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-   -   Value of: Ales Hemsky to DET (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1281959)

hlaverty06 11-11-2012 06:39 AM

Ales Hemsky to DET
 
Do you guys personally think DET has anything EDM wants to acquire Ales Hemsky and round out their top 6 to look something line

Franzen-Datsyuk-Hemsky
Zetterberg-Filppula-Samuelsson/Bertuzzi

?

Gustav Nyquist 11-11-2012 06:41 AM

Nah. We have much bigger needs.

PADevil3034 11-11-2012 08:48 AM

Detroit would probably rather sink assets into a solid/top defenseman rather than another forward.

P U L L H A R D 11-11-2012 09:08 AM

Let us sort out our other problems first, then we can address Hemsky :laugh:

SDig14 11-11-2012 11:35 AM

Judging by the above, Detroit has bigger needs than a RW at this point.

From the Oilers standpoint, I think they signed him to 2 years because they are committed to sticking with him and hoping he is healthy and gets his game back.

IMO, this is the last run for Hemsky in Edmonton, but they will let him try to succeed before they deal him. If he can stay healthy, click with the young kids, and get his game together then he may stick long-term.

If not, he will probably be dealt at this or next trade deadline IMO.

zeus3007* 11-11-2012 12:05 PM

Not sure why either team does this. Both need top pair d-men, Oilers need size in the number two center hole and the Wings don't have that. Doesn`t seem to be a match to me.

Wingsfan2965* 11-11-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlaverty06 (Post 55684379)
Do you guys personally think DET has anything EDM wants to acquire Ales Hemsky and round out their top 6 to look something line

Franzen-Datsyuk-Hemsky
Zetterberg-Filppula-Samuelsson/Bertuzzi

?

Franzen - Datsyuk - Nyquist
Filppula - Zetterberg - Brunner

That's what Detroit's Top Six will look like. (Maybe Samuelsson if Brunner doesn't play as well with Zetterberg here as he is overseas)

Even if we weren't completely jammed at forward right now (16 under contract and Tatar is probably ready to be called up) the defensive need is much more apparent.

The Red Line 11-11-2012 02:18 PM

This just in:

DETROIT DOES NOT NEED FORWARDS.

They have SEVENTEEN forwards currently. That doesn't even include a handful of the prospects knocking on the door.

An overpaid, underperforming, injury-ridden, undersized, 1-way winger is THE last thing the Wings need right now.

The Nuge 11-11-2012 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Line (Post 55691401)
This just in:

DETROIT DOES NOT NEED FORWARDS.

They have SEVENTEEN forwards currently. That doesn't even include a handful of the prospects knocking on the door.

An overpaid, underperforming, injury-ridden, undersized, 1-way winger is THE last thing the Wings need right now.

This just in, you CAN actually make a point without flat out lying about a player.

In regards to the OP, only way Edmonton would move Hemmer would be for a top 6 powerforward or as a package for a top pairing dman. Detroit just isn't a good trading partner

The Red Line 11-11-2012 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nuge (Post 55691655)
This just in, you CAN actually make a point without flat out lying about a player.

In regards to the OP, only way Edmonton would move Hemmer would be for a top 6 powerforward or as a package for a top pairing dman. Detroit just isn't a good trading partner

Which part of what I said was untrue? I'd love to know.

zeus3007* 11-11-2012 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Line (Post 55704601)
Which part of what I said was untrue? I'd love to know.

All of it but injury-riddled.

The Nose 11-11-2012 09:47 PM

Yeah Detroit has 17 NHL-ready forwards...

How about Eaves, Bertuzzi & Emmerton for 5 bucks? We'll throw in Miller for an extra 5 (even though I like Miller).

WeridAl 11-11-2012 10:16 PM

I like what I've seen of Marek Tvrdon and would consider Hemsky for Tvrdon + 2nd.

SirloinUB 11-12-2012 02:03 AM

As a wings fan living in edmonton... NO ****ING THANK-YOU

The Zetterberg Era 11-12-2012 04:12 AM

Hemsky to Detroit... It has tons of value and we all know Holland is a fan. It is however apparent that nobody is going to meet Edmonton's value on Hemsky. He might be finally dealt this year at the deadline, but that would be if he flamed out of the top 6 which is unlikely and that will kill his value. I like him a lot as a player even as the resident Tvrdon fanboy on the Detroit page I would easily flip him and a second for Hemsky.

Hemsky is not a soft player and he isn't a one way player. He is a guy that has had a lot of injuries, but he plays the game hard and has tons of talent. He makes the Wings a better team tomorrow especially if all it takes is draft picks and prospects. Problem is that 5 million tag isn't great with a dropping cap and Filppula and Howard coming to free agency next year. I would love to have him in Detroit, but they have other concerns and I just don't see this trade materializing. There is a reason this has been thrown around for at least three years. If it could be made, I think it would have happened by now.

The Nose 11-12-2012 06:42 AM

I don't think the Wings would give up Tvrdon and a 2nd for Hemsky unless Brenner is a complete bust. Tvrdon is a pretty rare prospect for the Wings (power forward with offensive upside) that could REALLY helpful if he progresses into a Top-6 power forward.

Roof Daddy 11-12-2012 10:04 AM

I thought at last year's deadline Holland was interested, but wouldn't offer more than a 2nd rder (no source, but I recall EDM radio analysts claiming that was the top offer on their trade deadline coverage). If all we get offered is a 2nd + middling prospect (not saying that necessarily applies to Tvrdon), then I'd much rather hold on to Hemmer and see if he returns to form. The fact of the matter is, when the guy is both healthy and playing with confidence, he can put up near a point per game. I would at least like to see if we can make it work with him and Yakupov (one of them making the conversion to LW).

Also, just curious about Tvrdon as I don't know much about him. Would he be comparable to Hartikainen? If so, I'd definitely be interested in acquiring him in a different deal. Maybe if (and it's a lot of ifs) we have an NHL season, and we're out of playoff contention while the Wings are in it, and Whitney has had a healthy season, perhaps Tvrdon and a 2nd is on the table for a rental of Whitney.

Mystifo 11-12-2012 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlaverty06 (Post 55684379)
Do you guys personally think DET has anything EDM wants to acquire Ales Hemsky and round out their top 6 to look something line

Franzen-Datsyuk-Hemsky
Zetterberg-Filppula-Samuelsson/Bertuzzi

?

I think Detroit is betting on the Chemistry of Zetterberg and Brunner filling out that top 6.

SirloinUB 11-12-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 55708305)
Hemsky to Detroit... It has tons of value and we all know Holland is a fan. It is however apparent that nobody is going to meet Edmonton's value on Hemsky. He might be finally dealt this year at the deadline, but that would be if he flamed out of the top 6 which is unlikely and that will kill his value. I like him a lot as a player even as the resident Tvrdon fanboy on the Detroit page I would easily flip him and a second for Hemsky.

Hemsky is not a soft player and he isn't a one way player. He is a guy that has had a lot of injuries, but he plays the game hard and has tons of talent. He makes the Wings a better team tomorrow especially if all it takes is draft picks and prospects. Problem is that 5 million tag isn't great with a dropping cap and Filppula and Howard coming to free agency next year. I would love to have him in Detroit, but they have other concerns and I just don't see this trade materializing. There is a reason this has been thrown around for at least three years. If it could be made, I think it would have happened by now.

I guess, by definition, he is not soft. He is not afraid to go into the corners and get absolutely crushed by the likes of Robyn Regher. Yes, hemsky isnt afraid of the physical game, but he is not really capable of playing that type of hockey(hence all of the injuries.)

Secondly, as i said, I live in Edmonton. Ive watched countless games in Rexall. If you want to call him not a one way payer, it suggests he is a two way player. Which is false. Hemsky without the puck looks lost. He is not good defensively.

Ales Hemsky would add some play making ability to the wings. Thats not something we are lacking.

So to summarize, Lets pass on hemmer. If we can snag him for a 2nd/3rd, (and not a lick more than that) ill take him.

jroc86 11-12-2012 01:18 PM

Nope. Last yr @ the deadline there was some speculation he would be acquired ... not worth 5 mill a yr with his injury history. Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar etc all can fill the role he would have at a fraction the price. Save that 5 mill for Filp and Jimmys raises.

5RingsAndABeer 11-12-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jroc86 (Post 55714043)
Nope. Last yr @ the deadline there was some speculation he would be acquired ... not worth 5 mill a yr with his injury history. Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar etc all can fill the role he would have at a fraction the price. Save that 5 mill for Filp and Jimmys raises.

$5mil a year for a guy of Hemsky's calibre is a steal. And you're not screwed if he's injured because it's a 2-year deal with no strings attached

Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar, etc are nowhere close to filling the role that a healthy Hemsky would provide. Hemsky has a much better chance of playing like he did when he was younger than any of those guys progressing to that level.

Datsyuk Dangles 11-12-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer (Post 55714377)
$5mil a year for a guy of Hemsky's calibre is a steal. And you're not screwed if he's injured because it's a 2-year deal with no strings attached

Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar, etc are nowhere close to filling the role that a healthy Hemsky would provide. Hemsky has a much better chance of playing like he did when he was younger than any of those guys progressing to that level.

He has missed almost half of the total games the last three years. He's so injury prone it's ridiculous. If he were consistently healthy, he would be a steal at 5 million. He's not even close to that though. And last year he played most of the games and didn't do that well (not sure if he was playing injured or not, either way it hurts his value). I would much rather use one of the above three forwards than give up value for a player that can't stay healthy AND potentially lose Filppula or Howard.

zeus3007* 11-12-2012 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirloinUB (Post 55712017)
I guess, by definition, he is not soft. He is not afraid to go into the corners and get absolutely crushed by the likes of Robyn Regher. Yes, hemsky isnt afraid of the physical game, but he is not really capable of playing that type of hockey(hence all of the injuries.)

Secondly, as i said, I live in Edmonton. Ive watched countless games in Rexall. If you want to call him not a one way payer, it suggests he is a two way player. Which is false. Hemsky without the puck looks lost. He is not good defensively.

Ales Hemsky would add some play making ability to the wings. Thats not something we are lacking.

So to summarize, Lets pass on hemmer. If we can snag him for a 2nd/3rd, (and not a lick more than that) ill take him.

Being "not a 1-way player" doesn't imply that he's a defensive superstar, which isn't the case. He is adequate defensively, no more, no less. Your statement that Hemsky looks lost without the puck is simply false.

If you look at Hemsky's injuries, they are due to horrible hits, not just a little rough play. He has had injuries, yes, but there is no player in the league that could withstand some of the hits Hemsky took (thinking specifically of the Michal Handzus hit from behind that caused the first shoulder injury). He certainly has question marks, and probably isn't the best fit for Detroit right now, but your analysis is a bit off.

The Zetterberg Era 11-12-2012 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof Daddy (Post 55710485)
Also, just curious about Tvrdon as I don't know much about him. Would he be comparable to Hartikainen? If so, I'd definitely be interested in acquiring him in a different deal. Maybe if (and it's a lot of ifs) we have an NHL season, and we're out of playoff contention while the Wings are in it, and Whitney has had a healthy season, perhaps Tvrdon and a 2nd is on the table for a rental of Whitney.

I am a huge fan of Tvrdon but it is tough to really get a good read this year. The Vancouver Giants are awful, I would love to see him moved, for instance Portland has the Euro spaces and could use him on the LW. He is an offensive force and a big body at 6'2" 220 lbs. Plays the point on the PP, has nifty hands and can score in a variety of ways. His problem is compete level, he still doesn't show up with a consistent effort night in and night out. He is weak defensively, but he is a very intriguing prospect with a lot to offer if he irons out certain aspects of his game. He is a guy that plays better in scrimmages and games than practice which might make it tough for him to break through initially, especially with how the Wings run their prospects. I don't really want to move him and I am not sure Whitney could pry him away.

The Wings are not short on PP guys. They need stay at home PK guys or strong #1 types. I am not sure Whitney truly fits the bill there and rumors are his ankle will never be fully 100% at least I remember reading something along those lines. Maybe the long lockout will do him a lot of good.

In any event the reason I consider moving Tvrdon for Hemsky is pretty simple. He fits right now in the top 6. I think Tvrdon will pan out but there are only so many positions in the top 6 to go around and right now he looks like a top 6 guy or a third scoring line. Not playing with checkers. As much as I would love a Tvrdon-Sheahan-Jurco line in the future. The simple fact is, Hemsky is a quality NHL top 6 guy that I think fits the Wings system to a T and his right handed shot will significantly improve the PP.

Between Nyquist, Tatar, Brunner, Jurco, Tvrdon, Ferraro, Anathasiou, Frk, and Pulkkinen (I think he stinks) something has to give. They won't all pan out, but moving someone for something you are fairly certain will with an NHL track record is a low risk move given the depth on the wing. Hemsky isn't super old, you plug him in hope for better health and Franzen, Hemsky, Filppula/Zetterberg (think Z goes back out to Wing as he gets older) are the three of the four wingers for the next five years. Nyquist and Tatar compete for the other spot. Tatar has made enough advancements in his game to probably play third line with Helm and get points on 2nd PP unit. I also think Brunner really has the goods, so moving someone now isn't the worst idea. You can also use some of these assets to flip for a D-man. The Wings have a logjam developing, it needs to be addressed, this slow play has worked wonders, but I want them to avoid the Quincey esk cut that I see coming out on the wing positions.

rockinghockey 11-12-2012 05:59 PM

Hemsky would cost Smith and a 1st from DET; if you can't give that up then I guess a deal can't be done.


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