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-   -   Did STAN GOOF? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1278285)

hawksfan50 11-01-2012 05:29 PM

Did STAN GOOF?
 
I notice that --after a slow start LUDVIG RENSFELDST now leads his team,MALMO, in scoring in the ALLSVENSKAN league--4g 9a in 17GP ---tied with 6 others for 17th overall in in the scoring points race ...NOW considering that :

1) Malmo is only a 10th place team in the standings(ie.not that good)
2) That Rensfeldt did not strt out the season as a featured "go to" guy on the top line but was mostly a 3rd or 2nd liner only ..
3) that he is just 20 years old (He'll be 21 in January)...

Methinks bot STAN who did not sign him (an admission of some big mistake wasting an early 2nd rounmd pick on him) AND the other GM's who all passed on him in the re-entry draft thi past summer---HAVE pre-maturely made a mistake..

HE will NEVER be a super star of course-BUT BIG 6'3 guys who can skate and score with some decent contribution ae STILL potentially useful -and who knows? Malmo may be forced to feature him more now on special teams,more minutes etc...maybe he still develops and blossoms into something better? We are always told --it take BIG GUYS longer to co-ordinate in teir bodies..one never knows how this will play out. BUT it sure looks like too many alleged hockey experts QUIT on this kid without giving him the proper development time ...Not saying he would be special-BUT he might be a better pro than MANY of the hyped assets in our pipeline --KYLE BEACH where are you--not exactly even among the top 20-30 scorers in the AHL? IF not --WHY NOT? Somebody has got to answer for Stan's "vaunted' pipeline crew's mediocrity-while we instead cringe as EDM contemplates getting THE SCHULTZ who is tearing up the AHL ..

Again-I cannot understand why Stan bailed so early on RENSFELDT or why other GM's also failed to scoop him up--as if ALL had already written him off .He wasn;t that bad in the oHL --certainly no proof he would be guaranted worse as a pro than the vast majority of hyped jrs who eventually fail ...the curious thing is WHY the drop of him SO EARLY when others are given so much more time to "develop" OR their gM promoters are CONNING the fans with potential that just never advances to NHL quality ? THS is what i do not get ..
IT was never that clear to me that RENSFELDT would fail to develop sufficiently while insisting others were more certain of doing that .AT worst he was an even bet agaist such othhers as to who would EVENTUALLY fail and who would EVENTUALLY succeed in the NHL .YET "THEY" --the so called hockey ecperts did not want to even give him THE SAME CHANCE to develop ---the issue is THE CHANCE..

Now in some cases one can tell a drafted player deserves no FURTHER CHANCE --but USULALLY one can spot deficiency BEFORE the kd is even drafted (eg. the famous Angelo Esposito case--why even BOTHER trying to develop THAT -you know from the get go -IT AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN!

BUT in the RESNSFELDT case-I did not see the same clear cut decision ...

FUTHER STAN keeps making the same mitakes --overly small but skilled kids who never seem to get strong enough; or Big guys who can't skate or can't score..YET it seems to me a Big guy who can skate and can score enough not to be the go to "star" but just to CONTRIBUTE decently -is a package worth TRYING yo develop.
Hence my mystification on Bowmam's =what seemed to me-way too early determination on Rensfeldt.

SO if LUDVIG does "develop" such that as a more mature 23-24 year old EVENTUALLY getting a free agent contract down the line from some NHL team--STAN could get embarred by his big TOO HASTY MISTAKE..

WE shall see -but FOR SURE -IF he does get his NHL shot down the line a bit-he's NOT going to sign with THE TEAM THAT QUIT ON HIM!

SLAM..BAM.. THANK YOU STAN ....now about the "stockpile" you are so fond of at Rockford --- it would be interstig to see which NHl teams would want any of THEM?

I'm noy angrry at STAN--but I'm MYSTIFIED why he bailed SO EARLY on a high 2nd rounder many thought was a late first for his draft ...KEVIN HAYES had better make a big impact in the NHL--else STANBO will have blown the top of the 2010 draft to hell... I do not think RENSFELDTY had any worse of a chance than KEVIN HAYES to develop into a usefuol NHL player--neither willbe a "star" -but it remains to be seen who would develop into a useful decent contributor to an NHL team. One could "make it" both could or both could fail -I don't see who Stan knew for cetain how it will turn out-therefore I just don't get why he did not give Rensfeldt an EQUAL CHANCE to eventually "get there" . It is baffling--but good on Ludvig that he himself has not quit on himself. For this reason I hope he shows Stan up -to be the FAKER of a hockey expert that he CLEARLY is ...

We'll see Stan..We'll see..but just to remind sTAN --I had us taking BROCK NELSON at #24 and RENSFELDT at #30 -and I still stick by that evaluation--but STAN bets on K. Hayes ---passes on Nelson by trading #30 and getting #35 to take Rensfeldt and getting #58--goalie Kent Simpson in return.. NOW -2 years later he dumps Rensfeldt --meaning we went from 30 to 58 --for NO GOOD REASON and also failed to cover the bet at CENTRE if HAYES fails ..

BTW --BROCK NELSON is now in te AHL at bridgeport and has 2 g+2a in 6GP so far..
HAYES better tear up the AHL when he gets his chance ELSE sTAN keeps looking more and more INEPT ...


THEN we are told how grat LEDDY is --and we see no "greatmess' in his AHL: impact so far-surely mothing like JUSTIN SCHULTZ dominating nd clearly tearing up that league from the back -end..


STAN --you are on notice-- your great INCOMPETENCE is starting to show in all these MISTAKES of commission and omission -you had better hope your vaunted pipeline stars do what you indicated they SHOULD DO --if they do not achieve that -it reounds back to haunt YOUR REPUTATION...the heat is on STAN--you had better produce some hits -they can't all be misses--but if the guy you pegged as a MISS then HITS with some other team -not only willthe egg be on your face but you won't be long for the job.. Daddy and Daddy's reputtion will not guarantee you can keep the job ..

So I'm keping tabs on RENSFELDT and NELSON ---K. Hayes and K. Simpson had better have more impactful careers in the NHL --or if all fail you get off the hook--but if N+R turn out better than H+S --then STAN--bye-bye--because then we can no longerafford MISTAKES like YOU! SO pray you win Stan .cause if I win--you LOSE...and if you lose big--SAYONARA !

No Fun Shogun 11-01-2012 05:32 PM

Seriously.... these posts of yours are just about identical to what I'd expect from my grandma if she still had a computer....

Judrix 11-01-2012 05:53 PM

I think we'll get by without the Ludvig.

Hawkscap 11-01-2012 07:21 PM

Did he take his Kevin Hayes post and just change the name and teams?

Who is next David Pacan?

brtriad 11-01-2012 07:42 PM

Rensfeldt is a bum. A few good games changes nothing.

Gootie 11-01-2012 07:50 PM

Classic fiddy

Like others have said, we'll be fine.

The Zetterberg Era 11-01-2012 08:04 PM

Sorry I know I am a fan of another team that you guys don't like but what the heck is going on in this post?

I don't understand threatening him or keeping score like Stan Bowman cares. I think he could have got more for some of the guys when he was forced to blow up the team. However, it is hard to hate on Chicago's prospect pool and drafting decisions. Now some of that might not have been Bowman's doing, but I would think Ludvig Rensfeldt is not his worst decision. It is always easy to look at a draft a couple years down the road.

By the way scoring in the Allsvenskan as 20 year old isn't really that noteworthy, he had near the same pace as 18 year old and it is the second level.

BobbyJet 11-01-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 55449407)
Now some of that might not have been Bowman's doing, but I would think Ludvig Rensfeldt is not his worst decision.

Now there's an understatement.

Chris Hansen 11-01-2012 08:20 PM

Bowman has had a pathetic tenure as GM, but I don't consider this a mistake of his at all.

ChiGuySez 11-01-2012 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judrix (Post 55446529)
I think we'll get by without the Ludvig.

We're getting by without Faulk and Merrill and Etem and Coyle as well. Good show Kelly.

BBSeabs27 11-01-2012 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun (Post 55446087)
Seriously.... these posts of yours are just about identical to what I'd expect from my grandma if she still had a computer....

I actually laughed really hard at this post.

Yeah, 13 points in 17 games in a league that has never even been spoken of? If he wasn't doing good there then he really doesn't belong in any sort of pro hockey.

mikitas donut 11-01-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 55449407)
Sorry I know I am a fan of another team that you guys don't like but what the heck is going on in this post?

I don't understand threatening him or keeping score like Stan Bowman cares. I think he could have got more for some of the guys when he was forced to blow up the team. However, it is hard to hate on Chicago's prospect pool and drafting decisions. Now some of that might not have been Bowman's doing, but I would think Ludvig Rensfeldt is not his worst decision. It is always easy to look at a draft a couple years down the road.

By the way scoring in the Allsvenskan as 20 year old isn't really that noteworthy, he had near the same pace as 18 year old and it is the second level.

His posts are legendary. Like, the bad kind of legend. Like the chupacabra.

Bubba88 11-02-2012 07:45 AM

still a good decision to cut him

DisgruntledHawkFan 11-02-2012 08:49 AM

A soft mediocre perimeter player wouldn't see ice time in Rockford much less Chicago.

digdug41982 11-02-2012 09:42 AM

Terrible draft choice, lack of vision to trade him and get at least SOMETHING back, but yeah, this guy is not good enough for us given the depth at wing, cutting him was the right move.

hockeydoug 11-02-2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan (Post 55459315)
A soft mediocre perimeter player wouldn't see ice time in Rockford much less Chicago.

From my limited understanding of him, I would agree with this.

I also remember that he really struggled making the jump to the SEL, and not just the scoring sheet. I would think that's a big "red flag" for the players too.

It's possible Stan did draft him because he thought the frame might be worth the gamble of a higher pick. With so many systems out there needing more offense and size, I think the fact that he remains unsigned means it was the right move to let him go.

BigBootsie 11-02-2012 11:05 AM

We done crying about Turris?

ChiGuySez 11-02-2012 02:02 PM

Stan and the Hawks draft brain trust go on the recommendation of Mats Halin for Euro prospects. Doubt Stan or anyone else actually sees the Euro prospects outside of the international tournaments and even thats suspect.

In all fairness, the Hawks prospect depth at forward as of the 2010 draft was weak. The 2009 drafted players including Pirri and Kruger were just drafted and an unknown quantity... they really liked Gilbert though :laugh:. Beach was coming off his food fight with Aliu. Thanks to Tallons drafting, the prospect pool was trending way down b/c of failed draft picks. Mark Kelly was brought in by Dale and I believe the main consultant for draft evaluation and is still is one of the main voices on draft day. Well he finally found a few players outside of the first round. Get enough picks for 6-7 years and you're bound to find something... unless you're part of the Hawks draft brain trust in the 90's. :shakehead:

As far as Rensfeldt goes, the Hawks had little as far as prospect forwards. So OK, they go on Halins recommendation and throw him a bone. Factoid is between the first and second rounds, they pass on Etem and Coyle in the first and Faulk and Merrill in the second. Oh wait... Olsen was just picked the year before and will be the #1 d-prospect of the future. Go Mark.

I can play hindsight b/c Im just a poster and not getting paid for draft evaluations unlike those who make the actual picks.

Sleight Of Hand 11-02-2012 02:51 PM

Please make your posts shorter. I cannot follow your writing style either.

hawksfan50 11-05-2012 12:31 PM

well -Rensfeldt now has 17pts in 19GP and is now tied for 8th in the ALLSVENSKAN points race...among those he is tied with in points is ANZE KOPITAR (though he has played 3more games than Kopitar) ...

My point is that sure you can knock the Allsvenkan League --but still considering Rensfeldt started the season slowly and on lower lines-since they have moved him to CENTRE their top line and now is featured on the PP --he has accelerated his scoring and they are winning more games ---all young players ask is to be given a chance and put in roles that best suit their abilities--obviously playing on a better line has helped Rensfeldt but so too has he been a catalyst for the top line now in Malmo...
As success grows so to usually does a player's own confidence...Whatever the results for him now look a lot better...This unsderscores my point that STAN GOOFED
because even if on the Hawks there is NO ROOM to use a big guy like Rensfeldt at Centre on the top line and PP --and EVEN IF he could not challenge in future for the 2C role OR they do not see him as a future NHL winger--the FACT is --IF he is successful in the ALLSVENSKAN --at CENTRE--you can bet some NHL teams will come a calling--and so for STAN to let him go FOR NADA --not keeping a potentially useful TRADE ASSET even if he doesn't fit our system in the role he may be best at, to me IS A TERRIBLE GM GOOF...

So I repeat -STAN's sins on this are:

1. Gave up on the kid too early..did not give him even a chance...
2. May not have envisaged correct role and position for Rensfeldt.
3. Certainly goofed on giving up what now looks like an asset for trade even if our vaunted brain trust cannot see where he would fit among the plethora of vaunted pipeline assets they do see challenging for NHL jobs with us in the correct roles ..

THE KEVIN HAYES (when he signs) + KENT SIMPSON assets
will ALSO have to excell the alternative of BROCK NELSON (NYI prospect now in the AHL) + RENSFELDT (who may still get to the NHL for some team -but of course not us because i) STAN willnever admit he goofed letting Resnsfeldt go free and ii) Rensfeldt will hate the Hawks forever for refusing to sign him and thus implying they had made some huge drafting mistake. My own picks to click for the 24th pick and30th pick of the 2010 draft (Nelson and Rensfeldt ) I still think willvindicate my evaluation of what we coulda shoulda done --we got Rensfeldt anyway at #35--but STANBO then casts him adrift 2 years later and we get NADA and a wasted pick for that 35th selection--GM's should NOT BE THIS STUPID --so STANBO had better hope HAYES and SIMPSON come through big for him ,else his hockey reputation goes into the stinkpile.

Hawkaholic 11-05-2012 12:57 PM

Who cares? rensfeldt will never make it anyway.

brtriad 11-05-2012 12:58 PM

To be fair, his reputation is so low already that it has nowhere to go but up.

giovi 11-05-2012 06:54 PM

this is usually about the time i remind 50 that he wanted dan fritsche and steve bernier ahead of seabrook.

strangely, he never replies, in spite of the literally dozens of post he made after that draft proclaiming a terrible error had been made.

BBH 11-06-2012 07:04 PM

I couldn't even skim the article it was so insanely difficult to follow.

That being said, if Kruger has a few half-decent games, does this mean he is the next coming of Stan Mikita? No. Stan goofed when he drafted him, not when he released the guy.

hawksfan50 11-13-2012 10:56 AM

Rensfeldt now tied for 6th in points and is 2nd in assists in the Alsvenskan league(4 g 15a in 20GP) --I never said he was a great player BUT his accomplishment so far is probably surprisng given he is still won't turn 21 till JAN 29th --he has been putting up points after a slow start to the season because they put him centering the first line AND are giving him PP time --so more of a go to role now than just a 3rd line checker role --it is to his credit that he has thrived with the greater emphasis on being an offensive catalyst ..The entire Malmo team seems to have all increased scoring because of their re-structued lines and roles -whatever the moves have worked and Rensfeldt has accelerated his offense compared to his slow start of the season..

Maybe there never wouldbe a fit for in with the Blackhawks--but STILL --I have made the case STAN should have signed him as at leat a valueable trade asset--maybe nobody in the NHL saw it that way last summer (Bypassed as a re-entry ) --yet NOW (if he continies his strong season) I'm sure there willbe takers for him when he is a free agent next after his current contract expires-IN that case, we got NADA for what could have been at least a trade asset -BUT if he continues to progress -who knows what he could end up being as a mature 23-24 year old in a couple more years? I just think Stan gave up on him far too quickly whether he ever played for us or not..You do not waste potential valueable assets for NADA. That is my criticsm of Stan on this...


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