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-   -   Patrick Wiercioch Potential (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1281963)

simplefan 11-11-2012 07:29 AM

Patrick Wiercioch Potential
 
To me, he looks more and more like a Top-4 D , PP Quarterback. Ideally, if he ends up being like Corvo but better defensively, I'd be thrilled. He's really mobile for a 6'4 guy and he seems to do everything with authority.

I look forward for him to being a serious candidate next season to fill Gonchar's void if Ceci is not ready. He has proven that he is capable of being effective in the NHL. If he develops in a reliable Top 4, he would enable Karlsson to reach an other level. He would lower his load offensively and allow him to become more like Lidstrom (Lids was kinda like Karlsson in 92-93 with B. Murray then he got better defensively)

Qward 11-11-2012 11:10 AM

The puck to the throat last season really hampered his development.

Based on his play this season, I see him getting the call up over Boro right now.

White Goodman 11-11-2012 11:20 AM

I see a Kuba.

wubwubwubwub 11-11-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg (Post 55686771)
I see a Kuba.

If Kuba could skate like Patty he would be a sick dman. Other than that not a bad comparison. Wiercioch likely won't be quite the defensive player Kuba was as well.

HSF 11-11-2012 11:50 AM

a coburn type i am guessing from what i hear?

Saabman0508 11-11-2012 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSF (Post 55687229)
a coburn type i am guessing from what i hear?

I don't see him being nearly as physical as Coburn.

Johnny Hanson 11-11-2012 12:22 PM

Jay bouwmeester

ARed 11-11-2012 12:23 PM

I've always seen his style as a bit Kuba-esque and with decent mobility. Mind you, I think Patty has more of a tendency to put pucks on net than Kubz.

"Kuba" shouldn't be taken negatively here though, Fil the Thrill was a pretty effective Dman at times.

ReginKarlssonLehner 11-11-2012 12:39 PM

Jake Gardiner.

JayBo is also a good comparison in terms of style.

Saabman0508 11-11-2012 12:51 PM

All this Kuba talk got me thinking and I am sorry if this somewhat derails the thread, but I am curious.

If he continues to develop like this and given Kuba's success playing beside Karlsson, would you prefer to have PW play with EK or are people still set on the Cowen-Karlsson pairing?

ReginKarlssonLehner 11-11-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saabman0508 (Post 55688567)
All this Kuba talk got me thinking and I am sorry if this somewhat derails the thread, but I am curious.

If he continues to develop like this and given Kuba's success playing beside Karlsson, would you prefer to have PW play with EK or are people still set on the Cowen-Karlsson pairing?

Looooooooooool.

Cowen=Weber lite

Wiercioch= Kuba lite(Which I don't even see as being a good comparison)

Just cause Kuba was the best all-around defender we had at the time doesn't mean the next person to roll up similar to him should jump over a guy ten times better.

I see Wiercioch as being perfect for Ceci.

simplefan 11-11-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot karlsson (Post 55687879)
Jay bouwmeester

Yes!! More like the Florida Panthers version. If he develops nicely from this year out, he will be a really interesting defenseman behind Karlsson. He reminds me a lot of Mcdonagh in his skating, passing....all EXCEPT his defensive game.

simplefan 11-11-2012 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg (Post 55686771)
I see a Kuba.

Sorry, I don't see one. I never liked Kuba. Yes, he was much stronger last year but he virtually has no offensive game and no vision. Kuba is a pretty safe defenseman but he can't be counted on 5vs5, 5vs4 to provide offense.

PW was once highly touted, even more highly ranked than Karlsson. He always was a long term project and he still is. I still think he has Top 4 potential and can be a important part of our backend.

lafite 11-11-2012 02:12 PM

Has he filled out at all? He was always really skinny. If he gained 20 lbs or so from a few years ago, that would be nice.

Minister of Offence 11-11-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplefan (Post 55690619)
Sorry, I don't see one. I never liked Kuba. Yes, he was much stronger last year but he virtually has no offensive game and no vision. Kuba is a pretty safe defenseman but he can't be counted on 5vs5, 5vs4 to provide offense.

PW was once highly touted, even more highly ranked than Karlsson. He always was a long term project and he still is. I still think he has Top 4 potential and can be a important part of our backend.

Maybe in certain places, but I'd say Karlsson was more highly regarded in most places.

If PW is ever going to be a top 4 Dman in the NHL they'll need to make sure he's a high end Dman in the AHL before he comes up. Which will probably take him the season to earn. Some seem to think that PW is moving ahead of Boro for the spot....that'll be determined in camp and even then, it may still be Boro's.

MoreGore 11-11-2012 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lafite (Post 55691183)
Has he filled out at all? He was always really skinny. If he gained 20 lbs or so from a few years ago, that would be nice.

This is what I have always said, he was a beanpole before, now he is close to 210. This makes all the difference to his game.

WhiteLight 11-11-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minister of Offence (Post 55691197)
Maybe in certain places, but I'd say Karlsson was more highly regarded in most places.

If PW is ever going to be a top 4 Dman in the NHL they'll need to make sure he's a high end Dman in the AHL before he comes up. Which will probably take him the season to earn. Some seem to think that PW is moving ahead of Boro for the spot....that'll be determined in camp and even then, it may still be Boro's.

disagree. He doesn't need to be dominant in the AHL to be NHL ready.

He could be probably be a decent 3rd pair guy right now, and maybe work his way up to top 4 eventually.

Kezia 11-11-2012 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplefan (Post 55690619)
Sorry, I don't see one. I never liked Kuba. Yes, he was much stronger last year but he virtually has no offensive game and no vision. Kuba is a pretty safe defenseman but he can't be counted on 5vs5, 5vs4 to provide offense.

Kuba has a solid play making ability. Dont know what your talking about.

HSF 11-11-2012 04:12 PM

like murray said weir seems like one of those players who will do better in the nhl than the ahl

playasRus 11-11-2012 04:30 PM

If Weircoch developed into Kuba, and Ceci became even just a top 6 Dman, our Defence would be ridiculous. in 2-3 years.

It would take a lot of luck.

simplefan 11-11-2012 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benny FTW (Post 55694937)
Kuba has a solid play making ability. Dont know what your talking about.

Sorry, I didnt mean to be hyperbolic. Kuba is a good puck-moving D, smooth and safe. However Kuba has a hard shot that he almost never uses. True, Kuba can pass but I almost never saw him do an exceptional offensive play except that slap pass sometime 2 season ago. He does not showcase the goal scoring he showed in Tampa.

I'm kinda ignorant but I do not think Kuba can run offense. He's just a good all-around defenseman and I will be kinda disappointed PW becomes like him.

jbeck5 11-11-2012 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplefan (Post 55690619)
Sorry, I don't see one. I never liked Kuba. Yes, he was much stronger last year but he virtually has no offensive game and no vision. Kuba is a pretty safe defenseman but he can't be counted on 5vs5, 5vs4 to provide offense.

PW was once highly touted, even more highly ranked than Karlsson. He always was a long term project and he still is. I still think he has Top 4 potential and can be a important part of our backend.

Kuba isn't a flashy offensive player. He can't stickhandle for ****. His slap shot can be ok, but it takes forever to get it off that he would usually just fake shoot and slap pass it in down low in the corner. That being said, he had very good vision and poise for a defenseman. He was always a safe bet to make a nice productive outlet pass. He could easily rack up the secondary assists which mean he was somewhat of a catalyst offensively from the back end. I think you make him seem way worse offensively then he is.

What you just described is incapable of reaching 0.5ppg from the back end, but kuba can, and has several times...twice with us. When i read what you wrote, i would expect lundin/methot production...like 7 points in 65 games, but kuba is way better than that.

He averaged 4-5 goals, and 32-33 assists per 82 games with us for about 36-38 points. That's almost as offensively productive as gonchar has been for us.

He wasn't flashy, but he was productive offensively. I would love if wiercioch could be a 30-40 point(per full season) D for us like kuba was.

His career stats are 792-69-254-323 which easily translate to 79-7-25-32 average. That is very good for a guy who can't be "counted on to produce offense" lol that's like, way above average offensive numbers for a D who played half his career in the dead puck era.

He's not a karlsson,corvo, letang, etc that's for sure. I get what you're saying there. He doesn't have flash. That being said, he's not an anton "puck is a live grenade" volchenkov either. He can be trusted to carry the puck out and make a nice pass that can create offense. Guys like andy sutton can't. I just want to make sure you don't think he's in that league either because he's way better then that.

Minister of Offence 11-11-2012 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows (Post 55694763)
disagree. He doesn't need to be dominant in the AHL to be NHL ready.

He could be probably be a decent 3rd pair guy right now, and maybe work his way up to top 4 eventually.

Didn't say dominant.

He's actually playing at a pretty high level right now but he'll have to hold it for a while.

jbeck5 11-11-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minister of Offence (Post 55697269)
Didn't say dominant.

He's actually playing at a pretty high level right now but he'll have to hold it for a while.

This. I like his game right now, and if he can keep that up, i would be more than happy to see him come up and play in the NHL. He hasn't looked out of place in the 7 games he's played up here anyway.

I'm in the camp that would call him up before boro. I see borowiecki as being the better defensively, more physical player. But i see wiercioch as being better offensively, with a higher ceiling. Wiercioch has also been with binghamton for longer honing his skills. He's also played more NHL games. That combined with the fact i see our D corps in the NHL needing more help on the offensive side of things then defensive. With gonchar gone in 6 months, who is the next best offensive guy behind karlsson? Will Ceci be ready? Wiercioch fills a role. On the defensive side of things we have cowen, phillips, methot, lundin(whos probably gone soon too) with borowiecki, gryba, blood, and claesson as defensive Ds in the AHL. We have way more defense first guys then offense first guys in the entire system making wiercioch more valuable. Unless you know of corvo type Ds hitting UFA next summer that we can sign. I'd rather work wiercioch into that role this year, and ceci added the year after. With karlsson and gonchar providing the bulk of offense from the back end, we could ease wiercioch into the second pp role and 3rd pairing with not much pressure at the end of the year. then when gonchar leaves, he will have a good chunk of games of experience going into next year.

I would like to add borowiecki and blood/claesson/gryba(or whoever is a Defensive D and shows to be ready) when our defensive guys leave. One of methot,phillips,lundin will be gone in a year. that will open the spot for borowiecki. The gonchar leaving should be the spot for wiercioch. But i don't want to put him in a position where he's the number 2 goto guy offensively behind karlsson in his rookie year. Better to give him 20-30 games at the end of this year so next year it will be slightly easier to handle the pressure. Ease him into the spot in other words.

You cant bring in Borowiecki, wiercioch, and ceci all in at the same time and expect to succeed. I wouldn't want more then 1 rookie d per year ideally. Bring up wiercioch this year, borowiecki next year, and ceci the year after, giving him one year of AHL.

Emerica 11-11-2012 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saabman0508 (Post 55687721)
I don't see him being nearly as physical as Coburn.

I thought he was sarcastic.


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