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-   -   Prospect Info: St. Louis Blues Top Prospect #26 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1281085)

bluesfan94 11-09-2012 12:18 AM

St. Louis Blues Top Prospect #26
 
Anthony Peluso fights off the others (get it, get it?) to take the 25 spot with 25.00% of the vote.

Top Prospect
#1 Vladimir Tarasenko, RW, 6'0, 191, 12/13/1991 (92.16%)
#2 Jaden Schwartz, LW, 5'9, 179, 6/25/1992 (92.50%)
#3 Ty Rattie, RW, 6'0, 167, 2/5/1993 (57.38%)
#4 Ian Cole, D, 6'1, 225, 2/21/1989 (75.61%)
#5 Jake Allen, G, 6'2, 195, 8/7/1990 (73.33%)
#6 Jordan Schmaltz, D, 6'2, 170, 10/8/1993 (38.1%)
#7 Jani Hakanpaa, D, 6'5, 218, 3/31/1992 (64.71%)
#8 Cade Fairchild, D, 5'11, 175, 1/15/1989 (61.7%)
#9 Philip McRae, C, 6'2, 200, 3/15/1990 (57.89%)
#10 Sebastian Wannstrom, RW, 6'1, 183, 3/3/1991 (30.95%)
#11 Evgeny Grachev, C/LW, 6'4, 225, 2/21/1990 (38.10%)
(tie) #12 Sam Kurker, RW, 6'2, 198, 4/8/94 (30.00%)
(tie) #12 Jori Lehtera, C, 6'1, 201, 12/23/87 (30.00%)
#14 Joel Edmundson, D, 6'4, 192, 6/28/93 (51.85%)
#15 Dmitrij Jaskin, RW, 6'2, 198, 3/23/93 (40.54%)
#16 Brett Ponich, D, 6'7, 220, 2/22/91 (42.11%)
#17 Yannick Veilleux, LW, 6'2, 190, 2/22/93 (48.48%)
#18 MacKenzie MacEachern, LW, 6'2, 174, 3/9/94 (35.39%)
#19 Ryan Tesink, C/LW, 6'0, 165, 5/21/93 (44.83%)
#20 Teemu Eronen, D, 5'10, 181, 11/22/91 (50.00%)
#21 Sergei Andronov, RW, 6'0, 183, 7/19/89 (44.00%)
#22 Colton Parayko, D, 6'5, 191, 5/12/93 (40.00%)
#23 Jordan Binnington, G, 6'1, 154, 7/11/93 (59.38%)
#24 Cody Beach, RW, 6'5, 184, 8/8/1992 (38.46%)
#25 Anthony Peluso, RW, 6'3, 235, 4/18/1989 (25.00%)

Please both vote and comment on who you'd like to be added, if there's anyone even possible.

letmesleep 11-09-2012 03:58 AM

I can't claim to know a lot about most of the guys left but my vote is going to Max Gardiner. He's a big 6'3" center and has 5 points in 7 games for Penn State, good for 3rd-most on the team. Honorable mention goes to Niklas Lundstrom, who has played 7 games in the SEL. He appears to be the only junior goaltender to have played in more than one SEL game this season. His numbers aren't great in the SEL but just the fact that he has been earned the opportunity to play there is a very good sign.

Really though, at this point my judgement will only be marginally better than picking names out of a hat.

BlueSinceBirth 11-09-2012 04:40 AM

Came between Walters and Gardiner for me. Went with Walters but Gardiner is a wild card in our system.

stlweir 11-09-2012 07:47 AM

Went with Walters as Gardiner is two years older.

STL fan in IA 11-09-2012 11:05 AM

I'm not really high on Gardiner at all. He couldn't cut in at U of Minn 2 years ago and wasn't very impressive at all in the USHL last season while being 2 yrs older than most players. Now he's the 3rd/4th leading scorer on a team which is in their first year in the NCAA? Color me not impressed. I hope this is the start of a turn around for him but I'd be quite shocked if he's able to pull his career out if the gutter and actually make it to the NHL.

I'm voting for Walters here. After that, it's probably Nigro. He had a very solid season last year as a 3rd/4th line center for the Rivs and the only reason he hasn't made more noise this season is that he started the season on IR with a concussion. I'm pretty surprised he hasn't gotten any votes yet. After that, I'm probably going with Lundstrom and Karpowich. Lundstrom's an absolute sleeper. He's got very good technique and should be on Sweden's team for the WJC this year.

PocketNines 11-09-2012 03:49 PM

Agree with IA's take on Gardiner. Open to him resurrecting his prospect viability but I have him close to last. Definitely after someone like Sonne.

Went with Walters, few rounds in a row now.

Crumblin Erb Brooks 11-09-2012 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PocketNines (Post 55649079)
Agree with IA's take on Gardiner. Open to him resurrecting his prospect viability but I have him close to last. Definitely after someone like Sonne.

Went with Walters, few rounds in a row now.

The guy who didnt make the AHL team (and one that appears to not be very good) out of camp in his third pro season?

Went Cundari, he was pretty highly ranked last year. He didnt have a great season and Fairchild seems to have replaced him as the best small Dman in the pipeline, but he still intrigues me more than the rest.

Robb_K 11-09-2012 04:06 PM

I chose Walters. He has the potential to be a solid #4 defensive defenceman, who will be more valuable to a team than a 3rd line forward.

PocketNines 11-09-2012 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks (Post 55649397)
The guy who didnt make the AHL team (and one that appears to not be very good) out of camp in his third pro season?

Yes. Gardiner hasn't even shown the faintest fraction of things Sonne has already done. Don't get me wrong, Sonne's not a good prospect, but I made the comparison to emphasize how little I think of Max Gardiner, and IA spelled it out why.

h22prelude93 11-09-2012 08:21 PM

Personally, I think it's a bit harsh to say Gardiner's career is in the gutter. At University of Minnesota he was the second youngest player on his team and played limited minutes in only 17 games(Average age of 1st year division I players is 20-21 yrs). Last season in the USHL he certainly didn't tear it up, but 12 goals and 14 assists isn't a complete failure either. I think it's also important to keep in mind the Blues drafted him right out of high school knowing that he was the type of player that would take some time to develop(See Sam Kurker). That said, I'm certainly not ready to give up on Gardiner and I like the way he's playing for Penn State so far this season. Like the rest of these guys left...it's a wash whether or not he'll pan out for the Blues, but as a third round prospect with good size and considerable offensive upside I definitely like his chances.

Celtic Note 11-09-2012 09:08 PM

I cannot believe we are still voting on players of this quality. It is a good time to be a Blues fan...well if we were playing.

PerryTurnbullfan 11-10-2012 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h22prelude93 (Post 55656129)
Personally, I think it's a bit harsh to say Gardiner's career is in the gutter. At University of Minnesota he was the second youngest player on his team and played limited minutes in only 17 games(Average age of 1st year division I players is 20-21 yrs). Last season in the USHL he certainly didn't tear it up, but 12 goals and 14 assists isn't a complete failure either. I think it's also important to keep in mind the Blues drafted him right out of high school knowing that he was the type of player that would take some time to develop(See Sam Kurker). That said, I'm certainly not ready to give up on Gardiner and I like the way he's playing for Penn State so far this season. Like the rest of these guys left...it's a wash whether or not he'll pan out for the Blues, but as a third round prospect with good size and considerable offensive upside I definitely like his chances.

I agree. My next vote after Walters. If we want to write players off after subpar years, then I suggest you take Jaskins off your list too.....ha ha. He all of the sudden has shot into our top 5. Based on this year and his total package of size and skill and numbers to match it, don't be surprised if he may surpass Rattie as a prospect.

PocketNines 11-10-2012 01:19 PM

I agree that prospects can move up and move down in the rankings, but all you can do is check the evidence you see. Gardiner may one day actually show something and then moving him up will be justified – like I said, I'm totally open to him blossoming, as that would be great for the Blues. But Penn State hockey isn't real college hockey (more like a glorified college club team) and he's not even their best player.

I do agree that it's often difficult to assess why a prospect is having a bad development season. We all scratched our heads about Jaskin last year because he seemed to fall off a cliff, but he's still obviously a viable prospect based on what we see this year. Last year his rankings drop was justified based on the evidence; this year his rankings climb is justified based on the evidence.

Here's hoping I'm very wrong about Gardiner.

stlweir 11-10-2012 05:09 PM

The box scores list Gardiner as a RW. Dont know if that is accurate.

Dolph Ziggler 11-10-2012 06:37 PM

I'm still partial to SDR.

STL fan in IA 11-11-2012 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h22prelude93 (Post 55656129)
Personally, I think it's a bit harsh to say Gardiner's career is in the gutter. At University of Minnesota he was the second youngest player on his team and played limited minutes in only 17 games(Average age of 1st year division I players is 20-21 yrs). Last season in the USHL he certainly didn't tear it up, but 12 goals and 14 assists isn't a complete failure either. I think it's also important to keep in mind the Blues drafted him right out of high school knowing that he was the type of player that would take some time to develop(See Sam Kurker). That said, I'm certainly not ready to give up on Gardiner and I like the way he's playing for Penn State so far this season. Like the rest of these guys left...it's a wash whether or not he'll pan out for the Blues, but as a third round prospect with good size and considerable offensive upside I definitely like his chances.

The average age of 1st year NCAA players is certainly not 20-21. According to THIS, the average age of a NCAA roster this season is 21.17 yr old. If that's the average, then incoming freshmen are certainly younger than the average. The oldest average roster is American Int'l at 22.31 yrs old with the youngest average roster being Boston College at 20.00. Vote for Gardiner if you want but please don't make up your own facts to support your reasoning. I'll also note that the average age of legit NHL prospects (kids that get drafted) are quite a bit younger on average than many of the rest of the kids playing NCAA hockey. Comparing the age of a kid expected to challenge for a NHL job someday to the age of a kid who had to play in the USHL until age 20 just to barely earn a college scholarship to a low level program with no hopes of a pro career doesn't really make much sense either.

Besides the age aspect of it, Gardiner simply isn't very good. I watched him play in person a few times last season and he was an average at best USHL player and that is not good considering that only the best of the best of the USHL typically have a chance at an NHL career and it looks even worse considering that most legit pro prospects playing in the USHL are 17, maybe 18, yet Gardiner was 19 and was still just an average player. When watching him last season, I saw nothing at all to suggest that he would become an NHLer.

If he pulls his career around, great. I'll be very happy for him and the Blues but I just don't see any reason to think he will. Yes, he could be a late bloomer but I'm not holding out hope and while it's possible, all I'm saying is that even this far down into the rankings, I would value quite a few players before Gardiner.

h22prelude93 11-11-2012 06:07 PM

First off, I didn't make anything up to support my reasoning. That's not my style. I got the 20-21 figure from USA Hockey's website. Also, here's a recent quote from Pete Souris(commiss for public relations for Hockey East) “If you’re a hockey player, you’re likely to play in elite junior leagues in the U.S. and Canada for several years before enrolling in college. That means that the average Division I college freshman hockey player is more than 20 years old.” Now that figure could be wrong, BUT I did not just make it up. As for Gardiner, I really don't care to argue or discuss it anymore. Some of us think he's a bust, and some of us still have a little faith in the guy. End of story. At this stage I think it's pretty easy to make arguments for or against for any of the remaining prospects.

Crumblin Erb Brooks 11-11-2012 08:53 PM

Whats the rule on how long we have the rights to players like Gardiner and MacEachern who sat out a year in the USHL. And/Or does the fact Gardiner transferred affect this as well? Do we have until after their junior (4 years after being drafted) or their senior year?

As for Gardiner, he is off to a good start, but PennSt. is an independent hockey team now and playing against a lot of inferior teams. I think they play some better teams later in the season, but he has a lot to prove after doing almost nothing in the two years following the draft.


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