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-   -   Lockout thread #2: mediation done - no progress (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1282377)

402 11-12-2012 05:15 PM

Lockout thread #2: mediation done - no progress
 
First thread http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...266215&page=40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK13 (Post 55716653)
What gets me is the constant attempted grabbing at fan sympathies.

The minimum NHL salary is ten times the median household salary in the United States. You want me to feel sorry that 11% of what you make will go into escrow for a couple years?

I mean, an owner win has always been in the fans best interests. In every lockout. The most famous PA win in major sports (courtesy of Don Fehr) broke the game of baseball so completely that I don't even see the point in chearing for anyone but a scant few teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Forever (Post 55707953)
I'll be sad if we lose all these players too, I've grown an attachment to some of them and I hate some of them, but I'll come running back to the Oilers, not the players on the Oilers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ejams (Post 55707941)
I think we'll watch whatever hockey is on sportsnet/cbc/tsn etc.. When the Barons were on SNW I was as invested as if it were an Oilers game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue And Orange (Post 55708325)
The Oilers are the only reason ill be running back to watching hockey whenever it returns. All those years of sucking and to see our team blossom.

If I was a fan of the Flamers, I'd sooooo be swearing off the NHL.

But as of right now, I refuse to buy tickets or merch for 2 years. The NHL told me (a fan) to suck it, I'll tell them to **** off twic!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Replacement (Post 55710371)
Sure I would, and I'd prefer it, and I'd relate to the players and know that they're not some primadonna ballerinas that require countless millions just to lace em up.

We're all sick and tired of the spoiled babies act that the NHLPA has become. I think maybe 10% of fans if that are sympathetic of the players "needs".

The trouble is when I watch a game now I'm happy if the guy I'm watching isn't some petulant *******. Its refreshing actually to see normal guys playing the game in the AHL, at U of A, etc.

I don't miss idiots like Ovechkin one bit. Stay away. Good riddance.

If I never saw 500 of these players again I could care less. NHL should threaten to go with replacement players. At a price commensurate with that product I'd support it.
Its the countless 5-10M/yr dinks out there that make me refuse to support NHL hockey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 55716941)
I'm one of those guys that's kind of notorious with my group of friends for having a hate for certain players, and when I go to games I tend to ride them like crazy. I have a feeling I'm going to be spending more time yelling at players for being jerks then actually watching the next game I go to. Especially Whitney. I like to sit behind the opposing bench so I can hollar at them, but I think I'm going to get tickets behind the Oil bench next time just to yell at Whitney and Horcoff for being knobs during this lockout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustrock (Post 55717747)
NBA much more entertaining than the NHL right now (obv), but found myself enjoying the coaching and roster changes and some surprising teams.

[QUOTE=Oilerz;55718431]
Quote:

Originally Posted by SK13 (Post 55716653)
What gets me is the constant attempted grabbing at fan sympathies.

The minimum NHL salary is ten times the median household salary in the United States. You want me to feel sorry that 11% of what you make will go into escrow for a couple years?

I mean, an owner win has always been in the fans best interests. In every lockout. The most famous PA win in major sports (courtesy of Don Fehr) broke the game of baseball so completely that I don't even see the point in chearing for anyone but a scant few teams.[/QUOTE]

Not argueing, but how did it break baseball?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue And Orange (Post 55719285)
Fehr told the panel that three issues remain to be solved: the split of money, player contract rights and who pays for the damage caused by the lockout

Who pays for the damage caused by the lockout. How about both sides split 50-50 on it for being greedy pigs!!

[QUOTE=Blue And Orange;55719343]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilerz (Post 55718431)

It created fan apathy and destroyed small market teams, most notably the Montreal Expos. Since the strike, the Expos a decade of slow and agonizing death.

Mark my words, the consequences of what we saw in baseball post strike will be eerily similar if the 2012-13 NHL season is cancelled. People are naive to think the fans will come back in droves after this lockout ends.

[QUOTE=Master Lok;55719587]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue And Orange (Post 55719343)

Then so be it. If that happens, it happens. Crying doesn't make a difference. some teams will fold, fewer players in the NHL. It's not exactly a bold prediction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK13 (Post 55719679)
Fehr and co. kept a salary cap out of baseball. Now the Yankees and the Red Sox and their ilk can outspend any other franchise, by amounts that make the 2003 Oilers look like they were on par with the 2003 Rangers, and it's made it virtually impossible for some teams to make the playoffs.

I mean, the whole reason the whole A's/Moneyball thing happened was because Oakland couldn't afford to compete and needed to find another way to win. And even then, no championships and no long-term success to rival the big spenders.

Old thread is full, some posts from the previous thread are above

(something happened near the end of the last thread which messed up the quotes above )

402 11-12-2012 05:23 PM

Interesting article today on tsn
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409346
They make it sound like a deal can be rapdily completed once they reach agreements on certain issues

Also fehr and daly are going to chat tonight during the HHOF thing maybe they will schedule new talks. i feel, as some have said, the sides are not as far as they seem or say thry say they are

Blue And Orange 11-12-2012 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 402 (Post 55719877)
Interesting article today on tsn
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409346
They make it sound like a deal can be rapdily completed once they reach agreements on certain issues

Also fehr and daly are going to chat tonight during the HHOF thing maybe they will schedule new talks. i feel, as some have said, the sides are not as far as they seem or say thry say they are

I still stand by my prediction that we will have a season starting in mid-December. Hopefully that prediction comes true, but with each passing day, that optimism slowly fades.

I sincerely hope both sides aren't stupid enough to kamikaze the entire season just because of both sides can't decide on how to divide 3.3 billion dollars of revenue. The NFL and NBA saved their seasons last year, hopefully the NHL can do the same.

molsonmuscle360 11-12-2012 05:48 PM

They were saying on Hockeycentral I think on Friday that there was a rumor going around with the owners (McClean was the one talking) that Fehr is planning to just string the owners along and then try to nuke the salary cap. If that happens we are going to see a drastically different league when hockey eventually comes back, but at that point I think it will be 2014 that we see hockey. But with a lot fewer teams.

Blue And Orange 11-12-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 55720507)
They were saying on Hockeycentral I think on Friday that there was a rumor going around with the owners (McClean was the one talking) that Fehr is planning to just string the owners along and then try to nuke the salary cap. If that happens we are going to see a drastically different league when hockey eventually comes back, but at that point I think it will be 2014 that we see hockey. But with a lot fewer teams.

Again, its a rumor. Doubt it will be that bad. Losing a season will cause discontent among the PA membership just like last lockout when the PA booted out Goodenow.

Matt Ryan 11-12-2012 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 55720507)
They were saying on Hockeycentral I think on Friday that there was a rumor going around with the owners (McClean was the one talking) that Fehr is planning to just string the owners along and then try to nuke the salary cap. If that happens we are going to see a drastically different league when hockey eventually comes back, but at that point I think it will be 2014 that we see hockey. But with a lot fewer teams.

Fewer teams means fewer jobs means that isn't going to happen. It would be against the NHLPA's interest. Sure, higher paying jobs for a few, but also less jobs total.

molsonmuscle360 11-12-2012 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue And Orange (Post 55720609)
Again, its a rumor. Doubt it will be that bad. Losing a season will cause discontent among the PA membership just like last lockout when the PA booted out Goodenow.

I hope so, because right now it really looks to me like the PA leadership is only working for the guys with big contracts. I really don't think they care about the Ryan Jones' and Dwight Kings of the league. It's all about the Sidney Crosby types and even the Shawn Horcoffs and Scott Gomez types who are massively overpaid.

402 11-12-2012 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue And Orange (Post 55720389)
I still stand by my prediction that we will have a season starting in mid-December. Hopefully that prediction comes true, but with each passing day, that optimism slowly fades.

I sincerely hope both sides aren't stupid enough to kamikaze the entire season just because of both sides can't decide on how to divide 3.3 billion dollars of revenue. The NFL and NBA saved their seasons last year, hopefully the NHL can do the same.

I hope your right, people sometimes ask why im optimistic about the situation the two sides havent really given us anything to make us truely optimistic, but like i said before you never know in bargaining, we dont know which meeting will be the one where a breakthrough happens thats why i think its key they keep talking and meeting because these meetings are what keep my fading optimism alive :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 55720507)
They were saying on Hockeycentral I think on Friday that there was a rumor going around with the owners (McClean was the one talking) that Fehr is planning to just string the owners along and then try to nuke the salary cap. If that happens we are going to see a drastically different league when hockey eventually comes back, but at that point I think it will be 2014 that we see hockey. But with a lot fewer teams.

I have heard rumors before about fehr bringing up the salary cap, obviously i dont knoe but i just dont think it will happen but yes i agree if it does this season and maybe more will be lost

molsonmuscle360 11-12-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huge for Nuge (Post 55720727)
Fewer teams means fewer jobs means that isn't going to happen. It would be against the NHLPA's interest. Sure, higher paying jobs for a few, but also less jobs total.

I just meant if Fehr goes after the cap, the NHL will just cancel the season at that point, and if it really drags out to more than one season then I think at least 4 teams will be lost in the states within 3 or 4 seasons.

jadeddog 11-12-2012 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 55720803)
I just meant if Fehr goes after the cap, the NHL will just cancel the season at that point, and if it really drags out to more than one season then I think at least 4 teams will be lost in the states within 3 or 4 seasons.

oh for sure, there will be 2-4 teams move out of their current cities within a few years if we lose this entire season.... hell, there is a pretty good chance of that happening even if they started playing hockey again tomorrow to be honest

molsonmuscle360 11-12-2012 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog (Post 55722503)
oh for sure, there will be 2-4 teams move out of their current cities within a few years if we lose this entire season.... hell, there is a pretty good chance of that happening even if they started playing hockey again tomorrow to be honest

Phoenix is done for sure, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see another one of the southern teams go to. I just hope it's not Carolina or Dallas, I think those two places really have potential, Carolina especially.

A lot of people don't think the NHL can run a 30 team league with most teams being profitable, but I think with a few teams located in markets that either have been untapped like the second Toronto team and Seattle as well as cities that have lost teams in the past that really shouldn't have like Quebec and Hartford. You move the bottom 4 money making teams to those cities and you make the NHL a lot more stable.

OilerNut* 11-12-2012 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadeddog (Post 55722503)
oh for sure, there will be 2-4 teams move out of their current cities within a few years if we lose this entire season.... hell, there is a pretty good chance of that happening even if they started playing hockey again tomorrow to be honest

That's the problem, the NHL is a fringe league and the players are trying to compare the NHL to the MLB/NBA.

Matt Ryan 11-12-2012 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 55722643)
Phoenix is done for sure, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see another one of the southern teams go to. I just hope it's not Carolina or Dallas, I think those two places really have potential, Carolina especially.

A lot of people don't think the NHL can run a 30 team league with most teams being profitable, but I think with a few teams located in markets that either have been untapped like the second Toronto team and Seattle as well as cities that have lost teams in the past that really shouldn't have like Quebec and Hartford. You move the bottom 4 money making teams to those cities and you make the NHL a lot more stable.

I dont think dallas or carolina will go because they are (some of) the fastest growing cities in NA in terms of high tech, high paying jobs. Dallas is really three cities in one and is becoming the new business capital of America. Meanwhile, Charlotte is slowly gathering momentum and is about to rival Atlanta as the capital of the southeast. Of all places affected by the recession, I would rank those two cities close to the bottom of the list.

Barring ownership problems or lack of capital, I see those two cities as being solid long term investments. Think about all those kids who grew up watching Modano and Brind'amour coming to age.

Jimmi Jenkins 11-12-2012 07:41 PM

I have a new lockout conspiracy theory.

The Detroit Red Wings, well respect and great for a long time, but Detroit isn't much of a city anymore and they recently lost their franchise defenseman to retirement. So here's the theory.

The NHL is allowing the Wings to perfect the cloning process so they don't have to enter a new season without a Lidstrom. Makes as much sense as anything that's going on.

Tarus 11-12-2012 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 55722643)
Phoenix is done for sure, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see another one of the southern teams go to. I just hope it's not Carolina or Dallas, I think those two places really have potential, Carolina especially.

A lot of people don't think the NHL can run a 30 team league with most teams being profitable, but I think with a few teams located in markets that either have been untapped like the second Toronto team and Seattle as well as cities that have lost teams in the past that really shouldn't have like Quebec and Hartford. You move the bottom 4 money making teams to those cities and you make the NHL a lot more stable.

Carolina wouldn't move.

Brand new arena, passionate owner, and just obtained some secondary investors.

ales83fan 11-12-2012 10:24 PM

Gomez and Horcoff are the biggest victims of this lockout. Horcs is losing 5M this year.....and he will never sign as big a contract.....I hope!

Blue And Orange 11-13-2012 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ales83fan (Post 55727875)
Gomez and Horcoff are the biggest victims of this lockout. Horcs is losing 5M this year.....and he will never sign as big a contract.....I hope!

For a guy who experienced a lost season first hand, I would hope that his balls were as big as his contract and find the courage to stand up and end this madness once and for all.

But then again,he's hit the jackpot already, so what does he have to lose? 5 mil is chump change.

Baggers 11-13-2012 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue And Orange (Post 55731019)
For a guy who experienced a lost season first hand, I would hope that his balls were as big as his contract and find the courage to stand up and end this madness once and for all.

But then again,he's hit the jackpot already, so what does he have to lose? 5 mil is chump change.

5 mil is chump change for a player?

Horcoff was set to make 6 mil this year - he makes considerably less the next two years and I doubt he sees more than 1 mil/year in salary for the rest of his career.

Blue And Orange 11-13-2012 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangers (Post 55731329)
5 mil is chump change for a player?

Horcoff was set to make 6 mil this year - he makes considerably less the next two years and I doubt he sees more than 1 mil/year in salary for the rest of his career.

Well considering his contract is 33 million in 6 years. If this season is lost, its 28 million in 5 years. Still a massive contract and a lot more than what an average joe like myself is making.

Hopefully he isn't stupid enough to let a whole season go kamikaze and sacrifice a year of pay.

okgooil 11-13-2012 11:49 AM

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409406 check this interview with Mark Reechi. It is amazing when you hear what he says that more player don't have their heads on their shoulders like him.

Fixed to Ruin 11-13-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okgooil (Post 55736451)
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409406 check this interview with Mark Reechi. It is amazing when you hear what he says that more player don't have their heads on their shoulders like him.

Where it all falls apart for me with Mark Recchi is that he owns the Kamloops Blazers with Tom Gaglardi who also owns the Dallas Stars.

Also I thought he was busy making medical diagnoses? :sarcasm:

okgooil 11-13-2012 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devils4cup (Post 55744699)
Where it all falls apart for me with Mark Recchi is that he owns the Kamloops Blazers with Tom Gaglardi who also owns the Dallas Stars.

Also I thought he was busy making medical diagnoses? :sarcasm:

Just means he understands both sides. If anything that makes Reechi's comments hold more weight.

Fixed to Ruin 11-13-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okgooil (Post 55745777)
Just means he understands both sides. If anything that makes Reechi's comments hold more weight.

I disagree. I am 100% not on the players side however I don't think someone who is in business with an NHL owner holds any weight in my eyes. If Shanahan made the same comments i would feel the same way since he is close with the upper management of the league.

I just feel that Recchi should just keep his big yap shut and let the process play out rather than give his opinions on a negotiation he has absolutely no stake in.

402 11-13-2012 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okgooil (Post 55736451)
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409406 check this interview with Mark Reechi. It is amazing when you hear what he says that more player don't have their heads on their shoulders like him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devils4cup (Post 55748051)
I disagree. I am 100% not on the players side however I don't think someone who is in business with an NHL owner holds any weight in my eyes. If Shanahan made the same comments i would feel the same way since he is close with the upper management of the league.

I just feel that Recchi should just keep his big yap shut and let the process play out rather than give his opinions on a negotiation he has absolutely no stake in.

His comments will not impact negotiations obviously but i think what he's saying is very true and some players should listen up, I welcome his comments he's basically saying they should end the lockout so him speaking out couldnt possibly be a bad thing.
There are No plans to meet at this time which sucks, lets hope talks get going again in a hurry

700 posts :)

SK13 11-13-2012 07:32 PM

The more respected ex-players coach the current crop to get serious and encourage a deal, the better.

Mark obviously has perspective and it's pretty silly to suggest he doesn't because he's a partner with a current NHL owner. There are quite a few NHL players (current and former) who are friends with Gagliardi. Recchi's been through this twice and knows the economic reality of running a hockey team better than most players.


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