ha

And it's not just us stating this, but the Ads coaches wanting to give Lindholm more responsibility after two AHL games. Big thumbs up. I don't care who Lindholm is being compared to because I think he's going to have his own niche. With that kiind of physical endurance combined with his talent skyrocketing, people will want to be compared to Lindholm. At least, that's my hope for him. Gotta give him a lot of credit if he's the reason why his Rogle team got promoted to the Elite status.

AngelDuck 10-29-2012 11:51 PM

Question: If this is a full season lockout, does that burn a year on Souray and Allen's contracts?

Thanks in advance.

mighty all the way 10-29-2012 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDuck (Post 55390335)
Question: If this is a full season lockout, does that burn a year on Souray and Allen's contracts?

Thanks in advance.

Yeah, just like how if its a full season lockout Perry and Getz will be UFA after the lockout, which is not good if one or both walks and we can't trade them.


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