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-   -   Value of: Does Boston have "odd" wingers? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1281979)

fedfed 11-11-2012 11:14 AM

Does Boston have "odd" wingers?
 
I've seen this talk on this board, just want to make things clear.
Bruins fans, does your team have more wingers than you need with Horton healthy?
Boston has Seguin, Lucic, Peverley, Marchand and Horton. I think Lucic, Seguin and Marchand are going nowhere, but what about Peverley and Horton? Is it possible that one of them will be traded. If yes, what are your needs?

1972 11-11-2012 11:16 AM

Always thought Peverley was a center

Joel Ward 11-11-2012 11:21 AM

Both Peverley and Seguin are natural centers so I don't think its as much of a "winger problem" as it is an abundance of centers.

nmbr_24 11-11-2012 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfed (Post 55686675)
I've seen this talk on this board, just want to make things clear.
Bruins fans, does your team have more wingers than you need with Horton healthy?
Boston has Seguin, Lucic, Peverley, Marchand and Horton. I think Lucic, Seguin and Marchand are going nowhere, but what about Peverley and Horton? Is it possible that one of them will be traded. If yes, what are your needs?

The obvious answer is that if there is a trade to be had that upgrades the team without subtracting from it, of course anyone without a NTC is available.

I doubt Horton gets traded for two reason, he was a key scorer and the team was much better offensively with himthan without him. I know from watching the 2011 cup finals that might not be all that apparant,but it is true especially without a guy like Recchi there.

Also I don't see a team giving up a heck of a lot for Horton until he proves he is completely healed from the 2 concussions and the Bruins won't trade him for less than he is worth.

Peverley( I forget whether he has a NTC or not) would be available for an upgrade and that means that the Bruins need to get close to a 60 point player who can play center as well as wing.

I imagine the Bruins would add to a deal involving either player to upgrade, but I don't see the Bruins accepting a quantity for quality type of deal for either player. It just doesn't make sense for them to downgrade at wing, they would be looking to upgrade at wing in my opinion.

finchster 11-11-2012 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy Regier (Post 55686701)
Always thought Peverley was a center

Peverley has been playing winger for Boston, usually with Chris Kelly playing centre. However, it changes because many of our forwards can play centre.

The Bruins are going to try and keep everyone, but if someone has to go it's probably Horton because his expiring contract and injury concerns. It's ashame because he is one of my favourite players on the team.

fedfed 11-11-2012 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmbr_24 (Post 55686815)

I imagine the Bruins would add to a deal involving either player to upgrade, but I don't see the Bruins accepting a quantity for quality type of deal for either player. It just doesn't make sense for them to downgrade at wing, they would be looking to upgrade at wing in my opinion.

But even if they trade Peverley for a bette W/C that doesn't change the number of top-6 players they have and it looks like they have one too many.

I think they'd trade the 7th forward for a D of equal quality, no?

nmbr_24 11-11-2012 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfed (Post 55686901)
But even if they trade Peverley for a bette W/C that doesn't change the number of top-6 players they have and it looks like they have one too many.

I think they'd trade the 7th forward for a D of equal quality, no?

If they trade Peverley, who is the 3rd line winger to take his place?

Seguin may end up being a 100 point type of guy one of these days, but the Bruins score by committee and one of the reasons they are usually pretty successful is that they have a 3rd line that can compare with a lot of teams 2nd lines. They are very deep and that is their strength, not the top end talent by the forwards.

If you take out Peverley the Bruins have to replace him with a rookie or an AHL player or go out and make another trade to bring in a winger.

The D that the Bruins would be interested in if we are talking about the Caps are the Caps top guys, do the Caps want to trade their any top guys for Peverley and a prospect? I doubt it.

WildcatMapleLeafs28 11-11-2012 12:00 PM

You could say they have too many top-6 fowards, that's a better statement. They have the above mentioned plus Krejci and Bergeron.

PADevil3034 11-11-2012 12:05 PM

If the Bruins were somewhat interested in dumping a center/winger, the Devils would definitely be interested, especially if that forward has top6 capacity. Would Tallinder+ be fair value?

fedfed 11-11-2012 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmbr_24 (Post 55687109)
If they trade Peverley, who is the 3rd line winger to take his place?

Seguin may end up being a 100 point type of guy one of these days, but the Bruins score by committee and one of the reasons they are usually pretty successful is that they have a 3rd line that can compare with a lot of teams 2nd lines. They are very deep and that is their strength, not the top end talent by the forwards.

If you take out Peverley the Bruins have to replace him with a rookie or an AHL player or go out and make another trade to bring in a winger.

If they trade Peverley they still have Bergeron and Krejci at C and Seguin, Lucic, Horton and Marchand. The point is they have 5 top-6 wingers (or 7 top-6 forwards). I think they could trade one for some help on D.

Talking about who can they get from the Caps for Peverley, what about Orlov? I don't know though. I know my fellow Caps fans are gonna jump on me for just mentioning Orlov on this board.

Dr Quincy 11-11-2012 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfed (Post 55688351)
If they trade Peverley they still have Bergeron and Krejci at C and Seguin, Lucic, Horton and Marchand. The point is they have 5 top-6 wingers (or 7 top-6 forwards). I think they could trade one for some help on D.

Talking about who can they get from the Caps for Peverley, what about Orlov? I don't know though. I know my fellow Caps fans are gonna jump on me for just mentioning Orlov on this board.

As has been stated, the B's philosophy is to roll 4 lines with offense spread out on the top 3 and even the 4th chipping in more O than is usual. Trading Peverly weakens them there, and as has also been stated, they don't have anyone ready to take his spot.

I like Orlov a lot, and it's totally fair value, but that just creates a hole at W and a surplus at D.

In short, the B's, right now, do NOT have an extra winger. After they see Spooner, Knight, another year of Caron, etc MAYBE they decide they have too many in the offseason but not right now.

fedfed 11-11-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Quincy (Post 55688533)
As has been stated, the B's philosophy is to roll 4 lines with offense spread out on the top 3 and even the 4th chipping in more O than is usual. Trading Peverly weakens them there, and as has also been stated, they don't have anyone ready to take his spot.

I like Orlov a lot, and it's totally fair value, but that just creates a hole at W and a surplus at C.

In short, the B's, right now, do NOT have an extra winger. After they see Spooner, Knight, another year of Caron, etc MAYBE they decide they have too many in the offseason but not right now.

Ok, thanks, that's the balanced and explained response I've been looking for.

Dellstrom 11-11-2012 01:07 PM

That's not exactly a bad problem to have... Our needs are top-4 defensemen and a top line sniper.

hlaverty06 11-11-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dellstrom (Post 55689023)
That's not exactly a bad problem to have... Our needs are top-4 defensemen and a top line sniper.

Does Tallinder or Andy Greene from NJ interest you?

nmbr_24 11-11-2012 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfed (Post 55688351)
If they trade Peverley they still have Bergeron and Krejci at C and Seguin, Lucic, Horton and Marchand. The point is they have 5 top-6 wingers (or 7 top-6 forwards). I think they could trade one for some help on D.

Talking about who can they get from the Caps for Peverley, what about Orlov? I don't know though. I know my fellow Caps fans are gonna jump on me for just mentioning Orlov on this board.

The actual value might be ok, but it doesn't make as much sense when you realize that the Bruins don't have a top line with a 100 point center, a 50 goal wing and a 30 goal wing. They have two lines that are better than almost every team's 2nd line but not as good as many first lines offensively so they need to spread out the scoring on 3 lines unless they are going to upgrade to the point where they have 100 point and 50 goal guys. That is a must in order to be one of the better teams in the league.

The Bruins never even got started in the playoffs last year, but Horton and his offense may have meant an added 2 or more goals over the course of that series and if that happened, they just might have won it even though the team didn't show up.

It comes down to needing the offense to move on in the playoffs, the Bruins averaged less goals per game without Horton than with him and it wasn't good enough to get the team through the tough times when they are tired or facing a tough team, the simple math of the situation dictates that they improve, not subtract offense.

Oates2Neely 11-12-2012 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlaverty06 (Post 55690049)
Does Tallinder or Andy Greene from NJ interest you?

Not really, neither is an upgrade on Chara Boychuk Seidenberg or Hamilton. No chance Boston trades Peverly for a dman who would be on their 3rd paring,, not to mention McQuaid & Ference are a very solid 3rd pairing.

b in vancouver 11-12-2012 12:40 PM

Unless Caron can consistently show some of the flash he had towards the end of last year I'm of the opinion that they need another top 6 forward capable of 25 goals that they can slot onto the 3rd line. I really think this team misses Savard ( can't be replaced) and when Horton went down last year it really changed the dynamic and forced some of the players into rolls they aren't as suited for.

Ideally they would add a physical winger.

Liferleafer 11-12-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherCorruption (Post 55686775)
Both Peverley and Seguin are natural centers so I don't think its as much of a "winger problem" as it is an abundance of centers.

Abundance of centers....geez....stop bragging!! LOL

Dr Quincy 11-12-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlaverty06 (Post 55690049)
Does Tallinder or Andy Greene from NJ interest you?

Not really. B's have 5 dmen and Hamilton can be the 6th. While they may prefer to have another vet dman in there instead for the playoffs, they'd only do some deadline deal for a pick or prospect, not a roster F (unless you are talking about someone like Caron).

Dellstrom 11-12-2012 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b in vancouver (Post 55713155)
Unless Caron can consistently show some of the flash he had towards the end of last year I'm of the opinion that they need another top 6 forward capable of 25 goals that they can slot onto the 3rd line. I really think this team misses Savard ( can't be replaced) and when Horton went down last year it really changed the dynamic and forced some of the players into rolls they aren't as suited for.

Ideally they would add a physical winger.

Definitely... Savard wasn't, (and in our defense, couldn't) be replaced, and it's not exactly easy to cherry pick a 90 point player who's also a top-3 passer in the game off of a tree. Horton is also a huge chemistry player and always comes up in the clutch, and that's something we really needed late into the season last year and more specifically in the playoffs...

I think Caron could definitely hit 20 goals in an 82 game season if he gets enough ice time. Maybe not next year/next 82 game season, but eventually, sure. He got his trust last year when he was our best player when we were a .500 team, and he looks ready to go... He's great defensively, and although he isn't too physical, he has a big body and isn't afraid to use it to his advantage. Claude really likes a guy like that, definitely helps to be friends and training buddies with Bergeron, Claude's wet dream.

A Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin Lucic-Krejci-Horton top-6 is great, but Bergeron, Krejci, and Horton are all pretty brittle, and you can't exactly expect them to be healthy all season long. We definitely need a top-line sniper anyway, a physical 2nd liner would be a great addition as well, slot him on the 3rd line and there's no surprises when someone goes down.

Same goes for defense, McQuaid and Ference are both pretty injury prone, and Hamilton is a rookie. We really suffered with McQuaid out, imagine is Seidenberg or Chara goes... A 1st/2nd pairing tweener would be a great addition as well.

KovalSNIPE 11-12-2012 04:31 PM

I've always had a general feeling Horton isn't going to be re-signed. Too many top-6ers in Krejci, Lucic, Seguin, Marchand, Bergeron, with Caron and Spooner in the system (top 6 potential) that will be on the roster full-time sooner rather than later. Also, they have everyone else signed to contracts passed this year so I believe they won't be able to afford him.

Analyzer 11-12-2012 04:45 PM

Horton could be done, but I'm not a Boston fan and don't really follow that kind of stuff.

At least, it doesn't seem like he'll be the same player.

Frankie Spankie 11-12-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherCorruption (Post 55686775)
Both Peverley and Seguin are natural centers so I don't think its as much of a "winger problem" as it is an abundance of centers.

Not really. Chiarelli's smart and wanted to load up on centers because you never know when a top 6 center goes down and you can't scramble to fill the void. He acquired centers who can also play on the wings for that very reason.

Let me settle this for people because people who don't watch the Bruins seem to have no idea where anybody plays in Boston... I keep seeing Seguin and Peverley mentioned as centers but they almost never play center in Boston unless they're filling in for injury. So here's our lines when all are healthy:

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin
???-Kelly-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton

That ??? will probably be Jordan Caron. Horton is still a big question mark. If Horton's out, put another ??? on the top line. Surely you can't see that as an abundance of wingers.

bb_fan 11-12-2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfed (Post 55686901)
But even if they trade Peverley for a bette W/C that doesn't change the number of top-6 players they have and it looks like they have one too many.

I think they'd trade the 7th forward for a D of equal quality, no?

One too many top six forwards?

Is this a serious question?

dafoomie 11-12-2012 07:51 PM

Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin
Caron-Kelly-Peverley
Paille-Campbell-Thornton

Where is the odd winger? If anything they need one as Caron has been unimpressive in the AHL and they don't have anyone else ready to step up.


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