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-   -   Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1278697)

mouser 11-02-2012 03:40 PM

Make Whole, Not War (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XIX
 
Carry on, previous thread here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1277529

OGBobbyFarnham 11-02-2012 05:15 PM

Carried over from the last thread:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Dreger just broke on TSN sportscenter the owners are coming forth with a potential make whole provision having the owners foot the bill. 150 million the first year. 50mil the 2nd year.

He said talks could resume start of next week if it gains traction.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.

rdawg1234 11-02-2012 05:15 PM

Without doing the math I think that's around half of paying the entire contracts out.

so it's similar to 54%, then 51% isnt it in the first two years? or something along those lines?

Marc the Habs Fan 11-02-2012 05:15 PM

Encouraging news tonight, as long as the NHL keeps it at 50/50...

Tyler Biggs* 11-02-2012 05:15 PM

I'm starting to hope for a complete season cancellation so both sides lose a ton of money...

Dellstrom 11-02-2012 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan (Post 55470625)
Encouraging news tonight, as long as the NHL keeps it at 50/50...

I'm still not getting optimistic about anything. It's worked for 2 weeks now.

If anything, I'm more pessimistic at this. Only more of a surprise if it works out. :) I'll just be missing hockey that much more with no Pats this week... :(

sixgunsdad 11-02-2012 05:18 PM

Not sure it's enough of a concession to move forward but at least it's something

CN_paladin 11-02-2012 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 (Post 55470615)
Carried over from the last thread:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Dreger just broke on TSN sportscenter the owners are coming forth with a potential make whole provision having the owners foot the bill. 150 million the first year. 50mil the 2nd year.

He said talks could resume start of next week if it gains traction.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.

Then why did the NHL cancel the WS if they were to concede much more than the 0.25M penalty that UofM could impose?

Guardian17 11-02-2012 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 (Post 55470615)
Carried over from the last thread:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Dreger just broke on TSN sportscenter the owners are coming forth with a potential make whole provision having the owners foot the bill. 150 million the first year. 50mil the 2nd year.

He said talks could resume start of next week if it gains traction.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.

The NHL makes another concession and the NHLPA just stalls.

tarheelhockey 11-02-2012 05:20 PM

It's not a coincidence that the NHL is making a significantly better offer at the same time they cancel the Winter Classic.

The PA had better get serious about negotiating, immediately. The NHL is basically in a position to go into a shell until January if this offer doesn't kickstart talks. A better opportunity to get paychecks for 2012-13 paychecks won't be forthcoming.

I hope Fehr isn't obstinate enough to try and push the owners any further. They've already made a considerable show of ill-intentions just to get to this point.

Krishna 11-02-2012 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian17 (Post 55470733)
The NHL makes another concession and the NHLPA just stalls.

All of the Pro PA people think the NHL hasn't made a single concession yet :shakehead

Hopefully this gets them back to the table earlier than next week. Meet for awhile tomorrow.

save the damn season

rdawg1234 11-02-2012 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian17 (Post 55470733)
The NHL makes another concession and the NHLPA just stalls.

I expect some kind of spin. Fehr "This is a great start", 2 days later PA replies with another delinked proposal and no changes to contracts.

Marc the Habs Fan 11-02-2012 05:21 PM

My best guess:

50/50 of 3.3 B in revenues = 1.65 B for each

The current contracts signed are, apparently for around 1.8 B this year. Maybe someone can confirm, but that number is the one that sticks out in my mind. Figure it will probably be around 1.9 B by the time the remaining RFAs sign and teams fill out their rosters.

1.9 B - 1.65 B = 250 M.

150 M means there's a 100 M gap.

But this is all dependent on HRR of 3.3 B (last year's)...which seems to be very unlikely considering the games cancelled already. So not sure if my calculation is all for nothing.

Mike Jones 11-02-2012 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 (Post 55470615)
Carried over from the last thread:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Dreger just broke on TSN sportscenter the owners are coming forth with a potential make whole provision having the owners foot the bill. 150 million the first year. 50mil the 2nd year.

He said talks could resume start of next week if it gains traction.

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession.

Yeah - but is Bettman gonna like this enough to support it? I know it's coming from the league side but that doesn't always mean the Count is on board does it?

Marc the Habs Fan 11-02-2012 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 55470763)
All of the Pro PA people think the NHL hasn't made a single concession yet :shakehead

I'm pro-NHL at this stage, but they haven't made a single concession if you compare with the CBA that just expired...at some point, they will have to in order to get an agreement done. Just like in 2005 when they gave players much lower UFA age.

If you compare their recent offers to their insulting offer of July, then yeah, there have been tons of concessions.

rdawg1234 11-02-2012 05:26 PM

There's been damage done. We're looking at around a 60 game season right now. Definitely not gonna hit the 3.3b especially with the WC gone.

mouser 11-02-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan (Post 55470777)
My best guess:

50/50 of 3.3 B in revenues = 1.65 B for each

The current contracts signed are, apparently for around 1.8 B this year. Maybe someone can confirm, but that number is the one that sticks out in my mind. Figure it will probably be around 1.9 B by the time the remaining RFAs sign and teams fill out their rosters.

1.9 B - 1.65 B = 250 M.

150 M means there's a 100 M gap.

But this is all dependent on HRR of 3.3 B (last year's)...which seems to be very unlikely considering the games cancelled already. So not sure if my calculation is all for nothing.

Don't forget the $90m in non-salary benefits.

OGBobbyFarnham 11-02-2012 05:28 PM

Dreger tweeted he's back on shortly to describe it more(perhaps?)

rdawg1234 11-02-2012 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan (Post 55470879)
I'm pro-NHL at this stage, but they haven't made a single concession if you compare with the CBA that just expired...at some point, they will have to in order to get an agreement done. Just like in 2005 when they gave players much lower UFA age.

If you compare their recent offers to their insulting offer of July, then yeah, there have been tons of concessions.

But what concessions can they make. the UFA thing was one, but how much further can it drop(it's already 25 if played for 7 years or 27 otherwise)

What do the players want that doesnt include the full 57%? plus contract limits/variations NEED to change for the good of the league. So there's not much breathing room there.

surixon 11-02-2012 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheelhockey (Post 55470755)
It's not a coincidence that the NHL is making a significantly better offer at the same time they cancel the Winter Classic.

The PA had better get serious about negotiating, immediately. The NHL is basically in a position to go into a shell until January if this offer doesn't kickstart talks. A better opportunity to get paychecks for 2012-13 paychecks won't be forthcoming.

I hope Fehr isn't obstinate enough to try and push the owners any further. They've already made a considerable show of ill-intentions just to get to this point.

Agreed, the PA cant use the Winter Classic as leverage.

So the NHL is now going to offer a soft landing of sorts, I'd like to say that I'm optimistic but this is Fehr that we are talking about.

Tinalera 11-02-2012 05:30 PM

It will be interesting to see if this move by the owners gets some traction, however if the PA still goes the "we aren't going to lose a nickel in payments" route, then yea I go with the idea that NHL goes into a shell till Jan.

Ilrider 11-02-2012 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 55470763)
All of the Pro PA people think the NHL hasn't made a single concession yet :shakehead

Hopefully this gets them back to the table earlier than next week. Meet for awhile tomorrow.

save the damn season

While I lean pro-PA, being a union member myself, I realized the NHL made some concessions with their last offer, but I also understood when the PA didn't take it as is. The PA's holdout is earning them more concessions, as I fully expected. Fehr is not the dummy everyone makes him out to be. He is a shrewd negotiator. That said, I will be mad if the PA doesn't help make a deal soon after this latest news. Let's get on that ice!

CanadianHockey 11-02-2012 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 55470763)
All of the Pro PA people think the NHL hasn't made a single concession yet :shakehead

Hopefully this gets them back to the table earlier than next week. Meet for awhile tomorrow.

save the damn season

The NHL hasn't made any concessions compared to the last CBA. The only thing the players are getting out of this proposal that is an improvement, for them, on the last CBA is a shorter ELC and more revenue sharing.


Anyway, this is close to where the NHL needs to be for the PA to accept. They're getting toward the middle ground where the existing salaries that go over 50% of HRR are split, with half counting against HRR and half being 'on the side'

Panthers607 11-02-2012 05:34 PM

**** this league and the jerks playing in it.

How can you operate something this poorly? It's absolutely beyond my mind.
Just when things started to look good for this sport in NA, next thing you know = a complete faceplant.

I love hockey, I really do, but I can't imagine how I'm gonna keep up my interest if we lose a season, AGAIN.

It's a goddamned disgrace, I hope they never recover from this. And they probably won't.

IDuck 11-02-2012 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheelhockey (Post 55470755)
It's not a coincidence that the NHL is making a significantly better offer at the same time they cancel the Winter Classic.

The PA had better get serious about negotiating, immediately. The NHL is basically in a position to go into a shell until January if this offer doesn't kickstart talks. A better opportunity to get paychecks for 2012-13 paychecks won't be forthcoming.

I hope Fehr isn't obstinate enough to try and push the owners any further. They've already made a considerable show of ill-intentions just to get to this point.

completely agree...wouldnt be surprised if PA take's usual stance, but at some point the NHL will say, thats it, season's wiped out, and now we are pissed.


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