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-   -   Proposal: Van - edm - fla (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1281235)

Oates2Neely 11-09-2012 01:34 PM

Van - edm - fla
 
To FLA:
Yakupov
Klefblom
Horcoff
Gagner

To VAN:
Hemsky
Khabibulin
Mueller

To EDM:
Weiss
Kulikov
Luongo
Ballard

- - - - -

Oilers recieve: #2 center to play behind Nuge (Weiss), dman to anchor their top pairing (Kulikov), an elite starting goaltender (Luongo), and a solid albeit slightly overpaid mid-pairing dman (Ballard) who will provide a nice veteran presence to mentor the young Edmonton blueline. All while clearing significant capspace in moving out Hemsky & Horcoff.

Nucks recieve: A top-6 winger whom IF healthy could mesh well on a line with Kesler. Khabilbulin, short term deal, vet backstop who can provide a calming presence for Schneider if he runs into a wall his first season as a starter. All while finally putting Luongo behind them, & moving a solid but miscast Ballard who didnt have a place in Vancouver. Peter Mueller a big bodied winger who can help solidify Nucks 3rd line, or chip in on top-6 during injuries.


Panthers recieve: A young potential scoring phenom whom the team could market as the face of their franchise (Yakupov). A young potential top-4 slick dman (Klefblom) who'd help ease the pain of losing Kulikov. A small, young, but w/ potential, top-9 center who'd slot in nicely behind Huberdeau & Bjustad, could even slide into top-6 role if needed. (Horcoff), who would provide a veteran presence at #3 center, slightly overpaid but still solid, physical, defensive minded.

Did i miss anything? ;)

Moore Money 11-09-2012 01:38 PM

Don't want anything to do with Hemsky on the Canucks. You would probably like it though, knowing Chara could injure him with just a look.

DemampCamp 11-09-2012 01:42 PM

Why even make this a 3 way trade when vancouver gives nothing and receives nothing from florida???

DemampCamp 11-09-2012 01:43 PM

Oh, and this is one of the worst proposals I have ever seen, ever.

Oates2Neely 11-09-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macgruber (Post 55646461)
Why even make this a 3 way trade when vancouver gives nothing and receives nothing from florida???

Fixed (added Mueller)

& why is it the worst? Because Vancouver doesnt get a stud in exchange for Luongo? Nuck fans need to let that dream go.

tuckrr 11-09-2012 02:04 PM

Does this trade propose moving yakupov?
Not sure if serious

DemampCamp 11-09-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oates2Neely (Post 55646689)
Fixed (added Mueller)

& why is it the worst? Because Vancouver doesnt get a stud in exchange for Luongo? Nuck fans need to let that dream go.

No, because EDM trades away Yakupov Klefblom Horcoff & Gagner for Weiss and Kulikov... If I was edmonton I wouldnt trade away Yakupov alone for that in a million years, the kids gonna be a superstar, and then you add in more on Edmontons side... :scared:

Luongo + Ballard is pretty close to equal value for Hemsky + Khabi + Mueller, but it doesnt really do anything for Vancouvers defense losing Ballard who actually played very good in the second half and playoffs last year.

Maybe Luongo + Raymond for Hemsky + Khabi + Mueller, or Luongo + Ballard + pick for Hemsky + Klefblom + Mueller

DemampCamp 11-09-2012 02:07 PM

But either way this trade would never happen because EDM isn't trading away Yakupov to FLA for anything less then Huberdeau or Gudbranson

NYVanfan 11-09-2012 02:18 PM

To FLA:

Yakupov
Klefblom
Horcoff
Gagner

To VAN:
Hemsky
Khabibulin
Mueller

To EDM:
Weiss
Kulikov
Luongo
Ballard


Mueller was a reclamation UFA ...has to prove he's worth anything....since Fla just signed him and he hasn't played a game, I dont see him moving. For the Canucks, do not want.

So its Hemsky & Khabi for Luo and Ballard, which I think is bad for the Canucks, as IMO Luo>Hemsky and Ballard>Khabi

For Fla, Mueller>Horcoff and Weiss>Gagner, but Yak alone >> Kulikov, and then Kef is thrown in, that's a win for them.

For Edm, Ballard prob = Horcoff, Weiss prob = Gagner & Kef, then theyre getting Luongo for Yak.

In short, good for Fla, bad for the other 2.
Interesting effort though, far from worst proposal...

I've thought a decent Edm-Van deal would be

Hemsky/Gagner/Khabi for Luo/Ballard

but Edm fans didnt like it ...they'd need another top 2C, among other value perception issues..

glenbuis 11-09-2012 02:22 PM

great for florida edmonton gets robbed vancouver robbed even worse

WeridAl 11-09-2012 03:02 PM

Why do Oilers fans get tortured like this, ranks up there with the most brute proposals.

Cogburn 11-09-2012 03:33 PM

From a Canucks perspective, I don't hate this. Ballard+Luongo for Hemsky, Mueller and Khabibulin. We could do a lot worse.

I think Florida has a good reason to not do this, although it does resupply them with forwards, and they get Yak, they lose Weiss and Mueller up front. Kulikov is no huge loss by contrast the the recieved player, but for a financially concious teams like Florida, I think Horcoff is a nonstarter.

For Edmonton, the only reason I think they don't set you on fire is because you are clearly a Boston fan, and not one of us Canucks. Weiss, Kulikov and Ballard would all fill holes on the Oilers roster, but the big fish, Luongo, they have been on record stating they don't want to move Yakupov for.

Yak = Luongo...ish. The top prospect from last years draft for a top five player at his position...value here depends on who you ask. Oilers will hold on to Yak.

Klefbom = Kulikov, Kulikov seems like he will be ready to contribute sooner, but Klefbom has a higher ceiling.

Gagner < Weiss, although this one came down to my personal preference, and the fact I'm not attatched to either.

Horcoff < Ballard, Horcoff is relegated to a 3C role due to his play of late, could be revitalized, but he's still the captain of the Oilers for a reason with the kids, Smyth back and other players making contributions, but in terms of on ice performance, Ballard plays his position better, and I think would be an valuable contributor to the Oilers, plus his cap hit and cost are lower then Horcoff.

I think the Oilers win value, but they have plenty of good reasons to turn this down.

As an added note...Florida is part of this trade and isn't Lu's destination, and we move Lu and don't recieve a "big" piece back. Funny how that worked. :laugh:

Vankiller Whale 11-09-2012 03:35 PM

^ Yakupov > Luongo
Kulikov >> Klefbom

In terms of value. Weiss is better than Gagner, but is also an upcoming UFA, and Florida's number 1 C. Otherwise Gagner will be their number 1 C.

604 11-09-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oates2Neely (Post 55646689)
Fixed (added Mueller)

& why is it the worst? Because Vancouver doesnt get a stud in exchange for Luongo? Nuck fans need to let that dream go.

As you Bruins fan you should know not to listen to HF like its reality.

If it was, you would have traded Tim Thomas + 1st just to get rid of his contract in 2009.

Cogburn 11-09-2012 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenbuis (Post 55647265)
great for florida edmonton gets robbed vancouver robbed even worse

I don't think it's highway robbery...two top six forwards, one of whom can slot into our 3C position...it's not that terrible, just I think perhaps the wrong piece in Mueller.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeridAl (Post 55648025)
Why do Oilers fans get tortured like this, ranks up there with the most brute proposals.

You want "torturous" proposals, check the 40ish Luongo threads :laugh:

Cogburn 11-09-2012 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55648729)
^ Yakupov > Luongo
Kulikov >> Klefbom

In terms of value. Weiss is better than Gagner, but is also an upcoming UFA, and Florida's number 1 C. Otherwise Gagner will be their number 1 C.

Really, I may have misjudged Klefbom, there have been a lot of comparibles to the big 4 in terms of value from Oilers fans.

Yakupov v. Luongo I think is more edge to Lu, given Yakupov has yet to play a game in the NHL (not saying because his play or anything) and I'd want to seem him in motion in the bigs before I say that.

Weiss's UFA status I took into account, I'd take one year to negotiate with Weiss and have him contribute over Gagner for...what, 3 more I think?

Anyway, all of the < = > stuff was my opinion, and I have absolutely 0 research or empirical evidence to support it.

Vankiller Whale 11-09-2012 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogburn (Post 55648871)
Really, I may have misjudged Klefbom, there have been a lot of comparibles to the big 4 in terms of value from Oilers fans.

Yakupov v. Luongo I think is more edge to Lu, given Yakupov has yet to play a game in the NHL (not saying because his play or anything) and I'd want to seem him in motion in the bigs before I say that.

Weiss's UFA status I took into account, I'd take one year to negotiate with Weiss and have him contribute over Gagner for...what, 3 more I think?

Anyway, all of the < = > stuff was my opinion, and I have absolutely 0 research or empirical evidence to support it.

Kulikov is a top pairing defenseman. Klefbom is good, but realistically what Kulikov is now is his upside. And there are only a few players in the league you could trade straight up for a 1st overall pick, and Luongo isn't one of them.

Laus723 11-09-2012 04:06 PM

Lol, none of the teams do this.

PierreMcGuire* 11-09-2012 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogburn (Post 55648679)

I think Florida has a good reason to not do this, although it does resupply them with forwards, and they get Yak, they lose Weiss and Mueller up front. Kulikov is no huge loss by contrast the the recieved player, but for a financially concious teams like Florida, I think Horcoff is a nonstarter.

Klefbom = Kulikov, Kulikov seems like he will be ready to contribute sooner, but Klefbom has a higher ceiling.

Klefbom is not equal to Kulikov. Kulikov is the biggest loss in the trade for Florida, and the reason to consider not making the trade.

At the end of the day the trade is still beneficial to Florida, because of getting Yakupov, but your seriously wrong about Kulikov.

WeridAl 11-09-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogburn (Post 55648765)
I don't think it's highway robbery...two top six forwards, one of whom can slot into our 3C position...it's not that terrible, just I think perhaps the wrong piece in Mueller.



You want "torturous" proposals, check the 40ish Luongo threads :laugh:

No thanks, could get into trouble with the MP's.:laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55649231)
Kulikov is a top pairing defenseman. Klefbom is good, but realistically what Kulikov is now is his upside. And there are only a few players in the league you could trade straight up for a 1st overall pick, and Luongo isn't one of them.

Kulikov could be a great offensive D, top pairing is still questionable. Klefbom doesn't have the offensive skill Kulikov has, but he's a better all around D with the size and speed. It's debatable which one would be better.

Fourier 11-09-2012 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogburn (Post 55648871)
Really, I may have misjudged Klefbom, there have been a lot of comparibles to the big 4 in terms of value from Oilers fans.

Yakupov v. Luongo I think is more edge to Lu, given Yakupov has yet to play a game in the NHL (not saying because his play or anything) and I'd want to seem him in motion in the bigs before I say that.

Weiss's UFA status I took into account, I'd take one year to negotiate with Weiss and have him contribute over Gagner for...what, 3 more I think?

Anyway, all of the < = > stuff was my opinion, and I have absolutely 0 research or empirical evidence to support it.

There is not a chance that the Oilers would see Yakupov = Luongo. Nor would any other GM including Gillis.

There is also no way that the Oilers would trade Gagner and Klefbom for Weiss who is a UFA in one year. In fact, I'd be shocked if they would trade Klefbom for Weiss since aside from Schultz Klefbom is definitley the top defensive prospect in the system. I like Weiss but he is not the palyer the Oilers are looking for to back up RNH.

TheJuxtaposer 11-09-2012 05:16 PM

There is some horrible underrating of Kulikov in this thread. He's an absolute stud. He's already a solid #2 defenseman, with potential still to go. I think he ends up a lower end #1D who's good defensively and offensive.

If Edmonton would rather have Gudbranson, that shouldn't be a problem. Kulikov is much, much better.

CSimpson18 11-09-2012 05:23 PM

Oilers give up:

Yakupov
Klefbom
Hemsky
Gagner
Horcoff

Whaaa??? This is the worst proposal I have ever seen. This is not hyperbole. Absolutely awful. If there was a shoot myself in the face emoticon, now would be the time to use it.

Also Luongo > Yakupov? Drink less.

Cogburn 11-09-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23 17 23 (Post 55649581)
Klefbom is not equal to Kulikov. Kulikov is the biggest loss in the trade for Florida, and the reason to consider not making the trade.

At the end of the day the trade is still beneficial to Florida, because of getting Yakupov, but your seriously wrong about Kulikov.

I have nothing to base Klefbom on, and the player I was referring to as being less of a loss in context was Yakupov.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeridAl (Post 55649731)
No thanks, could get into trouble with the MP's.:laugh:

Sigh...we laugh so we don't cry about that.:laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourier (Post 55650525)
There is not a chance that the Oilers would see Yakupov = Luongo. Nor would any other GM including Gillis.

There is also no way that the Oilers would trade Gagner and Klefbom for Weiss who is a UFA in one year. In fact, I'd be shocked if they would trade Klefbom for Weiss since aside from Schultz Klefbom is definitley the top defensive prospect in the system. I like Weiss but he is not the palyer the Oilers are looking for to back up RNH.

Absolutely the Oilers wouldn't see that as equal, but in terms of value, in a vacuum say (non-existant), a perennial star player still putting up great numbers has to be worth as much as someone who hasn't touched the ice yet.

Weiss and Kulikov, 23 17 23 and Vankillerwhale, among others, have set me straight that Kulikov is worth a lot more then I gave him credit for. And again, I did say it was a personal choice as to whether Gagner is better or more valuable then Weiss. I say Weiss, and RNH-Weiss looks better to me then RNH-Gagner.


And again, I understand why the Oilers fans don't do this, my explanation was that value shouldn't be the reason. Preference, the state of the team, keeping futures vs. players at their peaks now...all totally reasonable reasons.

Jamin 11-09-2012 07:48 PM

Not surprised to see the only people who took this thread seriously are the same ones who think Luongo has value with that contract


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