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-   -   Value of: Johan Franzen (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1282353)

Nyquist 11-12-2012 03:50 PM

Johan Franzen
 
With Brunner, Nyquist, and Tatar all ready for a spot and Detroit's abundance of forwards, Franzen might be expendable. Just wondering what teams would give up for him. Detroit needs are #1 defenseman, solid defensive defensemen in general, and maybe a scoring winger. Detroit is NOT in a rebuild mode so he won't be dealt for picks or prospects however.

Vankiller Whale 11-12-2012 03:58 PM

Aging, lifetime contract, herp derp.

If you want to work out a 3-way involving Luongo, you know who to call.

Otherwise teams that might be interested would likely be New Jersey. Or how about San Jose for Boyle? It's unlikely you'd get a prime age number 1 for a package centred on Franzen, but Boyle might make sense.

Nyquist 11-12-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55717965)
Aging, lifetime contract, herp derp.

If you want to work out a 3-way involving Luongo, you know who to call.

Otherwise teams that might be interested would likely be New Jersey. Or how about San Jose for Boyle? It's unlikely you'd get a prime age number 1 for a package centred on Franzen, but Boyle might make sense.

I wouldn't expect a #1 prime aged dman for Franzen at all, even if there were one available. More of a guy who can solidify the defense for a couple years as Smith develops.

KingCanadain1976 11-12-2012 04:09 PM

Not saying i would but would Robert Scuderi be fitting ur needs?

Reaper45 11-12-2012 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 (Post 55718205)
Not saying i would but would Robert Scuderi be fitting ur needs?

If the lockout goes all season Scuds, along with Penner and Gagne will be a free agent.

Analyzer 11-12-2012 04:48 PM

Isn't Franzen a scoring winger ?

Not getting a number 1 dman for Franzen.

Yes We Cam 11-12-2012 04:52 PM

How about something around michigan native, Tim Gleason?

HTT3* 11-12-2012 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles (Post 55717783)
With Brunner, Nyquist, and Tatar all ready for a spot

None of those guys will be scoring 30+ goals per season any time soon. I also wouldn't expect them to have an immediate impact in the playoffs like Franzen gives.

Red Wings have taken a step back in the D position, but they still have a good enough squad to make some noise in the playoffs if Howard stays healthy.

Red Wings are a better team and have a better chance at bringing the Stanley Cup home with Franzen than without him.... unless someone is willing to seriously overpay to get him.

The Zetterberg Era 11-12-2012 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles (Post 55717783)
With Brunner, Nyquist, and Tatar all ready for a spot and Detroit's abundance of forwards, Franzen might be expendable. Just wondering what teams would give up for him. Detroit needs are #1 defenseman, solid defensive defensemen in general, and maybe a scoring winger. Detroit is NOT in a rebuild mode so he won't be dealt for picks or prospects however.

I like all those prospects a lot but the hate for Franzen in Detroit is pretty laughable. He is the leading goal scorer the last several years. He is far more consistent than the haters would have you believe outside of a huge slump two years ago after the all-star break. He has huge playoff numbers, those guys aren't putting him in danger.

The only reason I even buy him being moved is if they do go into a full rebuild or his comments about not having fun really upset management. For the right upgrade I could see it, but his value is really tough to establish. My guess is he is one of those rare guys around here whose value is slightly more in GM circles than it is around here. He is a 30 goal scorer who has a 3.95 cap hit and most of the big years in real pay already paid for. If the league does get their penalty for the original signing team, he becomes more attractive.

The Zetterberg Era 11-12-2012 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 (Post 55718205)
Not saying i would but would Robert Scuderi be fitting ur needs?

Scuderi fits a big need, but probably not enough for Franzen. Throwing in a Loktionov, I don't know what it would take. I don't think the Kings have a huge need for Franzen either. But the Wings could use a tough stay at home pk guy like Scuderi.

Nyquist 11-12-2012 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Analyzer (Post 55719129)
Isn't Franzen a scoring winger ?

Not getting a number 1 dman for Franzen.

Yes he is. I was thinking something along the lines of Franzen in a package for Ryan if he were available. Yeah it felt weird typing that part. And I didn't say Franzen would fetch a #1. I listed that as a need.

Nyquist 11-12-2012 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HTT3 (Post 55719375)
None of those guys will be scoring 30+ goals per season any time soon. I also wouldn't expect them to have an immediate impact in the playoffs like Franzen gives.

Red Wings have taken a step back in the D position, but they still have a good enough squad to make some noise in the playoffs if Howard stays healthy.

Red Wings are a better team and have a better chance at bringing the Stanley Cup home with Franzen than without him.... unless someone is willing to seriously overpay to get him.

I never said they would be. But if they come in and live up to their potential, Franzen could definitely be expendable. Franzen has done little to nothing in the last two playoffs.

Nyquist 11-12-2012 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 55719453)
I like all those prospects a lot but the hate for Franzen in Detroit is pretty laughable. He is the leading goal scorer the last several years. He is far more consistent than the haters would have you believe outside of a huge slump two years ago after the all-star break. He has huge playoff numbers, those guys aren't putting him in danger.

The only reason I even buy him being moved is if they do go into a full rebuild or his comments about not having fun really upset management. For the right upgrade I could see it, but his value is really tough to establish. My guess is he is one of those rare guys around here whose value is slightly more in GM circles than it is around here. He is a 30 goal scorer who has a 3.95 cap hit and most of the big years in real pay already paid for. If the league does get their penalty for the original signing team, he becomes more attractive.

Franzen consistently puts up near 30 goals a year, but how he puts up those goals is the exact opposite of consistent.

KingCanadain1976 11-12-2012 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 55719507)
Scuderi fits a big need, but probably not enough for Franzen. Throwing in a Loktionov, I don't know what it would take. I don't think the Kings have a huge need for Franzen either. But the Wings could use a tough stay at home pk guy like Scuderi.

i agree there isnt a big need for him this season and other trades would be needed to make this work. It opens up a spot on our blueline for one of serveral king d propects. Hickey Muzzin Campbell borderchuk etc all ready for nhl action imo. The kings have 2 lws that will be free agents next year where i want to have frazen step in. One (hoping gagne) would be traded. Also possible brown goes back to rw and frazen would step in there allowing the kings to trade williams for a 1st round pick next year as columbus has ours. As far as adding lokti i think if u add a 3rd i would be ok with it not sure my fellow fan would trade him ( hes really doing well in the ahl right now )

The Zetterberg Era 11-12-2012 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles (Post 55719875)
Franzen consistently puts up near 30 goals a year, but how he puts up those goals is the exact opposite of consistent.

This is a part of the myth of that huge slump a couple years ago. The longest he went last year was eight games, he did have some assists during that stretch.

His month by month total

October: 4 goals
November: 6 goals
December: 5 goals (this was the month with the eight games, also no multi goal games)
January: 4 goals
February: 5 goals
March: 2 goals (He was banged up in March and missed time)
April: 3 goals

Only three multi goal games.

That is a little more consistent than people let on. He does rely on the PP a little too much, so when that swoons he has some trouble.

Reaper45 11-12-2012 09:54 PM

As a Kings fan I wouldn't do any of that.
Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 (Post 55720025)
i agree there isnt a big need for him this season and other trades would be needed to make this work. It opens up a spot on our blueline for one of serveral king d propects. Hickey Muzzin Campbell borderchuk etc all ready for nhl action imo. The kings have 2 lws that will be free agents next year where i want to have frazen step in. One (hoping gagne) would be traded. Also possible brown goes back to rw and frazen would step in there allowing the kings to trade williams for a 1st round pick next year as columbus has ours. As far as adding lokti i think if u add a 3rd i would be ok with it not sure my fellow fan would trade him ( hes really doing well in the ahl right now )


KingCanadain1976 11-12-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45 (Post 55727171)
As a Kings fan I wouldn't do any of that.

i respect ur right to say it Not every king fan sees my way of thinking hell i doubt many do. each fan has there own way of thinking for the way there team should be run

jroc86 11-12-2012 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles (Post 55719835)
I never said they would be. But if they come in and live up to their potential, Franzen could definitely be expendable. Franzen has done little to nothing in the last two playoffs.

He didnt play 3/4 of the games because Shane Doan destryoed his face and ankle ligaments with 1 hit.

He didnt do **** last year because in a 5 game series he was line matched against Weber and Suter and Datsyuk wasnt yet recovered from injury.

Franzen can be a lazy sloth at times - and for a 225lb guy he hits terribly ... but dollar for Dollar aside from Alex Burrows hes probably been the most effective goal scorer in the show these last 4-5 years.

The Zetterberg Era 11-12-2012 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jroc86 (Post 55727807)
He didnt play 3/4 of the games because Shane Doan destryoed his face and ankle ligaments with 1 hit.

He didnt do **** last year because in a 5 game series he was line matched against Weber and Suter and Datsyuk wasnt yet recovered from injury.

Franzen can be a lazy sloth at times - and for a 225lb guy he hits terribly ... but dollar for Dollar aside from Alex Burrows hes probably been the most effective goal scorer in the show these last 4-5 years.

Datsyuk missed two open nets where Franzen was the primary assist and he had a goal that was 1/10 of a second too late. Those are the breaks and that was why it was a short series. But he wasn't the no show a lot of people made him out to be. Most of the team played bad save Z. Heck Emmerton was one of their better players.... That is how you know it was a bad series.

He is pretty cheap considering what he produces. The amount of GWG's and PPG he has the last couple years are completely overlooked. I know the PP was bad last year, but I shutter to think about what it would have looked like without him.

InjuredChoker 11-12-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics (Post 55719217)
How about something around michigan native, Tim Gleason?

I'd like to see something like that. Gleason would fill a big need, guy who can pk, play physical, knows what defense is.

The Zetterberg Era 11-12-2012 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kemisti (Post 55729017)
I'd like to see something like that. Gleason would fill a big need, guy who can pk, play physical, knows what defense is.

Fine, but what else are they adding on top of Gleason?

Trading Franzen for that kind of player seems a stretch even while Gleason is one of my favorite stay at home D-man. We do know he would probably waive his NTC without a seconds hesitation to come to Detroit so that isn't a big concern.

pdd 11-13-2012 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HTT3 (Post 55719375)
None of those guys will be scoring 30+ goals per season any time soon. I also wouldn't expect them to have an immediate impact in the playoffs like Franzen gives.

"Gave" might be more accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jroc86 (Post 55727807)
He didnt play 3/4 of the games because Shane Doan destryoed his face and ankle ligaments with 1 hit.

He played no better before the injury. He literally decided to allow Kyle Turris to have a free shot on net, resulting in the first goal of the series.

Quote:

He didnt do **** last year because in a 5 game series he was line matched against Weber and Suter and Datsyuk wasnt yet recovered from injury.
Ah, Franzen was line matched against Weber and Suter... but so was Zetterberg's line. Z and Hudler didn't seem to have trouble offensively against Nashville's D or against Rinne; why is it such a big deal that we have to make excuses because Franzen flopped again?

Oh, I know. It's because everyone who loves Franzen justifies his massive RS absences and general laziness on the ice with "But wait for the playoffs! Mule will kick it in gear!"

Can't use that excuse anymore.

Quote:

Franzen can be a lazy sloth at times - and for a 225lb guy he hits terribly ... but dollar for Dollar aside from Alex Burrows hes probably been the most effective goal scorer in the show these last 4-5 years.
Hudler was more effective last year per minute total and ES, and led the Wings in ES goals. Franzen was comparable in ESG/60 to Drew Miller.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 55728227)
Datsyuk missed two open nets where Franzen was the primary assist and he had a goal that was 1/10 of a second too late. Those are the breaks and that was why it was a short series. But he wasn't the no show a lot of people made him out to be. Most of the team played bad save Z. Heck Emmerton was one of their better players.... That is how you know it was a bad series.

The team's top four forwards were Z, Dats, Hudler, and Helm. Franzen is probably a couple notches below that.

Quote:

He is pretty cheap considering what he produces. The amount of GWG's and PPG he has the last couple years are completely overlooked. I know the PP was bad last year, but I shutter to think about what it would have looked like without him.
GWG is a worthless stat. And without Franzen, Hudler likely ends up in that spot intead and is scoring a bunch of PP goals and assists rather than serving as the 2nd unit's point man for most of the season.

pdd 11-13-2012 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 55729083)
Fine, but what else are they adding on top of Gleason?

Trading Franzen for that kind of player seems a stretch even while Gleason is one of my favorite stay at home D-man. We do know he would probably waive his NTC without a seconds hesitation to come to Detroit so that isn't a big concern.

Franzen and Quincey/White for Larose, Gleason, and a 1st?

Crazy8oooo 11-13-2012 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datsyuk Dangles (Post 55719787)
Yes he is. I was thinking something along the lines of Franzen in a package for Ryan if he were available. Yeah it felt weird typing that part. And I didn't say Franzen would fetch a #1. I listed that as a need.

Ryan...as in Bobby Ryan??

DKQ 11-13-2012 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 55729083)
Fine, but what else are they adding on top of Gleason?

Trading Franzen for that kind of player seems a stretch even while Gleason is one of my favorite stay at home D-man. We do know he would probably waive his NTC without a seconds hesitation to come to Detroit so that isn't a big concern.

If either team is adding in a Franzen/Gleason swap, it would be Detroit


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