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-   -   If the NHL Returns, How Will Rookies Fare? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1279569)

Darth Vitale 11-04-2012 04:21 PM

If the NHL Returns, How Will Rookies Fare?
 
It seems to me if there is an abbreviated season (let's say 40 or 50 games) that there may be less chance coaches and GMs will be willing to "try out" first year or almost-first-year players on anything other than a very limited basis. Mostly because each game counts for quite a bit more in the standings and so seems like a good excuse (especially for someone like Disco) to always go to the more reliable veteran types.

However we cut a couple of our loose, one of which you can say was effectively replaced by Glass. What do you guys think: will Shero and Disco go get another veteran F / D right away if the season starts and we only have 40 games left? Or will they take a chance on guys like Dumoulin and Tangradi for the first 10 or 15 games and keep them on only if they do well?

PensFan6687 11-04-2012 04:28 PM

I am still not sure that Eric Tangradi will be as good as labeled... or what people have seen from in the AHL this season. Still early into the year. I am just not overly impressed when he has been up. Not to say he has been given every opportunity to prove himself, it just feels like at this stage of the game, we should have seen a glimmer of that at the highest stage. I do feel that Brian Dumoulin has all the tangibles and maturity to step right in, and not only succeed like Simon Despres did down the stretch run of last season, but leap frog him. This is no slight to Despres, who comes off as a complete package. More-so it has to do with the fact I am very excited to have Dumoulin on this team. Everytime I read up on this kid I always read how he is a cut above the rest with his smarts. There just seems to be no minus to his game, with maybe the one exception where he doesn't shoot enough or work on his shot more.

SterlingBennett 11-04-2012 05:35 PM

IMO it will depend more on how the veterans fair to determine the place of rookies than the other way around. Not saying the rookies don't have to play their ***** off but if one or both of Orpik and/or Martin have a repeat of how their play was overall last season it will make the opportunity for one of the rookies to try and force coaching/management to play one of them over a vet.

Ugene Malkin 11-04-2012 08:40 PM

I think once the lockout ends, (if it ever does) there will be at least one trade. I don't think Shero likes going the waiver route unless he has too.

Now how that turns out, who knows.

I'd like to see another forward to battle with Jeffrey and Tangradi for the final forward spot and 13th forward.

I hope they waive, MacIntyer, who they know no one will fight. I would certainly feel better if there was Jeffrey, Tangradi and solid one year vet, rather than Jeffrey, Tangradi and MacIntyer. They have the cap space to sign someone for this one season, and with it being as short as it's probably going to be, there's not room for gambling.

PensFan6687 11-05-2012 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin (Post 55529721)
I think once the lockout ends, (if it ever does) there will be at least one trade. I don't think Shero likes going the waiver route unless he has too.

Now how that turns out, who knows.

I'd like to see another forward to battle with Jeffrey and Tangradi for the final forward spot and 13th forward.

I hope they waive, MacIntyer, who they know no one will fight. I would certainly feel better if there was Jeffrey, Tangradi and solid one year vet, rather than Jeffrey, Tangradi and MacIntyer. They have the cap space to sign someone for this one season, and with it being as short as it's probably going to be, there's not room for gambling.

Yes, they need to replace Staal and Sullivan's offence. Jeffrey and Tangradi do not give me that confidence. I also think Martin will play himself off of this team with Despres and Dumoulin nipping at his heels.

Mister Hockey 11-05-2012 04:27 AM

I think Joe Morrow could have played last year.

bigd 11-05-2012 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale (Post 55521249)
It seems to me if there is an abbreviated season (let's say 40 or 50 games) that there may be less chance coaches and GMs will be willing to "try out" first year or almost-first-year players on anything other than a very limited basis. Mostly because each game counts for quite a bit more in the standings and so seems like a good excuse (especially for someone like Disco) to always go to the more reliable veteran types.

However we cut a couple of our loose, one of which you can say was effectively replaced by Glass. What do you guys think: will Shero and Disco go get another veteran F / D right away if the season starts and we only have 40 games left? Or will they take a chance on guys like Dumoulin and Tangradi for the first 10 or 15 games and keep them on only if they do well?

Dumoulin has been good but no way he's up with the gig club unless there are injuries. I just don't think they are going to waive Strait or Bortuzzo without at least giving them a shot so Despres could be back in WBS. I think they will start the season with 8 D and play 7. I just don't think they will waive Lovejoy. I don't think anyone would pick him up and they aren't going to want to pay him 500K in WBS if they still hold his cap hit in Pitt. They could rotate the 3 centers for the start of the year. With a short season, nothing like having Crosby and Malkin on the ice more. Tangradi has made his point and will secure a spot on the team. No way he makes it through waivers.

bigd 11-05-2012 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Hockey (Post 55535813)
I think Joe Morrow could have played last year.

So far Morrow hasn't been spectacular in WBS. He'll need at least a season in the AHL, maybe more. Dumoulin is way ahead of him as far as being NHL ready.

Jacob 11-05-2012 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PensFan6687 (Post 55521501)
I am still not sure that Eric Tangradi will be as good as labeled... or what people have seen from in the AHL this season. Still early into the year. I am just not overly impressed when he has been up. Not to say he has been given every opportunity to prove himself, it just feels like at this stage of the game, we should have seen a glimmer of that at the highest stage. I do feel that Brian Dumoulin has all the tangibles and maturity to step right in, and not only succeed like Simon Despres did down the stretch run of last season, but leap frog him. This is no slight to Despres, who comes off as a complete package. More-so it has to do with the fact I am very excited to have Dumoulin on this team. Everytime I read up on this kid I always read how he is a cut above the rest with his smarts. There just seems to be no minus to his game, with maybe the one exception where he doesn't shoot enough or work on his shot more.

I doubt there will be room in the NHL even for Despres, let alone Dumoulin. The Pens still have 6 d-men on one-way deals, plus Strait and Bort who are waiver eligible. And Reese.

I don't think the season will be abbreviated to 50 games. The 94/95 lockout lasted until the end of January and they still had a 45 game season. At this point, *if* the lockout can be settled in the next 3-4 weeks, I see a 60+ game season.

sniugneP 11-05-2012 08:38 AM

I wonder if we still have trade deadline in abbreviated season. There won't be any sellers at deadline since pretty much every team is fighting for a playoff spot.

bigd 11-05-2012 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob (Post 55536917)
I doubt there will be room in the NHL even for Despres, let alone Dumoulin. The Pens still have 6 d-men on one-way deals, plus Strait and Bort who are waiver eligible. And Reese.

I don't think the season will be abbreviated to 50 games. The 94/95 lockout lasted until the end of January and they still had a 45 game season. At this point, *if* the lockout can be settled in the next 3-4 weeks, I see a 60+ game season.

With all the Dmen that we have in the system I don't think they would be worried about losing Reese to waivers. He's looked good in WBS but I don't think he's any better than Lovejoy.

Burgs 11-05-2012 10:24 AM

The younger D prospects will all stay in WBS. Makes no sense to rush them to the NHL when you have Strait and Bortuzzo definitely ready (and waiver-eligible). Tangradi needs to get his chances this year, hopefully he keeps scoring for the Baby Pens so he builds confidence.

It will be interesting if the new CBA calls for some amnesty buyouts again, in that case we could end up with another veteran on the cheap.

Skk82 11-05-2012 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd (Post 55537989)
With all the Dmen that we have in the system I don't think they would be worried about losing Reese to waivers. He's looked good in WBS but I don't think he's any better than Lovejoy.

The point is- given the logjam of contracts the Pens have for 5-6-7 veteran guys (Engelland, Lovejoy, Strait, Bortuzzo, Reese), it would take a hell of an effort from a non-waiver eligible guy like Despres to make the teamÖIn whatís probably going to be a 1 week training camp thatís not going to give a rookie any time to shine.

Itís a pure numbers game and the rookies donít have the time or places in Pittsburgh.

Which is fine, with guys like Strait/Bortuzzo in Pittsburgh, thatís more ice-time and opportunities for Despres, Morrow, Dumoulin the chance to grow in WB/S.

Darth Vitale 11-05-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob (Post 55536917)
I don't think the season will be abbreviated to 50 games. The 94/95 lockout lasted until the end of January and they still had a 45 game season. At this point, *if* the lockout can be settled in the next 3-4 weeks, I see a 60+ game season.

Hopefully.

PensFan6687 11-05-2012 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob (Post 55536917)
I doubt there will be room in the NHL even for Despres, let alone Dumoulin. The Pens still have 6 d-men on one-way deals, plus Strait and Bort who are waiver eligible. And Reese.

I don't think the season will be abbreviated to 50 games. The 94/95 lockout lasted until the end of January and they still had a 45 game season. At this point, *if* the lockout can be settled in the next 3-4 weeks, I see a 60+ game season.

We don't know for sure that will happen.. Weither we get a 60 game, 40 game or no season at this point. The cancellation of the WC is huge! That's single handedly the biggest game for the NHL now and a top money grosser. It kills a lot of incentive getting a deal struck to start the season ASAP. Of course both sides want to keep playing, but so many mistakes and errors have been made, more-so on the owner's/management front, that they are hellbent on winning this new CBA. This won't end until the get a deal where they feel they are the clear-cut winners. If the potential of losing another season, and annexing any mom and pop operation that relies on the NHL for its business, lost interest in fan support, and money this year and the future as a result from it can be deemed a winning situation. Also, ever heard of injuries (rhetorical, I know), and it's not the last time a guy gets waived for not pulling his end. To think Dumoulin can't find himself onto the roster if he has what the Pens need right now (and they are a team of now) is ignorance. He can be physical. He has the size, the long reach (great poke checker), and very positionally sound. Makes sweet outlet passes and while he doesn't shoot much, he can always work on that. I just get a good feeling he'll be on this team sooner rather than later.

Sivek 11-05-2012 04:33 PM

Honestly, the only guy down in WBS that I think will start with the Pens if there is a season is Tangradi. Despres will get caught in the numbers game. There's no reason to lose Strait/Bortuzzo to waivers to clear a spot for him, especially since his play at WBS hasn't been good enough to warrant it. Not that Despres has played poorly but he hasn't played well enough to lose one of S/B for nothing on waivers.

Dumoulin has played well but he's the 4th (maybe 5th) d-man on the totem pole in order of making the jump from WBS to the Pens. So unless there are a ton of injuries or some unexpected transactions, I don't think Dumoulin will see time with the Pens this season.

bigd 11-05-2012 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sivek (Post 55546101)
Honestly, the only guy down in WBS that I think will start with the Pens if there is a season is Tangradi. Despres will get caught in the numbers game. There's no reason to lose Strait/Bortuzzo to waivers to clear a spot for him, especially since his play at WBS hasn't been good enough to warrant it. Not that Despres has played poorly but he hasn't played well enough to lose one of S/B for nothing on waivers.

Dumoulin has played well but he's the 4th (maybe 5th) d-man on the totem pole in order of making the jump from WBS to the Pens. So unless there are a ton of injuries or some unexpected transactions, I don't think Dumoulin will see time with the Pens this season.

Agreed. Out of all the D-man I think Dumoulin has impressed me the most just because he's a rookie that doesn't look like a rookie. But he is definetly behind Strait, Bortuzzo, Reese, and Despres. I don't care how good he looks, he's getting sheltered minutes. They aren't going to lose Strait or Bortuzzo for nothing. But I wouldn't be shocked to see him get some NHL games in this season due to injuries.

Ragamuffin Gunner 11-05-2012 07:33 PM

I think what is more important, which no one has mentioned, is the fact that vets count against the cap even if they're in the minors. Is Shero still going to sign every marginal vet who's available each off season? And will this mean that DB has even less incentive to sit the vets for rookies?

MrBurgundy* 11-05-2012 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner (Post 55550177)
I think what is more important, which no one has mentioned, is the fact that vets count against the cap even if they're in the minors. Is Shero still going to sign every marginal vet who's available each off season? And will this mean that DB has even less incentive to sit the vets for rookies?

I don't think that's true at all... If you aren't on the NHL roster, then you aren't counted against the cap.

Ragamuffin Gunner 11-05-2012 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBurgundy (Post 55550475)
I don't think that's true at all... If you aren't on the NHL roster, then you aren't counted against the cap.

According to the NHLs last proposal, yes they would.

MrBurgundy* 11-05-2012 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner (Post 55550527)
According to the NHLs last proposal, yes they would.

Oh, you're talking about in the new CBA, sorry. :laugh:


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